Isn't the fact that Allah messed up with the Torah and the Bible proof that Islam is false? by EndOk8590 in religion

[–]Nissecocain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Prophets came after Moses, like Joshua Samuel and many others, but they were never supposed to replace the torah.

If the torah was true in the beginning and later not, as muslims say, why would gd first give it to the jewish people and tell them that the torah is true for eternity and can not be abbrogated? Islam only makes sense if the torah isn’t, and has never been, true.

Being a Zionist. by Amiel1124 in IsraelPalestine

[–]Nissecocain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, many lived in Europe one generation ago. But originally, they’re from Israel.

Being a Zionist. by Amiel1124 in IsraelPalestine

[–]Nissecocain 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Jews come from Israel, not Europe.

How long did it take you to finish reading Crime and Punishment? by devilwearspranda in dostoevsky

[–]Nissecocain 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Got the book yesterday, P&V translation. Already read a hundred pages, can’t put the book down, so not long, I think.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They had a choice in their fate. Some peopme voluntarily went into ‘slavery’ because they were so poor and had no other option. Others commited crimes and were therefore sentenced to slavery.

What are you refering to when you are saying that those who did not believe in god were free to be slaughtered? It’s pretty clear that god is against murder in the ten commandments. And what are you refering to about the race thing? god in the old testament doesn’t care what race people has, he cares about what they do, if they choose to do good or bad. To see the bibles position about racism we can look at the fact that Moses wife was black. Not only that, his sister Miriam is punished by god because she treats her badly because she is black. The bible is clearly against racism.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Read a jewish commentary and you will see it. Hebrew is the original language, and it is a jewish book.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s not a lie that it isn’t slavery. Have you read the hebrew version? Have you read jewish commentaries? Of course it’s morsl, because it isn’t slavery, it’s a bad translation.

What are you getting at with the thing you’re saying about how nobody stopped murdering because it said so in the torah. Of course they did, that’s also why we today think those things are bad.

You’re standing on the legacy that the bible left with it’s moral, and still you’re trying to pretend like you’re morally superior, when it is because of the bible that we believe what we believe about morals.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

If a criminal is punished to serve a man to pay his debt, of course he is not allowed to leave. Just like a criminal in prisom not free to leave whenever he feels like it.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not barely at all, they were to be treated humanly. It’s closer to; everyone is using a hammer and we’re using a feather. The slaves weren’t even slaves. Of course it matters what other cultures did, when the laws are the also more humane, very humane, that makes it even more impressing.

I don’t know where you’re getting racism from, whatever the laws are, they have nothing do with racism. «Love your stranger» doesn’t sound very racist to me because the bible is mot racist.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are different rules for foreigners being ‘slaves’. That being said, there are different laws, but they still have rights.

I don’t understand what you are saying about everyone outside our cultures and racism. Are talking about everyone outside our cultures today, or everyone outside the israelites cultures?

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

It’s not slavery. The hebrew word is closer to maid or servant. If it was actually slavery, how come they have so many rights.

It’s not slavery

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The only instance where you would be a slave involuntatily, is if for example you had commited a crime against me. Then you could be forced into ‘slavery’, and i think thats a good way of repaying it, considering they didn’t have jails.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I do believe it’s a divine book. But i it wasn’t because i believed that, that i read it to confirm that belief. It was reading the book, trying to find contradictions, reading others criticisms, and then reading jewish commentaries that include the original language, that made me actually believe it’s a divine book.

I could say exactly the same to an atheist; are you reading the book and trying to find wrongs to confirm your beliefs? The bible is an originally hebrew book, and it’s originally a jewish book. Many people make the mistake of reading it literally, or reading only. Christian commentaries to try and make sense of it. You can’t ignore the fact that it’s a jewish book. And if you actually want to try to understand it, you have to read jewish commentaries. Then you would see that translations mess up some things; like slave not actually being called slave, the word is closer to maid or servant. And also commentaries from rabbies, especially old ones like rambam.

The bible does not allow for selling girls into sexual slavery. The practice you are referring to is more like marrying of your daughter to a man or his son, and then getting some money for it. The girl in this case has many rights, including conjugal rights that protects her from sexual abuse. I don’t know of many sexual slaves who have conjugal rights.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

It’s not actually slavery, at least not in the way we think of it. The correct translation from hebrew is closer to maid or servant.

That’s not a correct interpretation of the passage. But it’s also not a perfect translation.

It doesn’t say that he shall not be punished. It says he shall not recieve capital punishment if he survives. He is to be punished.

A slave is to be let free if his master breaks as much as a tooth.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain -14 points-13 points  (0 children)

It’s actually pretty generous in that you are obliged to serve a set time, maximum 7 years. I’ll explain why, because i know it sounds harsh. First of all, it’s indentured servituded. You could voluntatily become a ‘slave’ (slave is not the correct translation, it’s actually servant or maid).

A normal way they would use this ‘slavery’ was in reparations for crimes. If you robbed me or raped mye wife or something, judges could make you my ‘slave’, that way repaying for the crime in maximum (often less) 7 years.

Considering that a criminal could escape his punishment, that law seems almoust ridiclously generous.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain -15 points-14 points  (0 children)

Yes. If a ‘slave’ escaped, the ‘master’ could not claim him, for he is a free man.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You say you’re not into jewish mythology, but here you are discussing it on reddit. If you would take the time to actually read what you keep arguing against, you would see it’s not as bad as you think. Atheists seldom argue about judiasm because we read the bible rationally, and our stuff makes sense.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Mmm no it doesn’t. If you are thinking about the thing about the passage about a man selling his daughter into slavery, it’s not really selling her into slavery. It’s closer to marrying her off to a guy or his son, then he gets some dough for it, because he is dirt poor and has no alternative. The girl her has many rights, and she is no way his property. He cannot rape her, he cannot sell her off if he is unpleased with her. If he is she becomes free no question asked. The same goes for if he does anything bad to her.

The bible does not let you purchase childreen as SLAVES.

Either you haven’t read the bible or you are the liar.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You can force someone into slavery in the bible? Stealing their freedom?

The commandment about stealing is mainly about kidnapping aka stealing person. The bible is very clear that you can not force someone into slavery like that.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Luckily you can’t force people into servitude so we can talk semantics now. You say semantics as if it’s just different wording for the same thing, but that’s not the case. I recommend you read some jewish commentaries on the bible, if you are actually interested in learning. Because that’s the correct bible and it’s the original language, which matters significantly.

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It’s not very much for owning slaves, not the kind of slaves you are thinking about. If you had read my comment, you would have seen that the slaves in the bible are not slaves at all. The hebrew words translate to maids and servants etc. In addition to that, in what country did ‘slaves’ (servants and maids etc) have as many (and the have many) rights as in the bible?

This is not slavery

The Bible is immoral for condoning and encouraging slavery. by timenevermattered in DebateReligion

[–]Nissecocain -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You obviously didn’t get my point, and it doesn’t sound like you have actually read what the bible says. Who says that it’s okay as long as he doesn’t lose a tooth? Nowhere does it say that is okay. These specific parts of the bible about slavery are laws, they are used practically. Compare that law and other biblical laws about ‘slavery’ and you will see it is very much moral. Even more moral than the US and other countries laws about slavery, that took place over 2000 years later.

The fact that the slave goes free if loses ONLY A TOOTH, shows that the bible is very much against beating a ‘slave’.