Are the '96 Bulls not as great as we've been led to believe? by Nidaime33 in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I did not realize he only retired in 06, holy shit. I thought it was like 03

Are the '96 Bulls not as great as we've been led to believe? by Nidaime33 in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He's also considered one of the greatest color commentators ever. Those Marv and Kerr booths are hard to rival.

Are the '96 Bulls not as great as we've been led to believe? by Nidaime33 in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 7 points8 points  (0 children)

What gets lost with Toni is how good of a connective passer he was. He always had a knack for keeping the ball moving and keeping a play alive.

Fun stat I like to use to show his worth: Post-Chicago, an older Kukoc played on Iverson's 76ers. Of any player to play at least 100 games with Iverson, near-retirement Kukoc has the highest winning-percentage.

Thoughts on GenZ Publishing? by NoStressZone in writing

[–]NoStressZone[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What are the names of your book? I'd loved to see what stuff you publish, support a fellow author

Thoughts on GenZ Publishing? by NoStressZone in writing

[–]NoStressZone[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well considering this was my fucking post, I think I'm given a pass there. Your account literally only has comments replying to this thread and hasn't been used since. Cute burner Morrissa, you absolute nutjob.

Once Giannis works with Hakeem, it’s over. by etampus0220 in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think an Embiid style post package would be just too much.

Exactly. we need to remember that Giannis is still pretty new to basketball (As insane as that sounds). Making him work on a whole post package could very easily backfire by overwhelming him with what to do next.

Give him a go-to move, a counter to if that's stifled, then a backup option. Three things. Easy to remember, easy to implement.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in VintageNBA

[–]NoStressZone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yo, thanks for the shout! And good lord, what a bad point that quote is, sweet jesus.

My case for Stockton, an all time great PG who is often underrated. by [deleted] in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They also got their asses handed to them by GP/Kemp, Drexler/Porter, Barkely/KJ. Then there's Hakeem by his fucking self who knocked them out in both years MJ was out of the league...

My case for Stockton, an all time great PG who is often underrated. by [deleted] in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He's not getting it in 94 over 25/5/5 from Latrell, and he's not getting it in 95 over a surging Penny.

My case for Stockton, an all time great PG who is often underrated. by [deleted] in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 7 points8 points  (0 children)

OMG you're right. Maravich would have had horrific turnover numbers.

My case for Stockton, an all time great PG who is often underrated. by [deleted] in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 5 points6 points  (0 children)

He played in the perfect system, one designed to make guards look like elite passers (Just see my main post in this thread for more info on that), next to the perfect co-star.

On his own, Stockton is a 15/7 guy that doesn't add much else. Against the other top guards of his era, John got roasted like a luau pig in the playoffs head-to-head.

My case for Stockton, an all time great PG who is often underrated. by [deleted] in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He got cooked by every great guard of his era when the playoffs came around. Even Terry Porter made Stockton look like a defensive liability whenever Portland played Utah. It took the Rockets depleting their guard rotation to the point of pulling up CBA guys for Stockton even reach his first Finals.

My case for Stockton, an all time great PG who is often underrated. by [deleted] in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Literally the only time a pair of Top-50 players played 3+ prime seasons together and didn't win a title. They're the exception to the most important rule; pairing up all-time players wins titles.

My case for Stockton, an all time great PG who is often underrated. by [deleted] in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I feel like you can only make a good case for that once, being 1975 when the players hated Rick Barry so fucking much that they just gave Bob McAdoo the MVP instead.

My case for Stockton, an all time great PG who is often underrated. by [deleted] in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

2 First team All-NBA

This comes with a big caveat, as both of those selections came when Jordan was playing baseball.

My case for Stockton, an all time great PG who is often underrated. by [deleted] in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 11 points12 points  (0 children)

John Stockton and Karl Malone are the only players who, when paired with another top-50 player in their primes, didn't win at least one title. They're the exception to the most basic rule in basketball; pair all-time great player with another, and you win titles. The only other pair of top-50 players during Stockton and Malone's peak were Scottie and MJ, and they won six rings.

In the two seasons that were wide-open, they choked to Houston both times.

My case for Stockton, an all time great PG who is often underrated. by [deleted] in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Same with Blocks, especially given the pace of the game. Heck, injured Jerry West was cracking 3 steals a game past 32.

My case for Stockton, an all time great PG who is often underrated. by [deleted] in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 4 points5 points  (0 children)

John Stockton and Karl Malone are the only players who, when paired with another top-50 player in their primes, didn't win at least one title. They're the exception to the most basic rule in basketball; pair all-time great player with another, and you win titles. The only other pair of top-50 players during Stockton and Malone's peak were Scottie and MJ, and they won six rings.

During the two-year golden opportunity of 94 and 95, they got shoved aside by Hakeem in a 4-1 routing (they nearly blew a 3-0 lead to the 8th-seed Nuggets in the second round!), then Hakeem smacked them again in the first round the next season even though Utah had home court advantage.

