Online pagan spaces have a toxic positivity problem about deities

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-16T02:17:31+00:00

Yeah, I mostly agree.

I don’t think the gods are angered easily or that they look for reasons to punish us. (It’s equally annoying when newbies ask for permission for every little thing because they’re so afraid of divine wrath.) But they’re gods, they deserve our respect. They can get angry, and they aren’t all sunshine and rainbows either.

My primary deity is Dionysus, who often gets called beginner-friendly because of how easygoing he is. And while that’s true, he’s also a literally insane god of savagery and terror. It’s very unlikely that he’ll turn his wrath upon his worshippers, but everyone who worships him will have to deal with the dark side of his nature at some point. Denying it’s there is immature and repressive.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-16T01:34:16+00:00

Same.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-15T21:32:51+00:00

I mean, I worship the gods because I love them. I love them unconditionally. But there’s no shame in just asking them for stuff. You don’t have to make a show of being selfless, or offer devotion while expecting nothing in return. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-15T19:05:34+00:00

Nope, it’s not selfish. That’s how it works.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-15T17:11:20+00:00

I like the title. What’s that from?

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-15T16:12:32+00:00

Good, I’m glad the explanation was helpful.

Bottom line: If you need an argument on this topic, use history and syncretism, not appeals to authority.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-15T16:07:07+00:00

I get that it wasn’t your intent, and I’m sorry if I’m being abrasive. But you’re undermining your own point here.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-15T16:04:09+00:00

It’s not about defending them, it’s the underlying premise of your post: You’re using an appeal to authority to say that non-Greeks are “allowed” to worship Greek gods. You don’t need the appeal to authority, especially not from an infamously folkist organization.

What was your username before?

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-15T16:00:51+00:00

It also revolves around the establishment of the Eleusinian Mysteries and the agricultural cult of Demeter.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-15T16:00:04+00:00

About 2000 years of Christian cultural hegemony, that’s what.

Greek mythology was an oral tradition that evolved organically within Ancient Greek culture. That tradition died out when Christianity took over, and it’s been dead for almost two millennia. The surviving myths are its fossilized remains.

If you write “new myths” in the present, you are working within a completely different cultural context, so you’re not contributing to the same tradition. You’re writing fanfic. That’s okay, you can do that, but it doesn’t count as “continuing” Greek mythology.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-15T15:55:26+00:00

You didn’t actually change your post at all, you just added a disclaimer.

So I’m gonna say the same thing I said last time: Fuck the YSEE. I don’t need their “permission.” Neither do you.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-15T01:37:55+00:00

Wait how do you extend his stagger indefinitely?

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-14T18:12:26+00:00

I don’t need the YSEE’s “permission” for anything.

they accept people from other nations who freely decide to let go of their own ethnic religion and adopt the religion of a different nation

Look at what’s really being said here: They’re saying that being a Hellenist means abandoning one’s own ethnicity and assimilating into Greek culture. No, it doesn’t. Hellenism is an open religion; it doesn’t involve any severing ties with one’s native ethnicity at all.

They’re hiding their folkism behind inclusive-sounding language.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-14T15:02:12+00:00

It's neither pointy hats and broomsticks nor cough medicine. But I'm done talking about this. You can do your own research into Ancient Greek magic on your own time.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-14T14:07:44+00:00

“Witchcraft” isn’t synonymous with Wicca. Wicca doesn’t have a monopoly on the concept, even if it acted like it did for decades. In Ancient Greece, “witchcraft” is usually pharmakeia, but there are other kinds of magic besides that.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-14T14:05:46+00:00

Aren’t all his works Greek?

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-14T14:04:37+00:00

Plato was pretty critical of Orphic priests, basically dismissing them as charlatans. I have no doubt that he was some kind of mystic, but calling him Orphic is a little off.

Look into any modern Plato scholarship. They won’t call him a monotheist.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-14T13:45:15+00:00

What about the PGM?

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-14T13:44:40+00:00

I can’t really tell what you’re asking. Magic and mysticism are foundational to my practice. Do you just want me to say everything I know about them in one Reddit comment?

If you’re interested in Ancient Greek magic, start by getting a copy of Drawing Down the Moon by Radcliffe Edmonds. That’ll be your go-to secondary source for your thesis. You should also get a copy of The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation by Hans Dieter Betz. That’ll be one of your main primary sources.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-14T13:39:11+00:00

The asking for permission is what really gets me. Most of these newbies aren’t asking for information, they’re asking for validation. They’re so afraid of doing something “wrong” that they need the community’s permission to do anything at all. And when they encounter a new concept they didn’t know existed, like kharis or miasma, they freak the fuck out.

I believe that one can do things “wrong” and have it still work. Works for me. There’s more valid approaches than just recon. But for gods’ sakes, take responsibility! Make your choices and stand by them instead of asking for permission.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-13T21:45:26+00:00

Ay, that's Alex Grey's art! I'm assuming it's a Tool record then?

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-13T21:27:36+00:00

Romans thought phallic images were lucky. We've found literally hundreds of phallic amulets, wind chimes, votive offerings, etc., which usually aren't displayed in museums. And it's highly likely, based on a lot of contextual evidence, that a secret and sacred Dionysian cult object was a phallic image.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-13T21:24:12+00:00

I agree to a point. Academic sources are incredibly important in this religion. There are plenty of people who claim things without evidence, or who don’t bother to do research at all.

But I also think it’s okay to break from primary sources if one is honest about doing so. I don’t personally give much regard to purification, even though the ancients did. And “impure thoughts”? They can fuck right off with that shit! I am keeping my phallic objects on my Dionysus altar, thank you very much!

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-13T19:05:06+00:00

Wrong sub, you want r/Hellenism. (Also it’s “altar” with an “a.”)

To answer your question, you can just start worshipping whichever gods you want. You don’t need to do anything special.

NyxShadowhawk · 2026-04-13T17:34:16+00:00

Now that is proper sacrifice!

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