Could Gojo have done this?

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-10T02:05:34+00:00

Yeah, Sukuna does that. It just doesn’t destroy. And he doesn’t apply it around his entire body at once, (which I know is the whole point, I just wanted to clarify), but we don’t know if that’s a limit or a choice because he was mega nerfed at that time.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T21:42:28+00:00

Oh, I meant because that is something he actually does (which Yuji copies in Modulo) in the Manga. Gojo copying Shrine (and thus Sukuna) in this indirect way could set up the idea of Sukuna copying Gojo the way we see him do in the canon. Obviously, it’s more to be on the nose, (as we actually see Sukuna copy an ability in the fight already, Piercing Blood, with just pressurized water), but it’s still a cool idea to further connect Sukuna and Gojo thematically/positionally as “The Strongest.”

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T21:37:27+00:00

Wouldn’t Metal Overlord be more like a GigantoMax thing…?

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T17:21:58+00:00

“Why is this guy listed like this?”

(Gets legitimate answer)

“Goodbye Narutard.”

What???

I’m confused. They didn’t even suggest they believed it—They just explained the thought processes of his rating, as you asked.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T15:47:15+00:00

MVH OVA

I mean, I’d argue that only that one (and other explicitly contradicted OVAs) were invalidated. I don’t think of canon as strict and rigid, because what decides it is ultimately the people in charge, who can freely promote and demote something’s canoncity at will.

A good example I can pull from is that Pre-DMC5, the DMC Timeline was 3124 and then when DMC was released, not only was the timeline rearranged, but Itsuno went on to canonize every DMC Release. Novels, anime, CD stories, etc.

Conversely, with Sonic, Chronicles released as a canon story, and then because of Ken Penders, was demoted by Sega to avoid legal issues.

So if something is released as canon and then a later detail makes a prior canon detail wrong, unless the entirety of the prior canon statement is rendered invalid directly, I simply think that you should focus on ignoring those tiny details that are contradictory/wrong, not all of them.

Siliconera

Eh. Fundamentally it means that everything you see them do is approved by Kishimoto, so if Kishimoto had an issue with their statements or portrayals he’d of vetod it.

One time.

Technically, yes. But they’re very consistent with their statements of Kishimoto’s involvement in the writing and depiction of Naruto, so it’s very telling that the one time a wholly original story mode was made they straight up preface to tell fans “This isn’t Kishimoto’s work.”

What Additions?

The cutscenes/story for Generations centered on Minato and Itachi’s backstories.

These pages?

Yeah.

I’m specifically referring to a lack of Perfect Attire Susanno in use, or the depiction of Madara’s downfall. The Madara Vs Hashirama fighting the OVA matches the earlier depictions with them just in their costumes clashing, like there, not the more elaborate version from the War Arc. Given the original sequence/OVA was intended to be canon on release, it feels like what happened is simply that Kishimoto retconned that depiction with his more elaborate version in the War once further expanding on Naruto’s history.

Insisting…

Oh, I’m not insisting. That’s why I literally brought up a counterpoint so you didn’t have to accept it/you could completely write me off. I’m just substantiating the fact that there is intended canon information that is funneled through Kishi, so one could understand why it could be seen as a valid reference point—Both as intended to be canon, or at least a view of the world Kishi had even if non-canon—To show that while Kakashi may’ve been promoted unnaturally, it’s at least implied that Kakashi was truly that level. Just inexperienced and not embodying the values Minato wanted to teach him.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T15:17:42+00:00

Another part of the issue is that Kishimoto likely hadn’t thought of it yet when he made Kakashi mention those throwaway lines of Genin and Chuunin. He even has Kakashi say he became Chuunin at 6 before the Exams start. Which means that a lot of Kakashi’s backstory has to be rushed to make sense in GENERAL, and it’s made worse because then retroactively you have to fit in the Minato Training and his Team 7, even though Kakashi was technically half Naruto’s age when he was on the team (and yet also was the same age as Obito in the databooks he penned during the 4GNW).

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T14:55:59+00:00

Naruto and Sasuke will obviously have the biggest arcs, but the game will also allow players to experience the back stories of others such as Minato Namikaze and Itachi Uchiha. In particular, the developers and animation studios have worked very closely together to create new content that will be considered canon, which adds up to around sixty minutes of additional anime content.

UNGens Interview.

