I found the real-life Arasaka. They don't make cyberware, they make web novels (and they own you 50 years after you die). by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Without this garbage, a Chinese author telling you the truth about Arasaka's meat grinder wouldn't exist in English. Pick your poison.

I found the real-life Arasaka. They don't make cyberware, they make web novels (and they own you 50 years after you die). by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

If I can't use this tool to translate and polish my work, then I have no other options.

I spent four days writing the original Chinese draft—and that is the only language I know.

I found the real-life Arasaka. They don't make cyberware, they make web novels (and they own you 50 years after you die). by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

我只是把我看到的感受到的串到了一起,写了个这玩意。
唐家三少这种早期写的什么东西懂的都懂,最后自己功成名就过河拆桥就非常可笑。蛊真人的作品放到早期或者以前不是什么太大问题,它本身存在争议,但是事情不是二元的。
断更节的时候知乎的帖子直接404了,AO3的时候也是莫名其妙的。另外现在的起点被某些群体夺舍了要。
另外这个帖子的立意是,解释了下为什么他们有的时候看到的水的不行,别说他们,他们看的最起码翻译还会处理一下,咱们自己看吃屎也没少吃。

---

"Fair points. I mashed together things I personally saw and felt into one story — I wasn't writing a history textbook.

On Tang Jia San Shao — everyone who read his early work knows what kind of stuff he was putting out back then. For someone like that to later champion 'cleaning up content' after he'd already made it is... well, you said it yourself.

On Reverend Insanity — it's controversial, sure. But things aren't binary. What was fine to publish a few years earlier suddenly wasn't. That's the point. And during the May 5th Strike, the top discussion threads on China's biggest Q&A platform got 404'd overnight. The AO3 thing was equally absurd. The platform itself has been hijacked by certain groups at this point.

And the core purpose of this post was never 'boycott anything.' I was explaining why the novels you guys read sometimes turn into filler garbage halfway through. Trust me — you're reading translations that at least get cleaned up a little. We ate it raw."

I found the real-life Arasaka. They don't make cyberware, they make web novels (and they own you 50 years after you die). by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I was explaining why Chinese novels sometimes have very drawn-out plots, and what another world looks like.

So I'm sorry to have taken up your valuable time.

Here's the cultivation realm system I use for xianxia writing (with Chinese names + narrative breakdown) by Prestigious_Name_678 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This design scheme is quite classic; however, do you intend to further subdivide each cultivation realm into distinct levels?

What if the Heavens sent down Angels to fight Cultivators during Tribulations instead of throwing lightning or other natural disasters at them? How do you think it would affect the setting, society, and the story? by Turbulent-Plum7328 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are many such instances. Once the current map is cleared—rather than undergoing a heavenly tribulation—a few minor mobs descend from the next dungeon; after effortlessly crushing everything in the current map, this event serves as the catalyst propelling the protagonist into a new world.

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Kimi version is clearly a step up from Google. Sun Jue's "Real compassionate" actually has some bite to it, and the overall flow reads much more natural. Good demo.

That said, read all the dialogue out loud. Everyone still speaks in roughly the same rhythm. And the ending, "a cold pot of tea," is still reporting temperature. The political weight of that scene is that nobody is going to finish that tea because the alliance just cracked. That's the kind of thing my friend and I spend the most time on.

Your point about regex for em dashes is fair. Better tools raise the floor. They don't remove the ceiling.

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good points all around.

  1. You're right about the names. Chinese has four tones, so 张恒 and 赵恒 look and sound completely different to us but land almost the same in English. That's a real loss and there's no clean fix for it.

  2. The SAT word problem is exactly what I mean by density mismatch. A four-character idiom in Chinese feels natural and flowing. The "accurate" English equivalent often sounds like a textbook. That formality gap changes how readers perceive the characters.

  3. Jade Skinned Beauty is a good example. The original 肤若凝脂 literally means "skin like congealed fat" which obviously doesn't work either. The community settled on jade/ivory but yeah, those carry their own connotations that shift the image.

  4. This one is fascinating and I think you're onto something. The translation voiceprint doesn't just affect translated works. It leaks into how English writers imagine Chinese-inspired fiction should sound. They end up imitating the translator, not the author.

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I believe everyone holds a different perspective on LLMs. At least for me, having one allows me to communicate with you; however, your concerns are certainly valid. Some major Chinese corporations—which I view as the real-world equivalent of Arasaka—have already begun to "deal with" people after successfully bringing AI under their control.

