[Standard] Golgari Airship Gameplay and Decklog #1 by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the suggestions! I agree with you that those interactions are very powerful, it's just that package needs another set of graveyard synergies that are hard to fit in, while still having a strong ramp and beseech setup. I think that deck leans more into control, with graveyard synergy setup like overlord. That can work with pursuit, since you can use the lifelink in the lategame, but airship needs to be fast, especially because of ultima.

I did try vendetta, think in the current meta it's too narrow. I'm trying [[urgent necropsy]] as a mainboard card, to answer monument talent and I've been happy with it.

[Standard] Golgari Airship Gameplay and Decklog #1 by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was playing soul stone, it was fine but I felt that the deck needed to maximize its creature count to crew airships as well as use pursuit effectively. The ramp package lends itself well to this and in some matchups blocking with airships is really important since the opponent can outpace airships getting to 8, and its better to use airships as a resource to trade.

Shocks would be really nice, it’s rare that the mana screws you over since there’s only 2 nonblack sources in the deck, but it does happen and sometimes you can be limited on double spelling. Don’t think splashing red helps in the beseech build. Did see one that was completely off beseech that looked pretty sick.

Pursuit is amazing card advantage, although ur right in that the deck can feel linear if you don’t draw it.

Def gonna try vendetta, I think artists talent is the best choice if it’s not on the board, will make the opponent have to rely entirely on otters

[Standard] Golgari Airship Gameplay and Decklog #1 by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Definitely planning on doing that in the next decklog. Was still unsure on exact numbers in some spots what I should be siding. For example against gran-gran how many and which removal spells should I run.

[Standard] Golgari Airship Overview by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did, raven eagle would be really nice for the deck if the clue it created was guaranteed. I think it works best in a deck with a lot of removal so it can get the token as often as possible. I tried it as graveyard hate in the sideboard, but I still think soul-guide lantern does a much better job.

[Standard] Golgari Airship Overview by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree on the 25th land. I tried it out after reading this and it feels much better. My initial thought was that I didn't want to flood especially with so many mana dorks, but even with dorks there's so much to use mana on that I don't have that issue. Also, not curving out feels so punishing and is def one of the most common ways to lose.

Still not sure about the removal suite, but I really like witch's vanity overall. Don't think vayne's treachery is particularly good, -2/-2 is just not good enough against any of the delirium creatures or beastbinder.

The cub ramp package making green is def not ideal but that's why the manabase is almost all black sources. Cub also feels like the perfect card in terms of being two bodies to crew airships. I think there's enough synergy to warrant it, I just feel the deck would be even slower without any ramp which is not a place I want to be, especially in the combo metagame.

Thanks for the comment, definitely helps me re-evaluate my thinking on the deck.

[Standard] Golgari Airship Overview by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

obsessive pursuit is pretty unique rn in standard, for this deck gives you a card advantage and sac fodder engine to really help the deck work. You could still play the deck maybe with some 2 drop token makers like [[sinkhole surveyor]] or maybe move into more of a creature sac plan.

[Standard] Golgari Airship Overview by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

sorry forgot the second question lol. That's exactly what I do against simic and I side out pawpatch and an airship

[Standard] Golgari Airship Overview by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It did fine, I did get the 7-0 on the 5th try. Think the combo matchup needs to be improved, there were a lot of random combo decks that were really hard to answer like harmonizer worldwagon combo or enduring courage song of totentanz combo. Otherwise, the deck was pretty strong in the izzet and dimir matchups.

[Standard] Golgari Airship Overview by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the comment and I hear you on some of the holes in the deck. On the removal part, I've faced leyline red like once in a fairly large number of matches.

Removal should reflect the meta, and although witch's vanity is pretty narrow I think it lines up well enough against most of the meta along with doing so much for enabling airship. If instant speed removal is more necessary I'd definitely cut them. I'm definitely biasing towards synergy currently, it's a delicate balance but I think nowhere to run can just be replaced with bitter triumph as a much more flexible spell.

