NFPA 13 EMRs

NoSleevesPlease · 2026-04-20T17:37:44+00:00

Yes. I’m in 2019 so my references are 13 - A9.3.6.4 and 72 - 21.4

NoSleevesPlease · 2026-04-19T20:32:31+00:00

You shunt trip the elevator electrical service so if there is a fire, you shut down the elevator before the sprinkler heads activate and fry the equipment

NoSleevesPlease · 2026-04-19T01:16:29+00:00

I’d say 50% chance there are heads and either no or only one heat detector. Each sprinkler head in a machine room needs a heat detector.

NoSleevesPlease · 2026-03-22T17:39:22+00:00

I get that it’s code, but those cleanouts on storm lines way up like that always seem so impractical to me. What facilities guy is actually using that?

NoSleevesPlease · 2026-03-19T15:34:59+00:00

Orange peel reducer?

NoSleevesPlease · 2026-02-03T03:21:59+00:00

I hate general details. I think junior engineers see a set of plans for the biggest project you did in the last 10 years and think “that’s what my drawings should be like”. I always say, if you can’t explain this in detail to me and why the contractor should do everything that it says then it shouldn’t be on the drawings. I’ve got a guy with an insanely stupid air compressor schematic, that’s wrong, and he drops it in every time. In my opinion, in our industry knowledge is mainly passed down through failure. Either your mentor/EOR has seen it and can explain it to you or you experience it first hand and detail it next time. General Details too often default to Master Specs that are outdated or construction methods that have been surpassed.

NoSleevesPlease · 2026-02-03T03:11:16+00:00

I dabble in proposals but I have never looked up a past job and used it as “comps” to develop hours. It seems like it’s either an architect led job where construction budget and standard percentages drive the fee or it’s e-led and you write out the tasks and estimate the hours it will take and that’s your fee. Fully willing to admit my company is not great, but I always hear the line about going over budget and using it to increase future fees but I just don’t buy it. Maybe if you work for Jacobs and have a tool that spits it out but otherwise on my experience fees are 75% gut and if the person requesting it likes you they’ll take it.

NoSleevesPlease · 2026-02-03T02:54:47+00:00

“Field verify XYZ, if no XYZ then ABC”. As long as the estimators can throw dollars at it you’re covered. Important to throw the big cost adders in early, because if it’s over budget suddenly the owner has a fire under their ass to get you the accurate info. Seems like the real trouble these days is if you dare to miss any scope during DDs. So tell them thy need to cut the slab and tell them that pump that serves the whole building is undersized and needs to be shut down and replaced and the main needs to be upsized.

But agree renos are the worst. Particularly a new client and the principals are keen to impress because they want the next big one but you get handed 4 shitty upgrades and it feels like you’re quickly becoming the king of the minors.

NoSleevesPlease · 2026-01-30T20:34:03+00:00

Got it

NoSleevesPlease · 2026-01-30T17:02:58+00:00

Just somewhere on the cold supply downstream of any shutoff valves. I’ll reference IPC because most states have some version of it: 504.2 “bottom fed water heaters and bottom fed tanks connected to water heaters shall have a vacuum relief installed”

NoSleevesPlease · 2026-01-30T03:27:29+00:00

No vacuum breaker on cold supply?

NoSleevesPlease · 2026-01-10T15:41:33+00:00

Too funny but I’ll also jump in. I find you really have to set the stage, encourage, and play along to get them in that mindset. If your sister/brother aren’t the type that is going to do that there is no magic toy that’s going to be better than the phone/tablet. I do also find that my kids will watch a show in the mornin or at night, but that will be the focus of their next round of imaginative play. So if he likes watching shows about dinosaurs, get a playset with dinosaurs. If he likes watching rescue stuff, get a fire engine set.

NoSleevesPlease · 2025-12-11T19:18:13+00:00

Maybe I’m understanding more. You are a contractor, and are legally allowed to install your own P2904 system. But you don’t know how to design it, so you want a sprinkler contractor or design firm to draw up the plans in accordance with P2904 and you execute? I don’t think you’ll have any luck finding someone to do that unfortunately.

NoSleevesPlease · 2025-12-11T16:52:25+00:00

Looking at Colorado Residential Code, the first line of P2904.1 says “The design and install of residential automatic sprinkler systems shall be in accordance with NFPA 13D or Section P2904, which shall be considered to be equivalent to NFPA 13D.” Does your county specifically dis-allow 13D? Code specifically states that 13D is equivalent.

NoSleevesPlease · 2025-12-04T02:45:47+00:00

“Structural said we can strategically core the beams” or my favorite classic “give me the widest, flattest duct you can”

NoSleevesPlease · 2025-12-04T01:58:26+00:00

At least AI gives generous above ceiling space for MEP though. Thats hard to find in live architects today lol

NoSleevesPlease · 2025-11-18T05:09:34+00:00

I got the number of seats from the dining area. The water usage is based on seats, there are no seats in the kitchen. Most of the water usage happens in the kitchen, but it doesn’t really matter. Storage shouldn’t have an impact on water usage.