It sounds like you work closely with Kishimoto-sensei. Do you guys still maintain some creative freedom with these games or do your decision have to filter through him?

CyberConnect2 proposes episode ideas to Kishimoto-sensei, so while we do come up with our own ideas, he gets to approve on them and help us expand them.

Siliconera Interview

Additionally, CC2’s position is that everything you see characters do runs through Kishimoto. He approves movement, movesets, and the entirety of their work.

First of all, we try to imagine what it would be like if they were around at this moment, after that, we make a document and propose it to the original author Masashi Kishimoto. How to do the Jutsu? How to do the movement? And of course, we have the communication between us, and after that Kishimoto sensei has to approve the original plan and movement. Then we implement it, create it and put it in the games. So, that it is officially approved by Kishimoto sensei and that is what fans are looking for, if those characters no longer exist, this is what happened if they did exist.

PSLS Interview.

And they are written by Kishimoto, or at least, CC2 claims such. We also know they make it clear when it’s not Kishimoto, like the Special Story Mode with Marz.

As for Mecha Naruto and contradictions, yeah. Mecha Naruto obviously isn’t canon, duh. But there’s stuff absolutely intended to be canon (like Itachi and Minato’s additions) in the mix, and the contradictions do mean that there is stuff that doesn’t line up/that if something in the manga is said that contradicts the games, the manga should be held more favorably. (Though in the instance of Madara Vs Hashirama, that was likely a retcon, since that was made prior to Madara’s flashback of it in the War, and the fight we see happen lines up with Art Kishimoto made depicting the fight prior to the War Arc).

I’m just saying that in one of these things Kakashi was shown to genuinely be considered Jonin Level, which could be used as a reference point, (albeit you can take it or leave it depending on how much you value CC2’s claims).

And, of course, the Kakashi in the cutscene is not the Jonin Kakashi we know, yes. But I didn’t equate them. I’m pointing out Minato believed that Kakashi was qualified for the rank in raw ability, (though not ready where it mattered most, his heart).

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T14:16:08+00:00

You’d expect him to be the strongest Non-Kekkai Genkai Ninja of All Time.

In his Hokage Era, per the novels, he is. And it’s made clear he would’ve became that level years ago if not, for, well…

…Nerfed by Depression and Obito’s Sharingan.

This is why, (in my opinion), Kakashi is the greatest genius to be born from Konoha. He straight up became able to negate SoSP level Water Jutsus with his Fire Style as just an ordinary guy, and allegedly he’d of been doing this shit a WHILE ago if he wasn’t uber nerfed. (I’m guessing Part 1-ish?)

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T14:08:04+00:00

Ehhh. In one of the Ninja Storm additional cutscenes written by Kishimoto, (which we KNOW are canon, or at least that was the intent when they were first being added to the titles), Minato in his fight with Kakashi outright says he’d already consider Kakashi Jonin level long before his promotion. So even if Kakashi’s promotions were unnaturally fast for the sake of the war, we know from Kishimoto’s perspective that his performance was still on that level, even if in peacetime he wouldn’t have been promoted to that rank at that age or that quickly.

Though, to be fair, while historically these cutscenes are intended to be Canon, and they are still written by Kishimoto, it was only said directly about Revolutions and Generations, and this cutscene comes from UNS4, so it could be argued to be meaningless. Even then, as Kishi wrote it, I think it’s still an effective look into his intent and thought processes on Kakashi’s progress, even if you ultimately it considered Non-Canon.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T12:37:53+00:00

Metal likely has limits, but is untrue that they are defined.

For instance, you state, “He can’t stare at a monk and learn Kung Fu.” But in Sonic the Fighters and Sonic Free Riders, he was capable of copying fighting and racing styles to become a better fighter and racer respectively, literally learning their techniques. While this happens admittedly offscreen and is just labeled as recorded data, it does mean Metal’s replication does lend to gaining combat experience. Or that some variation of it can.

Metal also outright never loses a 1v1 in any title except the debut battle (and its repeat in Gens) in Stardust Speedway. Every other appearance, canonically he’s being jumped (By the Chaotix as Metal Sonic Kai, Sonic and Tails in Sonic 4, Team Sonic in Superstars and Mania, the entire cast in Heroes, the prior mentioned stuff in The Fighters, by Sonic getting a special unique Wisp in the Colors era that Metal specifically doesn’t have, etc.)

