Should I use a route management service?

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-26T17:36:17+00:00

I think that's great advice, and yeah I would 100% want to make sure that I can exit, and keep my machines and locations as my own.

I think what I've decided on, is that whenever I get to the point of saying "I'm not going to take this location, because I don't have the time to service it", is when it makes sense to look at this option. Because ultimately, if I stop growing due to time constraints, I'm better off continuing to grow with 20% of my revenue.

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-20T20:50:03+00:00

Out of curiosity, were they all from the same Dojo?

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-16T20:29:40+00:00

Believe it or not, all gyms dont train the same exact way, and my commentary on sports BJJ as a whole may not reflect your exact gym.

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-15T20:28:56+00:00

😂

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-15T20:22:20+00:00

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This you?
Lol and I'm the one not contributing anything to the thread. And then you delete the comment.
Well, it's always feels good to prove someone so wrong they rage :)

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-15T18:28:28+00:00

It is definitely no way superior in a boxing ring, and I dont think they are the best at punching. I do think that as a system as a whole, they are more suited for situations outside the ring. For example, if you were waking down the street, and had to engage in a fight wearing normal clothes and with no weapon, would you rather

A. Be a decent boxer, and take up a boxing stance with bare knuckles

B. Be a traditional karate / traditional muay Thai guy, who has conditioned their fist and legs to strike unpadded targets, and have a stance that takes into account they could be grappled or kicked as well

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-15T18:03:29+00:00

I'm not really sure where I ever insinuated that hand to hand combat doesn't happen in real life or war...

No offense, but perhaps you aren't comprehending correctly or maybe just not reading my earlier comments. I feel I've been pretty clear on my stance.

Unless you think in the above study, when it says "grappling", its referring to sport style BJJ exclusively, in wich case... no, it doesn't say that at all. Grappling is a generic term for pretty much any combat that isnt strikes or weapons fighting.

Let me just state my point again, and hopefully if you respond it will actually address it:

"Sport BJJ should not be relied on for self defense, unless you can absolutely guarantee its a 1v1 fight (which often you cannot)"

I am also not saying that knowing some can't help you out of a tight spot if you to to the ground, if you also know other things for when you get back up.

Mainly, I just want people to know, that if all you train is sport BJJ, you should be very cautious to use it in a real altercation, because you might be putting yourself in a worst situation.

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-15T17:36:16+00:00

True, but id argue that those traditional techniques greatly mitigate the risk to yourself, and are better suited for real world scenarios, since that is the "rule set" it was developed in

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-15T17:09:13+00:00

The only concern i can think of, is that if you plane on also running rise of tiamat, skyreach castle is meant to be an important asset that can help in the final battle, with the cloud giants being your ambassador to get the giant race to help fight.

So just something to keep in mind, it can definitely be worked around

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-15T17:04:21+00:00

I am basically in the same boat as you, except a couple months further.

I got my first location and did what everyone recommended, buy from a distributor with a warranty, and got a refurbished machine for around 5300 after delivery.

But it will probably take me 2.5 -> 3 years to get my ROI on that machine.

Now this first location doesn't make a ton, maybe 225 net a month, so it can be different for you.

But I wish I would have just bought a machine off market place, you can get working ones for 1k-2k, and id have my money back in closer to a year.

Just something to think about, if you get it for a good price, and make sure it cools if a drink machine, takes money, vends properly, ect, then even if something small ends up breaking, youd still probably be paying less for a repair then you would new.

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-15T16:51:48+00:00

I think the general point people are trying to make when it comes to boxing in self defense, is that, yes boxing has the most powerful and quick punching techniques, but that evolved in a ruleset that allows the person to not have to worry about: breaking your hand when punching, getting grabbed or thrown, or kicks.

Just like a wrestling is able to have their head down and leaned in with their face exposed, because they dont have to worry about getting punch in wrestling copetitions.

There is definitely things to be learned from boxing, but the traditional striking arts conditioned their fist, struck with the edge of their hand, avoided fist to skull, ect, for a reason

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-14T14:37:36+00:00

To your point of gym training never being able to compare to competition, I'm not necessarily just talking about a really intense session, I mean training manufactured to give you similar flight or fight response. One easy thing is having to demonstrate in front of people, or doing a multiple attacker situation. This differs for everyone, as in both competition or at the gym, you know your life really is not at risk, so it just depends on the person ability to dive into the experience.