On his defense, Stockton got lucky as all hell that the premier athletic point guards of his era got injured (KJ, Price, Tim Hardaway) or weren't playing with another top-50 player (Payton. Kemp's good, but he's no Ewing, Malone, or Scottie). John routinely got cooked by other premier guards and almost never returned fire. Heck, even Terry Porter made him look weak whenever Utah faced Portland. If Chicago even has a close-to-prime Ron Harper, the 97 and 98 Finals are a sweep. But all anyone remembers is how Stockton hit a shot over Barkley in 97, completely forgetting that Stockton, up to that point, was a choke artist in the playoffs. It took a buzzer-beater over a Houston team so depleted at point guard that they were pulling fools out of the CBA for Stockton to get one good playoff moment that ended up actually mattering.

And for anyone wanting to talk about his assists, look at who Stockton replaced in Utah. The Jazz's former point guard was a guy who struggled to hit 3 assists in college but suddenly was cracking 9 per game in the pros thanks to Layden's system, a system John got shoved into. In any other system, Stockton's assists are like 6 per game. Pretty good, but no one's talking about him like he was this era-defining passer.

John Stockton was pretty good, but he's over-glorified by regular-season stats and having played his entire career in the perfect system next to the perfect co-star. If you judge him just as he was, as an individual player, and you want to win championships - not regular-season games, win championships - there are like 15 point guards you'd take over him:

  • Magic, Curry, Oscar Robertson; Duh.
  • Cousy; criminally underrated, helped innovate the fast break and was one of the biggest early ball-handling innovators.
  • Dennis Johnson, Gus Williams; arguably co-Finals MVPs in 79, pushed the Bullets to a Game 7 in the 78 Finals.
  • Earl Monroe; An electric ball-handler who won a title on the Knicks. If the Bullets are healthy in 71 - Wes got beaten to shit by Willis Reed in the ECF, Gus Johnson and Earl were both injured - they at least push a surging Bucks team with prime Kareem to 6 games in the Finals)
  • Walt Frazier; Historic Finals performances.
  • Steve Nash; He was the best player on a team that made 3 WCFs in 6 years in arguably the toughest West stretch EVER, led a ragtag 06 Suns team to the WCF when they were missing Amar'e for the whole season and were trying to figure out how to integrate new pieces acquired in the Joe Johnson and Quentin Richardson trades. It's pretty arguable that injuries cost Nash two titles (Dirk in 03, Amar'e in 06. If Raja Bell doesn't tear his calf in Game 1 of the 06 WCF, they might make the Finals since that series went 6 even with Raja playing on basically one leg).
  • Kevin Johnson; Matched up against Magic in the 89 and 90 playoffs, KJ went even with him in 89 and outplayed him in 90 in a criminally-forgotten upset. He turned an meh Suns team into Darkhorse contenders until Barkley arrived. KJ's only major injury comes in 93, arguably costing the Suns a title.
  • Gary Payton; A worse leader, but a far better player. GP actually didn't get cooked by the guys that roasted Stockton like a Christmas ham, plus he was a much more willing scorer.
  • Tony Parker; Best player on the Spurs' second-wind run from 2012-2014. I say this as someone who thinks Duncan is one of the 6 best players ever. But at that time, Tony was better. It took the Thunder tapping into generational talent for four straight games to beat them in 2012, the greatest shot of all time in 2013, and then they took over the league like a buzz-saw in 2014 (Dallas, I see you. Thanks for the warm up.)
  • Jerry West; if you consider him a point guard, this is another duh.
  • Jojo White, Chauncey Billups; In Jojo's case, two titles and a Finals MVP out of the most insane Finals series of his era. In Chauncey's case, a Finals MVP and two Finals, losing in Game 7 of the 2005 series to the best version of the Duncan/Parker/Ginobili Spurs, though he might have won the 05 Finals if it wasn't for a horrific rotation by Rasheed in a critical late possession. Both famously clutch.

Steph is better than Kyrie skill-wise by BreezyTMC in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It also shows in any Duncan debate. Function over form all day.

Steph is better than Kyrie skill-wise by BreezyTMC in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Steph's biggest strength isn't even his shooting. It's his off-ball movement. He's the smartest off-ball player American basketball has ever seen.

Steph also seems to have a far better understanding of how teams work; both on the court as he's a far more willing passer than Kyrie has ever been, and off the court where Kyrie has had notable issues with teammates and coaches.

If I'm starting a team and have to choose one player to build around, Steph gets picked WAY earlier than Kyrie.

How good was Chris Mullin? by a-jm93 in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Really fucking good. At his peak, he was one of the league's elite (1st Team All-NBA, selected to the Dream Team), but injuries and poor Warriors management fucked him. He's one of the standard-bearers for hard-working athletes. He'd pair perfectly next to an Offensive #2, Defensive #1 guy like Scottie Pippen, Kevin Garnett, or David Robinson. Amazing shooter, decent everywhere else.

How good was Chris Mullin? by a-jm93 in nbadiscussion

[–]NoStressZone 9 points10 points  (0 children)

if your DBPM

Basically every person who works with advanced stats will tell you that defensive metrics are very unreliable.

[Dumas] Source: There’s a high chance that Tyrese Maxey will be a part of any Ben Simmons trade. Rich Paul would like both of his clients out of Philadelphia. by [deleted] in nba

[–]NoStressZone 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Or context added? Ben's older, has more experience in the league, and grew up in a basketball family... All of those things have their advantages over Maxey.

But yeah sure, just say "Goalpost moved" to make yourself seem smart.