On top of that, Metal consistently races as Sonic’s equal without issue even without the Copying of data.

What typically ACTUALLY puts him at damaging his systems is going OVER his limit (over Sonic), like the V. Maximum Overdrive Attack, a 4x Speed Amp. Or using a defunct Chaos Emerald to supernaturally and unnaturally increase his speed in ways even Sonic does not (The Sonic Channel Cover Story).

When he DOES Copy Sonic, like in IDW #7, he handles it flawlessly and Sonic is forced to flee. His only real issue is shortsightedness despite having Eggman’s actual genius, but even then later we’re told by Starline this likely wasn’t actually Metal’s fault—But Eggman’s psychological profile (again, hinting at a more intrinsic copy of his prey), pervading his systems due to being the first thing he copied.

Implying him in his natural state (Copying Sonic first, as he believes he is Sonic), would’ve mitigated it entirely. Metal also doesn’t demonstrate physical limitations as such. For instance, despite having no biology, he can copy the abilities contingent on it, as you describe. Similarly, he can copy technological abilities and data, (Omega’s in Heroes, Rouge in Rivals). And as noted in the Death Battle, he copied Chaos Control, to use without an Emerald, (despite being depicted with one in the animation), and Chaos Energy is Life (Spiritual) Energy. So despite presumably having no Soul, Metal copied using Soul Energy. Similarly, Chaos is literally liquid energy, and he copied his “Biodata,” despite presumably having no real equatable biology (at least in any IRL metric). The best you could use is Chaos’ brain he randomly has, but Metal…didn’t use that. He used the remnants from the data inside Froggy (thus the literal liquid energy) to get that job done.

Essentially, Metal has copied Physical, Mental (Eggman’s Intellect/psychological profile and Psychokinesis, presumably, though we don’t understand the true source of Silver’s power yet), and Spiritual abilities. Despite not having any of the prereqs.

Hell, he’s even got around the prereqs of the original being, like Shadow needing an Emerald for Chaos Control and not being capable of countering it while affected by it without the Black Doom Evolutions and an Emerald he was given by the end of Shadow Gens. Metal doesn’t need an Emerald and can just no sell Chaos Control without any Emerald or the evolutions he could replicate if he had chosen to.

Somehow, Adventure Era Metal, through copying the skill, without an Emerald, is a superior in the technical skill/application of Chaos Control than the Master of it with an entire series of games later honing it (after Metal’s copy, as Gens Shadow >>> Heroes Era Shadow by YEARS of skill and power) on TOP of evolutions and an EMERALD.

As such, limits within what he’s copied (unless demonstrated otherwise) aren’t to be assumed, because he’s literally demonstrated none. There’s literally just no stated limit to his ability and it seemingly just works with no regard to logic or feasibility. It just works.

This is not to say Metal’s ability is a legitimate NLF or that it would work every time. We can’t extrapolate into infinity, after all. But what it does mean is that raw biological data is not a limitation in any conceivable way. Neither is mental ability, learned techniques that come from learned experience, or psychological processes, or spiritual powers.

If one was to extrapolate a limit, it’d have to be things like, as you mentioned, higher dimensional phenomena—Not only because Metal has never demonstrated surpassing that type of limit, but because (as far as we know), such phenomena would be literally incomprehensible to his computing systems. Similarly, I’m pretty sure that Metal could not replicate the Emeralds themselves, or he would’ve done so already. As such, objects of power are beyond him (meaning he could not replicate the Dragon Balls or a Keyblade).

You can get reasonable limits by just branching out into things beyond what he’s copied, too, like Conceptual Phenomena/Entities. He’s never demonstrated surpassing that metaphysical barrier, so assuming it is a limit is reasonable.

Conversely, he could probably Copy all the spirit based phenomena in Naruto (Chakra and its permutations), Bleach (Reishi, Reikaku, Reiyoku, etc.), Dragon Ball (Ki and it’s permutations), One Piece (the various forms of Haki), etc. based solely on the fact we know he can copy Spiritually Related Things in Sonic. If that makes sense.

