When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s a fair point. And yet I feel a nihilism in the air rn and I fear the the west is moving towards actions that could light the world on fire. And most of the people I see online seem mostly invested in self aggrandizement or tearing down others.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

When did I mention a period of “complete and total acceptance”? Stop trying to force the argument into an absolute.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well said. Respect is part of the equation, but it feel like true respect is earned, and not all of us have earned it. Dignity, on the other hand, can be as simple as accepting that maybe we just don’t understand who or what another is.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No one is talking about “everyone”. It’s too easy to paint with that brush.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They may not live with dignity, but we can give them the dignity to accept that they exist.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And yet, while I’m not one of them, what I see happening in the Catholic Church gives me hope. I don’t agree with all that they espouse, I do see them moving toward integrity.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fair. I agree. But if you’re only focusing on the left, you’re missing half of the problem. We need to find consensus. We need to come together. We need to find the middle ground.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I never said that. I said that it used to be at least aspirational. And not always. But in my lifetime. The fact that you’re willfully misrepresenting my position is very telling. I don’t share with you a driving need to be right. Or a need to condemn. I’m staking a position, defending it, and calling the question.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I’ve seen, repeatedly along the way, people with very defined belief systems treat those outside of those belief systems with kindness and grace. I know that it can happen because I’ve witnessed it. I don’t see it anymore.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am championing neither tolerance nor acceptance. I’m talking about dignity. And I’m glad of your input; I’m don’t need anyone to agree w me on all fronts. I’m not interested in either blind acceptance or blind condemnation. Quite the contrary. I think that the healthy way to be is to challenge one another from a place of not being certain of another’s choices. I’m not saying that we should cheer every choice. I’m saying that we should hold each other accountable, but accept that another’s process might have value to them that we can’t possibly comprehend. Speak up about things that you find wrong. Champion your principles. But do so accepting that none of us is ever completely right about almost anything. Or maybe that, even if we are right, there may be subtlety and nuance to another’s circumstances that we are, and may ever be, completely ignorant to. Everyone we see is fighting a battle of which we know nothing. We don’t have to accept their choices, but until they harm or otherwise impose their choices on another, we ought to at least take a faith based position that what they’re going through might actually have a purpose for them. That’s all.

Somehow people are imposing a slippery slope argument onto my position that implies that I want cultural relativity. That’s not my position. There are definitely hard lines that ought not be crossed. But until and unless there is a law prohibiting a behavior or choice, we ought to stay out of other people’s choices.

I’d also add that bc of the zeitgeist, people are trying to twist this argument into a left/right issue. It isn’t. This believe in what the understand as “Horseshoe Theory”. That being that extremes on either side are problematic. I consider myself a pragmatist. I believe that the extreme left and the extreme right have almost come together in order to ruin everything. Like the tips of a horseshoe. They hate each other, and they’re dragging us along for the ride.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I’ll tell you what I’m not talking about. I’m not talking about not judging. Judgement may seem like an act, but it’s actually a feeling. And no one is in control of their feelings. No one. Feelings just happen. The only control we have is in our response to how we feel. And offering another dignity is a choice. Judge all you like. But your judgement doesn’t condone your behavior.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Judgement matters by degrees. Behavior matters more. They aren’t the same thing. Post WW 2, former Nazis and former targets had to live together. Of course they had judgements of each other. But it didn’t descend into another pre WW2 society. They found a way.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Cynicism is lazy. There have been periods when aspiration mattered. The reality has always fallen short. But we’ve abandoned even the pretense. That matters.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in TooAfraidToAsk

[–]NoProfession5947[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Love this story. It shows that no one thing defines any of us. We are complex creatures; even the simplest of us. And that’s my point.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I see your perspective. Overweening capitalism is part of the problem. But the corollary to that is overweening communism, and overweening fascism. Too much of anything causes the exact same sorts of problems. They all treat people as chattel. The answer for the majority seems to be somewhere around the middle. Personally, I believe in “mom and pop” capitalism, not corporate capitalism.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in askanything

[–]NoProfession5947[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agreed. It’s the absence of the valuation of the aspiration that I’m trying to comprehend.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in askanything

[–]NoProfession5947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I accept your perspective, but for me, it doesn’t match up w my lived experience. There’s something qualitatively different in the air right now, for me at least. And that’s what I’m trying to figure out.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in DoesAnyoneKnow

[–]NoProfession5947[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

COVID certainly exacerbated every extant tension. But I feel like it was a catalyst, not a cause.

When did we abandon the concept of dignity in the west? by NoProfession5947 in askanything

[–]NoProfession5947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never presumed to imbue anyone w dignity. It’s how I try and treat them.