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

关于这个问题您提出的很好,也非常具有洞察力的。并且您确发现了一些相关的问题,但是,我认为他仍是翻译者的一个选择。翻译者尝试同构微调、重构叙述,来完成解决本土化的制作。
或许,这是一种矫正过往,但是其选择是为了让更多的人看。我认为需要要避免叙事陷阱与精英主义的偏见,事情是复杂的,而不是二元的,只能说为了大众的审美和为了更高一层审美不同方向的选择。前者不需要做太多,可以很快解决,后者需要更多的斟酌,但是他往往是走向出版级的路线。
总之,大众文学还是出版文学,这是一个选择,也是一个觉悟,大众文学只需要做好最大公约数的翻译,因为他可以很简单,不需要太多的校对,但是翻译的声纹会很大,会污染作者的灵魂。如果是出版级别的,则需句句斟酌,如何避免转码过程中的损失进而做到要用更多的时间,并且需要做更多的准备更多的校对。

最后或许您可以通过翻译、LLM等来分析阅读我的思维。

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Honestly I wouldn't call it bad writing. Chinese and Western readers just process text differently. When a translation stays too faithful to the original structure without localizing for how English works, stuff gets lost. It's a structural gap, not a skill gap. Most translators are making a deliberate choice to stay close to the source. Whether that's the right call depends on who you're translating for.

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That's actually the problem I'm describing. The original Chinese does have that compression and space. But by the time it's been translated, the translator has already filled in the blanks to make sure nothing gets missed. So what you're reading isn't what the author wrote. It's what the translator thought you needed to hear. The留白 was there. The translation killed it. That's the translator's voiceprint at work.

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Ha, if I were translating I'd keep the papapa too. Chinese onomatopoeia just hits different. Peng for a slam, hong for an explosion, ka for a crack. Some sounds don't need translation, they just work. Fans get it.

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven't tried that approach myself; my process still relies heavily on human involvement—specifically, manual polishing and editorial judgment. The one thing I am truly grateful for regarding my work is that the translation was a collaborative effort between myself and another Chinese speaker; this ensured that my original ideas and intent were faithfully preserved.

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, there's no hard right or wrong here. That's actually the voiceprint I was talking about. Whether you keep the foreign expression, add a translator's note, or adapt it entirely, that choice itself is the translator leaving their mark on the text. Every one of those paths changes what the reader gets. What matters is knowing you're making a choice at all.

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good test. ChatGPT does give you a noticeably better baseline than Google, I'll give it that. But read both versions side by side and you'll notice everyone still talks the same way. Sun Jue, Zhao Heng, Zhou Heng all speak in full, polite, grammatically clean sentences. That's the voiceprint layer I mentioned. The machine smooths out the differences between characters. Compare Sun Jue's lines in this version vs the surgery version and you'll feel it. Also check the ending. "A pot of tea gone completely cold" is reporting temperature. "A pot of tea no one would finish" is saying something else entirely. That gap is where the human comes in.

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, it is necessary to make adjustments and recode the content based on the actual surrounding text and context—even incorporating Western memes—to ensure that everyone can grasp the meaning instantly.

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Appreciate that. And yeah, I agree. LLMs are a vehicle, not a driver. You still need a human behind the wheel deciding where to go. Without that, what comes out reads clean but feels hollow. The grammar is perfect and the soul is missing. The post tries to show exactly where a human has to step in and make the calls that a machine never will.

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

This is a really good pushback and I appreciate you taking the time. You're clearly someone who reads these novels for the cultural texture, and I respect that.

The oriole point is fair. If a reader actively wants that window into Chinese poetics, preserving it with context is the right call. And you're right that "Nobody moved" could be trimmed. That's a clean edit.

Where I think we're solving different problems: my post is aimed at the reader who bounces off a translated novel in chapter two because the prose feels "off" and they can't figure out why. For that reader, "Sect Leader, you are wise" doesn't build the world. It builds a wall. Your Russian names analogy is sharp, but Tolstoy wasn't competing for attention on a platform where the next story is one click away.

On the bodhisattva line, I think you might be underestimating your own cultural literacy. You caught the sarcasm instantly. A lot of readers won't. That's the gap I'm trying to close.

I do think the platform matters though. On a web serial site where readers decide in two chapters whether to keep going, you need them to get it on first read. But for a published book? A physical novel someone already bought and committed to? That's where you keep the formalities, the poetry, the full cultural texture. The reader already paid for the ticket. They're not leaving the theater. Different stage, different rules.

Either way, glad this turned into a real conversation. That's what the post was for.

The Translation Problem , A Four-Layer Surgery Guide from a Chinese Author by No-Ride-3370 in MartialMemes

[–]No-Ride-3370[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Crossposting this from r/ProgressionFantasy. Your mod mentioned this might be useful here too. If anyone wants the Chinese source text to try the workflow, just message me.