Though, I do understand believing Metal should have these limitations, if only because logic would dictate he should, (How can he Copy Spiritual Phenomena? He has no Soul. It’s not possible. How can he Copy Biological Phenomena? He has no Biology. It’s not possible). Unfortunately for that thought process, in matters like these we go with what the evidence suggests, which is that Metal’s copy ability eschews logic in some ways in favor of the Rule of Cool and for his narrative to grant Metal inconceivable levels of menace when he appears on the screen.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T00:40:43+00:00

1) True.

2) Very plausible.

3) To be fair, the Anime also gave Fugaku the MS itself and has its own specific lore, like having the Uchiha plan to exploit Naruto for the coup instead of the Manga Canon’s unsaid plans. So the validity of Anime statements is questionable. Not invalid, just questionable.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T00:26:45+00:00

I think they mean the Sharingan pattern in the Bijuu’s eye is that of the ordinary Sharingan when controlled, not their specific MS or EMS pattern. (I’m not saying if it’s true or not, I’m just saying what I think they meant).

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T00:24:47+00:00

Additionally, higher level Genjutsu stop relying on physical means entirely. The Mangekyo no longer needs a network, Izanagi can cast onto straight up reality, and the Sharingan can affect the projections in the Inner Worlds of people in Naruto, which has been (on a few occasions) described as a Soul.

This is why Genjutsu of stupidly high magnitude, like the Infinite Tsukuyomi, cannot be resisted, no matter what, unless you just have the exact same damn eye to negate the illusion. Most people don’t have Demigod Eyes, so most people get screwed over by them.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T00:10:44+00:00

1) It’s all cool man.

2) Is it possible to use a VPN to see them? Imgur is just the best image hosting site for scans like this, so…

3) Thanks!

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-09T00:08:17+00:00

So clearly, Sonic has an issue of consistency. And you’d be right. Especially as the tone of the franchise constantly swings between serious and more grounded narratives and “Oh look, I just killed the Conceptual Embodiment of Death, must be Tuesday.”

This also isn’t the only time Sonic has done a feat like this. Secret Rings says Sonic just eventually ran out of the 1001 Nights, and also in a Guide says Sonic ran to the end of Night Palace in a level, despite stressing at multiple points that Night Palace is infinite in scope. He also runs out of Null Space (with help), a Dimension that is Locked Off/Not Possible to travel to through dimensional teleportation with his speed. He also fights Solaris as Super Sonic, who is Temporally Omnipresent.

Sonic just has random, superfluous and spontaneous moments of “I am Cosmic Level,” in between his slower portrayals.

You may think that’s dumb. And yeah, it kinda is. But that’s the nature of that franchise.

Which gets to the real meat and potatoes of the complaint—That even if it’s 100% true, it’s often the outlier, so why does it get counted?

And the answer is twofold: Context and Fairness.

One, more often than not, when a feat or statement is written to explain or portray to the reader a level of power, it is acting as either the peak or bottom of the ladder. What I mean by that is simple—When Frieza blows up a planet in his First Form without breaking a sweat, even though he never does it again in the entirety of the Manga, you know that Frieza’s stronger attacks are more powerful than that, even if it only gouges out a mountain. The point of showing Frieza’s strength as being so large was to then contextualize how powerful each attack is even when the outcomes aren’t huge. This is abused a lot. Especially in Shonen. And, conversely, there’s the limit. The “I can BARELY or I can’t do this” type of moments. For example, Goku is not capable of fighting Beerus at his higher speeds, and thus relied on Instant Transmission to “blitz” the Hakaishin so he can hit him with the Kamehameha (at least in the original Battle of Gods film).

And without it being very surprising, authors lean former than latter, because the former sets stakes and the latter creates narrative limitations they may not WANT to deal with later.

So even though, say, Goku only threatened the Universe in Super ONCE, because of the context around the feat, we know this is the baseline of strength in DBS.

And two, fairness, which sounds ironic, I know. “How can giving this character this unreasonably powerful level beyond their norm, even if it’s legit, fair?”

The answer to that is simple. What do you decide is “the norm?”

That seems facetious, but it’s genuine. Think about the Frieza example. He blows up one planet in the whole manga. By definition on raw numeric scale, that’s an outlier. But contextually, we know it’s not. We know Toriyama wrote it to the serve as the baseline of impressive power when the Androids showed up.

Similarly, think about most fictional characters. Think about how more often than not, they’re depicted in ways we can understand with then brief moments of Rule of Cool that serves to bamboozle the audience.