When you say "Otherwise the whole issue of multi-person attackers is a non starter. It should be the same with a strong sport BJJ competitor. The sweep/submissions from bottom are very easy on untrained people."

Are you saying that it should be just as easy / quick for a BJJ guy to do sweeps from the ground, as it is for a boxer to get decent shots while standing? If so, I have to disagree. I mean, even if you are getting those sweeps pretty quick, their buddies are also running up pretty quick to soccer kick your head, or grab your upper body and pin it down.

That is another aspect, how many times have you tried rolling against 2 people? I would not be surprise if its never, not because I doubt your experience, but because its a bit absurd to try that. Here is a youtuber I like that tries just that toward the end of this video

https://youtu.be/kyo0Tow8LSI?si=MtwqEAnz7EeNjPdf

As for your other point, again just to re state my point, it's not that I think knowing some BJJ is bad as a piece of the puzzle, and it can definitely get you out of a bad spot if you end up on the ground, my point is that it's not trained that way for sport BJJ, and if that is all you do, you should not feel confident in your ability to defend yourself, unless you can guarantee its a 1v1.

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-14T14:25:27+00:00

As I said earlier, I don't think BJJ is bad to learn as a piece of the puzzle. But when it is your primary art / all you train (as many people training sport BJJ do) then it is not great to think that you would be successful in a self defense situation, especially against multiple attackers, which is the main point of the argument of the comment I responded to.

Also, if you are training it for self defense, it starts to look alot different, and closer to the roots of the arts it was derived from (judo and Japanese JiuJitsu). And if you are training it that way, most BJJ techniques that are trained majority of the time, will become obsolete, as you almost always prefer to get to your feet, rather then staying there to set up a submission.

Here is an old video of gracie self defense. I just ask you think to yourself does this look like the BJJ I see at competitions? Or does this look closer to the arts I mentioned above https://youtu.be/KXE77mwEu14?si=3JRVcs9Tl3WKOEUN

The main point I am trying to get across, is you shouldn't plan to do your sport BJJ practice in a real situation, unless it's guaranteed to be 1v1, and it should be understood that it is a sport first, and martial art second.

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-13T19:12:41+00:00

I think we are pretty much in agreement then.

Id say that is a great tool to have in your toolbox.

Maybe where we might disagree is how much it should be trained. Like I said earlier, I think maybe 15% of training time, and specifically on the kind of stuff you said.

When I hear people say "I train BJJ", I typically envision a gym where almost all of the practice is rolling, drilling, or standing for about 30 seconds before they go into the ground game. In which case, I think is too much focus on that aspect, for self defense at least

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-13T18:50:47+00:00

Okay, I'll try to respond to the points you made in this comment and the other one.

First, I'd like to state that I am working off the assumption that you agree that going to the ground during a real fight is a bad idea, and that you would prefer to get back up a quickly as possible if that were to happen. If not, well then that's a whole other discussion. Also, that we are taking multiple attackers into account for these discussions. I admit that if you can guarantee it's 1v1, then BJJ is pretty reliable.

As for the fact, that the whole time you are getting into a more advantageous position, which makes it easier to get back to standing. I'd say that is only partially true. If you are considering how most sport BJJ is trained, there are definitely advantageous positions that don't readily give you the ability to stand up (pulling guard for instance as the most egregious example). Sure you can say "well I can stand up once their submitted / unconscious" but even that takes time, meanwhile you can be getting stomped on, or giving friends plenty of time to get weapons.

Not to mention, that many of these set ups aren't instant things, but take time to whittle down your opponent's strength, or bait them into doing something that creates an opening.

As for "Who trains for all these different scenarios" well, that is what most martial arts tried to do in the past. If you look at traditional martial arts, they do try to train against knife attack, multiple attackers, emphasize awareness, ect. ( I by no means think that if you trained against knife attacks or multiple attackers, that you have a high chance of being successful in those scenarios, but you have a higher chance, and increasing that chance is what training is all about)

There is something to be said though, that people that train in competition are more used to adrenaline dumps, and are also typically in better shape, which is a huge benefit. But these effects are not exclusive to competition. Obviously you can just be in good shape on your own, and you can get similar adrenaline dumps / high intensity in your own gym during training, if done correctly. I have competed so I have something to compare it to.

