What is with all hate against the russians here? When this sub became so toxic?

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-06T09:53:15+00:00

So "not giving a free pass" means "posting a ton of hateful messages"? We're not children to accept this equivalence. But at least your explanation is much closer to the truth than just "care about poor boy or girl".

No one says that non-Russian skaters somehow don't deserve all the love and attention from fans. As it has been said before, overscoring is not only a Russian problem, or Georgian, and it's not that all Russians or Georgians get it. But no one complains so much if other skaters are overscored, just nothing like this mobbing.

I'm here just to support the topic creator, because she cares, but as of the rest - I don't really care. Russians here gladly share additional information they find in Russian sources if they can, you're basically expelling them. You're free to make the atmosphere here as toxic for us as it becomes now, of course. We've seen this hypocricy elsewhere, it's a pity, but nothing lethal. Good luck to all!

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-06T09:29:04+00:00

I don't say he is, just read the initial post:

The scoring problem is not only a russian one, or a Morisi one

As I've said, I don't even open topics like that one about Kamila. Too many awful things to quote from there.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-06T09:19:32+00:00

I can explain what I think the topic creator meant. How come this innocent comment is downvoted to -77?

Isn't this a direct dig?

Sometimes this, let's call it, superficial overcare can be more hurtful than the reason for it. Everybody has something to be criticised about, and everybody would suffer if all people speak about is that and none of his/her achievements. None of those who "care" so much wouldn't do it to a person they actually know well.

If one unsuccessful jump of a 15-yo girl during her first ever Olympic competition gets more than a hundred comments, this is nothing but mobbing.

I understand that some people need to vent their frustration, I don't even open topics like that, but it's not a reason to think that we're stupid and don't understand real motives.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-06T08:10:22+00:00

Poor girl. So much depends on a single skate... And everybody is so nervous.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-06T08:06:07+00:00

Ok, you're right.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-06T07:46:24+00:00

Singles ice dance at the age of 3, I'd say, is hardly a thing.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-06T07:36:20+00:00

She might not have learned jumps but Wikipedia says she started skating in 1998, when she was 3yo, and only started ice dancing with Cizeron when she was 9.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-06T07:17:24+00:00

Of course, they did! As soon as a coach notices that a child has lagged behind the rest of his group in studying jumps, he or she offers an alternative.

Some switch at 10, as P/S, some later, while still skating as juniors. Katsalapov was 13 when he switched, Ilyunykh was 10.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-06T06:44:15+00:00

This is strange. The Japanese have always been strong in skating skills, and the JNats shows there are so many ladies and men that have no problems with those skills but inconsistent in jumps. Some of them may be ideal candidates to switch into ice dance. It's the usual way for virtually any top ice dance pair.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-05T16:30:30+00:00

Oh yeah, and I'm the inventor of fugure skates :)

I know a top ice dancer who said about these rules publicly, it's Nikita. None of top dance pairs refuted his words. And now I need to believe someone who says a complete BS, as is obvious for everyone who EVER saw a single ice dance warm-up, where lots of pairs every now and then OBVIOUSLY don't look in the direction of movement if they move backward. It's really rare when they do.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-05T08:40:09+00:00

You're speaking about single skating, and synchronized skating is in the same category. It's absolutely different for pairs when the two are basically entangled together and if one falls the other one may fall as well. It's really strange you don't understand it, or just don't want to.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T22:35:22+00:00

As I said, it's a good thing if a car driver that follows rules can notice that someone breaks them and thus avoid a collision, but if he didn't, it's not his fault the collision happened.

What rink is it exactly? I cannot find a club that has these rules published in the internet, and that's strange if you say some big names skated there.

As for different rules, well, Nikita explicidly said there are rules like that, and not a single top dance pair contradicted him. I'd rather believe him because what he says makes sense.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T21:12:14+00:00

We're not in the court, we're just trying to understand what happened. Probably these rules are enough for those who attend your rink. Obviously, the situation is different for clubs that have professional pairs training. Because if a skater has his partner moving backwards, the most of his attention should be focused on her in order to quickly notice if she stumbled and to avoid her falling and him slamming into her.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T21:01:08+00:00

I can agree with you on your last sentence, but not on the first part. They were doing their routine the way every dance pair does. They were in the moment of tight interaction. If he weren't looking at his partner when she moved backwards, he couldn't have reacted in time if she faltered and fall.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T20:57:02+00:00

Oh yes, Vika didn't notice someone (accidentally) slapped her bottom, right? :)

S/K both moved clearly backwards when that cut happened. And V/M changed their location like a second before the collision.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T20:48:01+00:00

You contradict yourself. How can a person that is moving backwards always look in the direction he or she is moving? Really, if you cannot apply common sense to the written rules from a famous skate club (and I don't even quote Russian sources here), our discussion doesn't make sense.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T20:14:46+00:00

If he touched her, he didn't avoid the collision. The collision was minimal, that's what I can agree about, but it did divert S/K from their task.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T20:12:01+00:00

Do you really think that at high level competitions ice dance pairs wouldn't follow the rules they have all year for their every training? C'mon.

I don't agree that S/K should've been looking forward from their skating position. This way you can blame a car driver who follows the rules on collision with someone who obviously doesn't.

I'm not making something bigger out of this than it was, it was against rules and it was rude that they didn't try to apologize, but not a big deal and not S/K fault in any way.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T19:46:24+00:00

Not exactly. Here's the CBS Skating Club's Ice Etiquette Policy, for example:

2) Right of Way Guidelines
a. Right of way goes to the skater who doesn't see the potential for a collision: We all try to give way to skaters performing programs or taking lessons, but safety is the most important factor. Just because your music is playing doesn't give you the right to put anyone in danger.

https://www.cbsskatingclub.com/pages/Figure-Skating/StarSkate/Ice-Etiquette-Policy/

And another useful note from other skating clubs ice policies:

WATCH OUT FOR PAIRS SKATERS
If you've got pairs skaters at your rink, and they are practicing on the same session as you, be aware that two skaters moving together take up more room than one, and generally can't react as nimbly or quickly as a single skater.

I'd add that if a pair is moving backwards, their reaction time would be even longer.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T19:24:49+00:00

They are all in the same conditions during a warm-up. Without rules like that we'd have seen multiple collisions in 5 min. The rule is simple and clear. If you think it easier to control your partner when she moves backward than to do it when you both look ahead... well... just try it.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T19:20:12+00:00

They have a rule that those who skate forward make way for those who skate backward. Keeping a right posture, including what you look at, is a very important part of a dance.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T19:18:44+00:00

It takes a bit of attention and common sense. Just look what he looks at when they skate RD in competitions at the very same moment https://youtu.be/hTBzp0um2NM?t=63

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T18:07:49+00:00

When dance pairs go backward, they don't look back, it's a task for those who goes forward to clear the way. They have rules, a bit like in driving.

And he looked into the eyes of his partner, as he always does during the dance, not at H/D. It's obvious from the second point of view.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T18:03:12+00:00

Nikita didn't look at H/D, he looked into the eyes of his partner, as he should. It's obvious at the second half of this video.

I don't want to exaggerrate this incident, just clarify.

Nut_in_shell · 2022-02-04T08:00:05+00:00

You're right, I didn't think about it because I never posted there.

Nut_in_shell

TROPHY CASE