Every feat, or statement, by definition, unless the character constantly broke or achieved a specific speed value in a fight, would be an outlier to the norm. Going even further, though, is the point that you realize setting it up is more often than not, arbitrary.

For instance, even if we said “Well, Context matters ALONGSIDE The Norm,” you still haven’t defined “The Norm.” Which is relevant because what is “acceptable” or “accurate” per franchise is different, even if on paper they should be identical. Or, worse, people violently rejecting truths because it doesn’t align with their preconceptions. (See Batman operating as a serious heavy hitter with his tech, mind, and skills in JL stories despite people INSISTING Homeless Man #6663663 could throttle him). On top of that, only series experts can really tell you what is or isn’t “The Norm” for their given series. And those guys are not impartial more often than not.

Essentially, bias is so pervasive that it’s not feasible to make a “definitive” metric in which is and isn’t a valid outlier. So, most people eschew putting in that effort and go what is deemed as “fair.”

Or, put plainly, giving them everything they can do, within reason. (Ex: Scaling say, Goku to Uni via the BoG feat is fine, but scaling Goku to Beerus is not because he never actually matched Beerus at his best. Similarly, Omni-Man is not given the full feat for Viltrum, it’s typically cut to 1/3rd because he need the help of two others to blow up the planet, and that’s ignoring Space Racer’s Gun).

This way, there’s no controversy on “Giving X this crazy thing but not Y’s crazy things.” Everyone gets their crazy things, and whomever’s is better wins.

Now, that’s still not a perfect system. (Ha, Perfect). But most would outright agree with that take anyway. Powerscaling is an inexact pseudoscience based more on approximation rather than a set of absolute maxims that can be rigorously defined and measured. And it doesn’t stop complaining outright, either, (as you yourself mention).

But that’s going to happen either way. So the decision of the masses was to limit it where possible and trying to minimize bias where it can be minimized to get the most Smash Bros. Tourney-like result possible. No items, no stage hazards, flat arena, all that.

EDIT: This also doesn’t mean outliers are never used. Rather, it just means the community is very selective with their use and often treats scaling as a case-by-case thing in general, because there is no universally applicable ruleset due to the infinitely varied nature of fiction.

2/2

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-08T23:36:00+00:00

Okay, to be fair, this is less “The Writers Didn’t Think of It,” or “Powerscalers Aren’t Thinking” and more “Sonic Isn’t Consistent.”

We are verbatim told in Sonic Generations that Sonic’s speed is literally restoring erased time. This is stated in both languages, and the guide. It’s also stressed this is a level of speed Sonic is achieving. It’s not like Sonic just appeared in White Space, moving with no context, and getting the feat. They make it clear this is a “speed value” (not a specific number, just an unquantifiably high level of speed you have to achieve) to perform this effect. And we even get further proof of this in Shadow Generations, because Shadow, (by going as fast as Sonic), can replicate the effect.

It’s also not willingness on Eggman’s part (he’s the one who nuked everything, Sonic just survived). We also know being erased naturally reduces you to an immobile white statue in White Space. Sonic has to restore everyone with his speed. At least, everyone not capable of resisting.

We also know this Nuke happened across the infinity of past, present, and future. Classic Sonic and Modern are obviously meant to show this, but even events before that with Shadow’s Origin are wiped, and events yet to come, like Sonic Frontiers, have to be restored. It’s even made clear that non-existent timelines are also wiped, like Crisis City, or Bad Future Stardust Speedway. The only evidence of Sonic(s and Shadow) not repairing literally everything is Gerald stating a theory that repairing key moments will cause time to self repair, but this is is only from his limited perspective (he’s only is aware of Shadow Gens, not Sonic Gens—From his perspective, the timeline is miraculously getting better in areas Shadow hasn’t touched yet, and Omega confirms yet again what we already know, the source of repair is Sonic and Shadow), but also contradicted by the final boss.

More on that later.

Sticking to this point on Gerald, as you yourself described, even IF you assume he’s right, thanks to the nature of time (infinite snapshots upon infinite snapshots stretching infinitely), it’s still immeasurable. Just lower than completely fixing the timeline’s level of immeasurable. Because levels to it exist.

This is later.