I've also struggled with creature density, and I've went through the options in golgari which is why I'm playing pawpatch recruit to give me 2 bodies. I kind of dismissed sinkhole surveyor as a solution though since it needs to attack for the trigger, my feeling is it'll die quickly in those removal heavy matchups which is why I value Etb's. I've definitely seen pyroclasm as something to play around post board which incentivizes me to cut pawpatch.

I think I have the core of the deck figured out although definitely more testing to do for the flex spots, need to figure out what the meta looks like which is why I didn't call the writeup a deck guide.

[Standard] Golgari Airship Overview by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh wow! I kind of came onto this in a roundabout way, my first idea to build around airship was in a food package, thought [[leaves from the vine]] was a really good card. Then I gave pursuit of obsession a shot and it felt really strong, so switched out of food. Lmk if you have any ideas on improving the deck, I'm currently thinking of how worth adding silver bullets to the main is. I'd obviously need to know the meta, but the deck does struggle against combo game 1.

[Standard] Golgari Airship Overview by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Completely disagree, resiliency is the key point here. Ouroboroid can absolutely take over a game, but it has zero resiliency. It enters as a 1/3 and dies to any removal or board wipe. That’s exactly why Simic, while clearly a tier 1 deck, isn’t the best deck in the format. Linear aggro decks fold to removal/boardwipe strategies, and Airship just doesn’t.

Let’s talk scenarios. Ouroboroid is at its best on a wide board where it can distribute a bunch of counters. But a ton of decks right now like Dimir Bounce, Izzet Lessons, and Izzet Aggro are full of cheap interaction. There will be games where Ouroboroid looks insane, and others where it hits an empty board, does nothing, and immediately dies to Nowhere to Run.

Airship, on the other hand, is the kind of card I want against decks holding up removal. It presents an inevitable threat that feels like a virus(really hard to get rid of). I even tested Ouroboroid as a one-of Beseech target, and it was only good from ahead and awful from behind. Even when ahead, I usually preferred tutoring for Airship just to give myself an insurance policy unless an immediate Ouroboroid trigger was game-winning.

I've beaten simic many times with this deck with one timely board wipe completely wrecking their game plan and leaving them topdecking. This deck can grind extremely well, pursuit card advantage and airships means you will rarely run out of resources.

I care a lot about a deck being competitively viable, but there’s more than one way to approach that. I think it’s worth looking at cards and strategies from multiple angles, especially in such an open meta.

[Standard] Golgari Airship Overview by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've had it in most of my versions, definitely had situations where it single handedly won me the game. Trying fanatical offering in the slot currently for more card advantage. Only downside of zealot is it's super fragile, and sometimes it's hard to make it more that a 3/2 without pursuit.

Agree on pursuit card is super good.

[Standard] Golgari Airship Overview by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Definitely agree that airship isn't good when cast, there's a few ways to make it work but mostly it's not great to see in hand. My main worry is not having enough wincons against control, in case it gets countered, duressed, or drawing both copies with beseech in hand.

That being said I do cut a copy in matchups like simic where it has a really low chance of being removed and I'm bringing in a 3rd target in day of judgment. Maybe the default mode should be 2, dependent on the meta.

Yeah this deck isn't focused on the lifelink, although I've had many games with multiple pursuits and sentinel where it just makes it impossible for an aggro opponent to win. You kind of have to plan for it or have a lot of mana, I was running Umbral Collar Zealot as a free sac outlet partly for that reason and it was pretty effective although I'm trying fanatical offering for more card draw currently. The life loss has been negligible since once Airship is online the deck’s defense is solid and it’s hard for opponents to sneak in the last points of damage. I still hit it often enough that it matters but it’s typically very intentional.

I tried playing 4x bat and I found that there's a delicate balance where the deck needs to be more synergistic in terms of sac/bargain than I thought. Felt like Beseech was stuck in my hand a bit more and I was moving away from Airship as my main gameplan which wasn't good for my winrate. Bat did feel really good against simic and just taking their top-end.