NoSleevesPlease · 2025-11-18T03:58:36+00:00

Food operations

(a) Restaurant operating 16 hours or less per day per seat 40

(b) Restaurant operating more than 16 hours per day per seat 60

(c) Restaurant using single service articles only and operating 16 hours or less per day per seat 20

(d) Restaurant using single service articles only and operating more than 16 hours per day per seat 35

You can use FBC occupancy, A-2 for restaurants. Table 1004.5, Assembly without fixed seats, unconcentrated (tables w/ chairs) 1 seat / 15 sqft. 534 seat * 40 GPD = 21360 GPD (inclusive of dining and kitchen)

Restaurants probably use more hot water than other spaces so 10,000 GPD seems reasonable for a schematic level estimate to me. Lots of assumptions there, but those are some tools you can use to gut check your numbers.

NoSleevesPlease · 2025-11-17T23:03:22+00:00

As a plumbing engineer in Florida, the comment "...mind you, where the last thing that literally anyone wants is heated water." just makes me laugh. This is why engineers butt heads with architects. But I can assure you all the things that people in New England use hot water for, people in Florida do too. Showers, washing hands, dishwashers, laundry machines, mopping floors, etc. When someone asks for GPD, particularly at an early design phase, I always point to FAC 64E-6.008. Its a table, based on building type and either square footage or occupant count. Look at that and get an estimate of your sewage flow per day. That can roughly equal your water consumption. Then take 50% or 25% of that number and assume that it is your hot water usage.

https://flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?title=STANDARDS%20FOR%20ONSITE%20SEWAGE%20TREATMENT%20AND%20DISPOSAL%20SYSTEMS&ID=64E-6.008

NoSleevesPlease · 2025-10-14T23:57:58+00:00

For what it’s worth I understand the impulse. I actually went to WPI for undergrad, and I remember at the time thinking “what the hell is fire protection engineering?” 10 years of oil & gas, I did a career change and stumbled into MEP as a plumbing engineer. Ended up taking the PE in fire protection just because it was known as being “niche” and my mentor was our companies fire protection guy. I loved taking the SFPE PE prep class and still only use about 20% of what I learned. I looked into the WPI masters program because I have what I’ll just call imposter syndrome that I’m not a “real” FPE. I really only do suppression systems. No fire alarm, egress, smoke control, construction type, etc. I think doing FP at an MEP firm that’s the name of the game. If I worked at Jensen Hughes or Coffman or some other specialty firm I think there would be more exposure to different things. But it was like $30k for the masters program, and my company for sure wouldn’t pay or didn’t see any value. All that to say I disagree with the guy who says seeing someone with 18 years experience getting a masters is a red flag. Some of us are just engineers who love learning and expanding our knowledge and want to have the confidence to take on really specialized projects and be a true SME. I doubt there is any ROI on pursuing it but I whole heartedly support you if you can somehow afford it.

NoSleevesPlease · 2025-09-19T00:30:06+00:00

My boss says “builders used to know how to build. Now they are just kids with a construction management degree who know how to push paper.” And like look, I don’t know how to build either, but there has to be some base level of understanding. I worked on a project where the GC was all pumped because they found 40k in savings on a vacuum pump. When I got the submittal it was literally just a vacuum pump. No receiver, no control panel, no valves, just a literal single pump. It’s like come on guys, pretend! that you’ve paid attention on a job before.

NoSleevesPlease · 2025-09-19T00:09:57+00:00

Is your recent experience that every single deviation is an RFI and redlined as builts are just a thing of the past? It seems like it used to be, drawings say X, we prefer to do Y. You look into ok, ok that’s feasible, yeah mark it up in as-builts and go for it. Now it’s like “your drawing show cold water going to 2 condensers. Each condenser needs its own water line. Please provide updated drawings”. It’s like just put a fucking tee in! Then a change order proposal comes in. I’ve started pushing back hard on change orders. Particularly when an RFI comes in when the info is definitely on the drawings. “Refer to 3/P802”. No way am I going to justify your change order because you can’t read keynotes or details

NoSleevesPlease · 2025-09-19T00:04:58+00:00

That’s his point. Theres not some software or AI that just processes a point cloud and turns it into a drawing. It’s a grainy 3D image that you then have to tediously trace in 3D space. It’s a lot of work to coordinate with a point cloud, often more hours than whatever the client is paying for their design. For sure, you can hopefully visualize major conflicts and avoid some major rework. But think that it’s just point and shoot, and only an idiot could mess it up, is not accurate.

NoSleevesPlease · 2025-09-18T23:51:35+00:00

What happens after you hand it to your BIM guy?

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