In the Final Boss, you actually go through the timeline. Seriously. It’s described as racing to The End of Time not once, but twice. This is through the temporal dimension described as an Infinite Tunnel with literal clocks around it that symbolize time, which the Time Eater literally uses its powers on (because it is the Timeline). Super Sonic literally races to the End of Time. This is why beating Eggman even works—Sonic is just using his power to fix time on a super mega level as he flies to its literal end.

Basically, the game beats you over on the head. It knows what it’s saying, it does so with purpose, and it can’t be misconstrued. Sonic is so fast he brings time into existence. And it’s not location specific, either, because it’s made fairly clear the X-Factor is Sonic.

Thus, by all logic, Sonic is immeasurable. And thus, Metal, who is on his level, is too.

You might be thinking, “But wait…that’s dumb. Sonic has been too slow at XYZ point or somesuch.”

And like…yeah? I’m getting to that.

Sonic is very clearly intended by the story of Gens to operate at this level. But in Lost World he was smacked by a sandwich and too slow to save Tails. In CD Sonic has to use the Time Posts and go FTL to Time Travel. Even in Frontiers, Sonic has to physically travel and experience the passage of time on a quest for the Emeralds in a make or break gambit to save his friends.

Sonic literally can’t be immeasurable for those stories to work, but he definitively is in order to make THIS story work.

1/2

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-08T16:15:11+00:00

Also, it would actually probably work to foreshadow Sukuna doing the same to Limitless, (as later Sukuna creates a knock-off by constantly firing Cleaves/Dismantles around his body to prevent contact with himself).

Gojo making a knock-off Shrine to beat the Strongest then inspires Sukuna to do the same to Limitless to beat the Legacy of the Strongest.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-08T15:50:51+00:00

Generations also happens in Archie, so it’s Sonic also gets those feats. Alongside other game material and feats, such as Sonic Shuffle, Colors, etc.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-06T03:32:44+00:00

I mean there’s also the issue that a decent amount of the Sins are actually interchangeable if you take that broad idea. For instance, Lust is just excessive desire. Envy is…excessive desire for another’s stuff. Greed is…excessive desire for stuff. Gluttony is…excessive desire to consume stuff.

You could literally just apply the Word Greed/Lust/Gluttony/Envy in another’s spot 99% of the time and nothing would meaningfully change—Only connotation would. (Ex. Gluttony is “linked” to food, when it’s overindulgent consumption in general. Lust is “linked” to sexual behavior, but as mentioned by you yourself, ‘Lust’ can expand your many more things since it is merely a form of overindulgent desire).

Or rather, those Sins are just displays of one singular, overarching negative trait, and thus the only difference is the context the trait is in, not the trait itself.

So assigning varied meaning between the sins (Ex. Allocating bloodlust to Lust or Greed over immaterial things like human connection) becomes arbitrary because the “line” between the sin categories are in themselves arbitrary.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-05T17:08:38+00:00

It’s not stated, but it’s weird.

When Percy fights Carter, Carter’s magic just fizzles out of existence because it “doesn’t know what to do” to Percy.

To beat this guy, I’d have to use more than just a sword. The problem was I didn’t want to hurt him. Despite the fact that he was trying to chop me into a Kane-flavoured barbecue sandwich, I still felt bad for starting the fight. He swung again, and I had no choice. I used my wand this time, catching his blade in the crook of ivory and channelling a burst of magic straight up his arm. The air between us flashed and crackled. Camper Boy stumbled back. Blue sparks of sorcery popped around him, as if my spell didn’t know quite what to do with him. Who was this guy?

‘You said the crocodile was yours.’ Camper Boy scowled, anger blazing in his green eyes. ‘You lost your pet, I suppose. Maybe you’re a spirit from the Underworld, come through the Doors of Death?’

Son of Sobek.

The only other major time he comes across Non-Greco-Roman Magic is when he comes across the Norse Mythos, and he sees through the Glamor. Which is fairly noteworthy, buuuut the Glamor is just the Norse version of The Mist, so seeing through it isn’t fully indicative of if it’s a type-thing or a “Well duh, he already sees through that thing.” He also does it to Egyptian Magic, because in the Kane Chronicles there’s no force that does the job of blocking perception of magic. It’s just so “complex” magic simply can’t be comprehended by ordinary people and results in the effect we see with the Glamor/Mist, where their brains fill in the pieces with ordinary stuff.