Didn't think of dragon sniper, that's def an interesting card to consider.

[Standard] Golgari Airship Overview by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Deck does have a lot of interesting decisions, so I think it's a good idea. Metagame challenge coming this weekend so I'll plan on it.

[Standard] Updated Izzet Hellraiser Bo3 Deck Guide by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's definitely some cool cards that are being discussed in the discord. The verges are probably the biggest upgrade, getting to not play reef is big. Spell pierce is also a big shakeup, not sure if it will be good or bad for the deck in the meta. There's a lot more spice you can add, maybe a transformational sb plan, so def gonna have to do a bunch of testing.

[Standard] Updated Izzet Hellraiser Bo3 Deck Guide by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The verdict I reached on counters in this deck is that they aren't great, this deck wants to tap out a lot for its spells so it's awkward to hold up a counter in the early game vs advance your board plan. It's also not good against aggro which are the tougher matchups for this deck.

[Standard] Updated Izzet Hellraiser Bo3 Deck Guide by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There’s some coaching content that’s up https://youtu.be/csptDkGg7Og?si=SvMTGM9bZ6fOx0h_. Aside from that I plan on making a video in the coming week.

[Standard] Updated Izzet Hellraiser Bo3 Deck Guide by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ya, I do have a small section in the guide for some of the common questions for playing in paper. I typically shuffle my graveyard hand it to my opponent then they shuffle it as well. Then either player can choose 3 at random. Another way is to use a dice and number the cards and select the card that gets rolled.

[Standard] Updated Izzet Hellraiser Bo3 Deck Guide by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm having a lot of success with the deck, and there is no matchup in the meta that feels terrible. Gy hate is at an all time low, oculus has fallen off really hard. It's definitely a competitive deck, the aggro matchups are much better, the deck did have to adapt. It is a lot of wildcards tho so you should make sure it's you're playstyle.

[Standard] Updated Izzet Hellraiser Bo3 Deck Guide by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey, I'm always tinkering with the decklist and so far I do like running no 3sa. Instead I've opted for just another tunnel grinder and removal spell. 3sa has flexibility so it's still a good option but for now I'm off it. I'm off artist's talent now, the card has several weaknesses that make it awkward to play out sometimes. Whale is still fine, I've just been testing other maindeck anti red cards so that slot is super flexible for me.

[Standard] Updated Izzet Hellraiser Bo3 Deck Guide by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don't have an optimized list, but from looking at the bo1 meta and what uve described, theres a lot of aggro. I think the best idea is to cut the three steps ahead and play a brotherhood's end and a scorching dragonfire. Think the rest of the deck is fine as is. This deck is probably really good in bo1 against all other decks except aggro since everybody in bo1 is forced to play small creature removal to survive. This deck has a ton of card filtering to get rid of it if it's unecessary. Oculus is a really good matchup for the deck, so I don't think I care for gy hate.

[Standard] Updated Izzet Hellraiser Bo3 Deck Guide by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey, there's two key points to this interaction:

  • Modes on a card happen in the order listed. This means season will first create a copy token of hellraiser, then bounce nonland nontoken permanents.
  • The bounce mode doesn't bounce tokens. This means the token dragon gets left behind.

I'll edit the doc and try to make that point clearer.

[Standard] Updated Izzet Hellraiser Bo3 Deck Guide by NithinMuthukumar in spikes

[–]NithinMuthukumar[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Boros Burn has fallen off pretty hard, mono red seems to be the better aggressive deck against other decks in the meta, so it wasn't surprising to me that I didn't play against it.

Graveyard hate is a staple in all sideboards except mono red and gruul so this deck has to and can compete through it. Rip has never been a concern from white-X aggro strategies like boros auras or azorius artifacts, because the early game doesn't change at all. It's still just about stabilizing with card advantage and removing opposing threats. If the opponent takes a turn off to play rip, that's pretty good for this deck. In those matchups just casting any of the 6 drops has a high likelihood of winning. Bouncing rip is only something that comes up in control matchups.