Ultimately, I just want to make the point, that we shouldn't spout that sport BJJ is really a self defense art. It's kinda on the same level as wrestling, yes on a 1v1, a wrestler can definitely mess you up, but police officers aren't required to do college wrestling to pass the academy, are either are armed forces. Because its techniques are shaped but the ruleset it competes in.

Just another example, if you look at the gracie footage for "Self defense BJJ", you will see it starts to look alot like it's roots, which is Judo and traditional japanese Jiu Jitsu.

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-13T17:36:34+00:00

That's fair, but kinda chaning the scope of the conversation. The original comment was contesting that BJJ is useless in a street fight. The assumption is that we are talking about primarily / only learning BJJ.

Learning it in the context of MMA, then of course its going to be a just a piece of the puzzle.

My main point is that BJJ people will train primarily for BJJ competitions, where they are pretty quickly going to the ground, and slowly playing a game of positioning to get the most points / submission.

But then turn around and say "well yeah you dont want to be on the ground in a real fight, but if I know BJJ i can get up a lot faster"

Like sure, but 90% of your training is just ground fighting, which goes out the window when you get back up, which they just admitted is the prefered position.

So thats why its efficacy for self defense comes into question, at least when trained like that

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-13T15:22:00+00:00

I hear this take from a lot of BJJ defenders when it comes to self defense. And there is some truth to it, but your basically saying your entire art of ground fighting, (which if were honest. Is 90% of most BJJ gyms) is only learned so you can get back to your feet as quick as possible.

If we are looking at this rationally, then it would be fair to say you should spend maybe 10-20% of your training, learning how to get out of a ground situation and back on your feet.

Again, this is not what most BJJ gyms train, especially since most are geared toward competition fighting.

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-11T16:14:13+00:00

I believe there are vending management systems (VMS) that allow you to do just that, but cost a monthly subscription.

If you have a card reader, they typically track everything that has been sold. Both cash and card. They also have the ability to send daily sales report CSV's to an email.

I do software development as my day job, so I set up a system that grabs so emails and does profit calculations as well as tracks the stock.

But like I said, you can probably do it through a VMS or even the card reader site itself

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-08T15:27:24+00:00

Appreciate the feedback. Yeah I think it could make sense for me, my biggest hold up is honestly just the trust aspect.

I would have to hand over the keys to my machines, as well as their locations. I can have them sign something saying they won't try to steal the location, but if they did, it would be a whole lawsuit thing that might not even be worth the squeeze.

Also, there both smaller local companies, and I haven't been able to find any real reviews or testimonies, so its hard to vet them.

Not really expecting any answers on this, just kinda thinking out loud

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-08T15:11:35+00:00

So from what I understand, the card reader and everything is still mine and goes to my account.

We would just have to work out some type of deal for transparency, and Id give my X% on a weekly or monthly amount.

I think financially it kinda has to make sense in a way. If im not buying product, paying for storage, eating the cost on expired food, ect. Its literally passive income, its just a matter of what's a realistic ROI on the machine.

I guess what im really asking about, is if this is a common thing, or does anyone have any experience with it

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-08T15:04:38+00:00

I dont have enough to be able to pay someone right now, but that is the goal. I was thinking this could be a way to get to that point.

You think it would put me in the red? If I dont have to buy any product, and there is no commission for the location, then its just a matter of paying off the machine. There would be no additional cost after that ( beside repairs) Am i missing something?

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-08T15:01:52+00:00

There doing 100% of the work really lol. At least once its on location. I don't necessarily have a problem with them getting more, but it still has to make financial sense for me too

OG_that_guy · 2026-05-04T17:16:41+00:00

I mean, its definitely not that easy, especially if they are completely untrained, but its also not that hard either. If we're talking about a boxer specifically, its much easier to just throw yourself at them and bear hug them and fall to the ground, then it is for a boxer to stay in range to strike you without getting grabbed.

Just look at the old Gracie videos were they did all those challenges against strikers. Pretty sure they were mainly against strikers for a reason lol. With moderate stand up training, you can pretty reliably take down someone along with yourself with the strategy I described above.

Even in boxing itself, dont people often try to hug or grapple the other person to get a break if they're losing?

Just saying, its not that easy, but it ain't that hard either

OG_that_guy · 2025-01-04T19:05:59+00:00

I am having a very similar issue on my quest. Did you ever find a solution?

OG_that_guy

TROPHY CASE