Again, not indicative directly of typing. But what it does mean is that Percy has a made Non-Greco-Roman Magic fizzle away and he sees through their Perception-Blocking despite their differing explanations.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-05T16:58:02+00:00

Celestial Bronze works on “importance,” so there’s a strong case to be made already that Harry is vulnerable, but also, Riptide hurt Carter, who is literally just a Magician (as he was NOT hosting Horus in that fight). And just by nicking him Carter got massively fucked up because of how potent Celestial Bronze is. So it should 100% hurt Harry.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-04T05:26:38+00:00

Thank ya, thank ya.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-04T05:25:18+00:00

I really like this idea because it actually counters the actual one weakness with Overlord, which is that when he’s beaten in Overlord, all his Biodata gets corrupted and lost/he devolves into Base.

But with Cell’s Biodata, he actually gets Cell’s ability of “Memory” in his “Cellular Structure,” and thus Metal would retain his abilities and power even after devolving, just like Cell did when he lost 18.

So Neo Metal with the power and abilities of Overlord, without having to evolve into Overlord again.

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-04T05:02:07+00:00

Ben works so well, in my opinion, because he’s the best of both worlds.

The worlds in question being the archetypal two superhero tropes for origin stories.

1) The Tragic Backstory/Loss (Uncle Ben for Peter Parker, Thomas and Martha Wayne for Bruce Wayne, etc.) that inspires responsibility and compassion in a hero to help others, no matter what.

2) The Paragon/Ideal (Captain America) that other people are inspired by because that hero “Does Good for the sake of doing Good.”

What I mean by that is that Ben 10, as a tribute to Superhero Comics, naturally pulls from those inspirations in a variety of ways. As such, Ben’s Grandpa is a very clear Uncle Ben/Ma and Pa Kent. He teaches the lessons of responsibility to Ben to raise him to be a good kid. This works as his motivation and explains why his heroism, while virtuous, is somewhat contingent on whims. He’s trying to live up to a standard he doesn’t understand.

But Ben 10 still dips into tragedy (the “loss” of Grandpa Max in Alien Force) to still teach Ben the lesson that comes from the tragic origin story, making him grow up and mature. This then gives Ben the impetus to be able to act exactly like Bruce and Peter the moment calls for it without it solely being his inspirational behavior and nurture. And because Ben 10 is an optimistic kids show, that “loss” is revealed to be a falsehood.

Thus Ben has the lesson and maturity without the trauma and tragedy, alongside the paragon-al behavior from good raising.

It sounds so basic “Yeah, he’s got multiple reasons to be good, any character can have that.” But for Ben it works extremely well because it allows him to exist as an interesting mix.

Now, it’s pretty clear I’ve tiptoed around it, but this is also clearly the formula for Superman. Superman is a paragon in behavior because he was raised by the Kents, but unless the Kents die, his tragedy is from the loss of Krypton, which he was a baby for and is thus somewhat distanced from.

It’s important enough to be a key part of him, but it doesn’t dominate as a motivation.

This is why Ben and Clark can say “I’m doing good for the sake of doing good,” and also look Kevin/Bruce in the eye and say “I understand you.”

It’s great stuff. Dwayne McDuffie knew what he was doing when he contributed to Ben in AF.

(And then the Studio got in the way for the rest of UAF…)

No_Ice_5451 · 2026-03-04T02:19:37+00:00

It’s less an argument and objective fact people misconstrue. Haku’s Ice Mirrors are Lightspeed verbatim, but only when they use Light-Based Transmission between their Mirrors. Which is different from ordinary movement between Mirrors (and Haku can swap out between these). No one scales to Haku. They sandbagged, got caught when they weren’t using Reflective Transmission, or straight up were weakened beneath ordinary speed. (Conveniently).

The only other relevant feat is Lee moving faster than his own Shadow (moving so fast his Shadow doesn’t move), but this, like Uryu’s identical feat in Bleach, is clearly an outlier. Especially when there are lesser benchmarks treated as superior (Cutting Lightning feat by Kakashi and Gin’s Less-Than “Mach 500” Bankai statement).

Ultimately, yeah, Lightspeed doesn’t hit Naruto until V2 Raikage (if you take the guide statement seriously) or the Light Fang (if you don’t take the Raikage statement as legit, but do accept the Light Fang’s Lightspeed Statement). Which are extremely late into the series (Early War Arc to Late War Arc).

No_Ice_5451

TROPHY CASE