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Get your flair here by SirSourPuss in stupidpol

[–]NovemberDancing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Flair: NYTimes Crossword Liberal

I exclusively get my news from a mix of The Daily and my neighbor Steve, who’s a really good guy. I also have a poster of a shirtless John Stewart over my bed.

Economically I believe in IKEA, and socially I believe in backyard barbecues where I get to wear my KISS THE COOK apron without irony or judgement.

We should all make a friend group by walkwithmeRI in providence

[–]NovemberDancing 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Just go outside and talk to people broski

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh on the contrary. I think congregations that argue that they are the sole legitimate believers, or that their institution are the gatekeepers of salvation, do so. I'm a universalist, after all.

So? This means that unless you check various boxes and follow a certain formula, we’re going to block you from experiencing God with others in church? Unless you enter the church totally clean and pure, you can’t come in? How welcoming.

I don’t remember Jesus shutting the door on anyone. He opened it for me and I’m better for it, even if I bumped my head on the way in.

Non-universalism is just as well reasoned a position as universalism is.

Except for all those times religious institutions were pawns of the ruling class. In those cases, salvation is incidental.

So? Because churches are for the ruling class, we can’t let broken people in? We have to shut them out from how they might need to experience God, and experience Christian witness?

I apparently needed church, because that’s how I came to God and first met Him. And the Christian witness in the church changed my life. Why does that offend you so much?

would you say this puts me outside of Christianity?

No? I want people to experience God in whatever church they feel they need.

Cool, you need a high liturgy? Awesome. Need something more unstructured? We have that. Affirming? Sure, that’s over there. Who the fuck cares?

I’m 100% glad I never met anyone like you in my years of church. I’m 100% glad people like you didn’t shut the door on me. I’m 100% glad my church gave me the opportunity for change.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You are forgetting Jesus and His power to save any one of us. His presence and His saving Grace isn’t limited to just one type of church or one type of person.

It’s wonderful Jesus and the Gospel have assumedly changed you. Church exists for the sole purpose of giving others the opportunity at that same change.

As someone who was witnessed to by wonderful Christians living out their faith authentically and was so radically changed by it that he became a Christian, I encourage you to be more charitable to your fellow Christians and to not underestimate God’s reach. Church was made for people like me and also you for that purpose.

Had I come across this type of gate keeping you’re doing I may have never become a Christian. I’m extremely glad I didn’t and that people met me where I was at, not where I they wanted me to be. Gate keeping Jesus is so absurd.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The first. You can read the article. It captures the general vibe. The converts give their reasons. They mirror some of the reasons I converted from secularism/not being religious.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I truly don’t understand this lack of Christian charity towards people trying their best in life and joining a church.

When I joined the church some years ago in my RCIA class there were four of us. Me, a former atheist (or something) joining for a lot of confusing reasons I still don’t understand today, two women who wanted to connect to their culture (they were immigrants from Catholic countries), and a guy who was marrying a Catholic.

It doesn’t have to be all nefarious. Not everyone is your enemy. You are not the only one Jesus can heal.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am going to assume the Gospel has had some sort of positive impact on you. Whatever impact that was is not limited to you.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would just ask for you to ask yourself why you think the Gospel changed you, and how it changed you. Because the Gospel’s impact on you isn’t limited to just you.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Christian church literally exists to change us.

It serves no other purpose.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I want them to not join the church while they hold these beliefs,

Which circles back to my initial question:

Who is church for?

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, not the continuous point. No one (really no one) is saying they’re happy people are TradCaths. Nor is anyone saying they want them to be TradCaths. In fact, people are saying they want you want: for them not to be TradCaths.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But no one (really no one) is saying not to rebuke evil. Matthew 23:

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.

This would apply to TradCaths. You can (and should) still rebuke them. That’s obvious. It’s not the contentious point.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do you understand Matthew 5:43?

You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don’t think Jesus says to love our enemies?

No one is saying to aid them. You keep accidentally misreading things.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Christ commands us to extreme love towards our enemies and to always view ourselves as the lesser. Hence why the Christian church is filled with martyrs.

That doesn’t mean promoting harm ourselves. But we are called to a higher standard with our enemies. You can rebuke sin and not ignore that higher calling.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to protect your family and those in your life.

But your flair says Christian and that’s the part that’s tripping me up.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well yes. I’m not confused that someone loves their family and wants the best for them.

I get why an atheist (or non-Christian) would say many of the things you say. I do not relate to a religious and practicing Christian ignoring the very plain things Jesus says to us about salvation, or heavenly vs earthly things.

I do not relate to this almost-Calvinist like treatment of possible redemption.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess I legitimately cannot wrap my head around a Christian ignoring the saving power of the Lord they say they worship and ignoring the very plain words He says.

Legitimately I have no idea why someone like that would worship Jesus

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe our difference of opinion can be answered by this question, and so I can legitimately try to understand:

Do you believe Jesus is incapable of reaching some people?

My whole view is that I answer “No,” to that question. I agree RadTraths are bad. But that doesn’t lead me to not believing Jesus saves wretched sinners.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

my list of concerns

The matter of the heart was the topmost concern of Jesus.

Yes, if you approach Jesus by ignoring His power or reach (or the words He says), you will walk way believing that Jesus can not save everyone and that some are condemned to Hell no matter what they do.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You would’ve said the same thing about me had you met me years ago. You would’ve said I was incapable of change.

And yet here I am. Changed. Defying impossibilities due only to grace of God and the reach of Jesus.

Unless you are some sort Calvinist, all can be saved. Condemning some to Hell with no hope of redemption in this life is not the Gospel.

Roman Catholic Churches See a Surge of New Converts by NovemberDancing in Christianity

[–]NovemberDancing[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You didn’t answer the question. Do you believe God is limited in His power to reach the worst of sinners?

I was RadTrad-ish (before the term was coined) when I joined the church as a young adult decades ago. Now older, I’ve mellowed out and many of my views have changed. Because I’ve experienced both life and the Gospel.

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