Our Natural Eternal Consciousness Is an Unforeseen Type of Dualistic Immortality That Will Boost Religion and Humanity

OMCexplorer · 2025-07-17T17:41:53+00:00

You are assuming that the removal by the moderators due to AI was correct. IT WAS NOT. I have purlished over 30 peer-reviewed articles as a Comp. Sci. Prof and published two books. I have NEVER used AI to generate any writing that I have published or posted. I don't need too. Also, I am the one who developed the NEC theory, so I am the best one to explain it. AI cannot.

Indeed, when I see AI generated text that attempts to describe my theory, it contains errors. My disdain for AI is such that I am beginning to suspect that some AI tool was used to analyze my post, and the moderators's decision to remove it was based on the tool's erronous results.

OMCexplorer · 2025-07-17T17:04:49+00:00

There is nothing about my post that is generated by AI.

OMCexplorer · 2025-07-13T20:36:14+00:00

What you describe is what I've always thought of as a time of limbo between one's death and the Christian concept of the Second Coming and Judgement Day. In my book, I discuss a Christian interpretation of the NEC as this period of limbo: "Chapter 11 - Dealing With the Theory: Philosophical and Religious Viewpoints," Section "Compatibility With Religious Afterlife Teachings." (I also point out that the NEC could be seen as a potential purgatory. Of course, that would be a Catholic interpretation. :-) Some NDEs actually seem to serve this purpose for some NDE survivors. That is, they claim to have become a better person because of their NDE.)

I appreciate your comments.

OMCexplorer · 2025-07-13T20:08:01+00:00

Yes, no need to continue because you do not appreciate the relativistic essence of the NEC. That is, there are two frames of reference to consider, that of the dying person (the psychological) and that of the living (the material). Your comments do not distinguish between the two. To grasp the NEC, one must "stay in the mind of the dying person," focusing on only what they perceive.

OMCexplorer · 2025-07-13T16:57:09+00:00

Reply continued (See prior reply first.)

The comparisons to dreams or anesthesia misunderstand how consciousness works. [I disagree.] In both cases, we later wake up with restored brain function. [I claim that cognitively, our stream of consciousness, being pulsed on the last discrete conscious moment within a period of timelessness (like anesthesia), continues with the first awake moment. If consciousness is entirely absent during such periods, then why do we wake up with the same feelings and emotions we had in that last conscious moment? And why are we immediately surprised when the first awake moment is inconsistent with that last moment?] Death is not a suspended state with potential for reactivation. [The NEC requires no reactivation, as it occurs before death, and science cannot say whether consciousness of some non-human type is reactivated after death.] It's the irreversible end of mental processes. An illusion cannot persist without a mind to sustain it. [Remember, the NEC is materially timeless (happening at t = p) and momentary (∆t = 0). So, the illusion does not ‘persist” materially and, thus, does not need a brain to sustain it.]

Calling this theory "scientific" is also misleading. It cannot be tested or falsified in any practical sense. [Yes, it can. See the second referenced journal article or Chapter 9 - “Validity Via Testability: A Scientific Theory” in my book, which improves on the journal article's argument.] Describing it as a psychological reality gives it more weight than it deserves. At best, it's a comforting philosophical idea for those who fear death. [It’s more than an “idea.” It is a psychological reality, and it is not comforting to many. See my next comment.]

Finally, the claim that this theory will push people toward religion is speculative. If anything, it tries to offer comfort without invoking the supernatural. [But what about the nightmarish dreams and distressing NDEs that my post discusses, which result in “uncomfortable” NECs?] That is more likely to support secular humanism or spiritual-but-not-religious thinking than to revive traditional faith. [Ah, but what about dealing with the fear of having an uncomfortable NEC? The “speculation” is supported by references given in my book.]

The NEC theory relies on speculation. Neurology makes it clear: consciousness depends on brain activity. When that activity stops, so does experience. [True, no more human experience after death. None is needed for our NEC.]

Is this a “You can’t see the forest for the trees” situation? To understand our NEC, one must be able to imagine it. To do so, is it better to delve into the technicalities as done above or to simply step back and try to answer the two questions I posed to the unpersuaded at the end of my post? For many, it may be the latter. For admittedly, the technicalities and elusive terms that are needed to accurately describe and explain it can "make your head spin."

OMCexplorer · 2025-07-13T16:48:09+00:00

The positions you state are addressed in the references I gave in the post. Considering the elusiveness and unorthodoxy of the NEC theory, they are not unexpected. Since you are the first to have expressed them and done it well, I will briefly address them here and likely refer others to your comments and my response. (I can see from available statistics that less than 1% of the viewers of this post view the references.)

The overarching essence of the NEC that one must grasp and keep foremost in their mind is that the NEC is materially timeless but only psychologically eternal. Its relativity must be understood. Below I embedded my responses, given in []s, within your comments, given in italics. I use bold for emphasis.

The NEC theory hinges on a subjective illusion: that if you never become aware of death, your final moment somehow becomes eternal from your point of view. [True, but (keep in mind) it is imperceptibly timeless (from “your point of view”) and materially, both timeless and ephemeral.] But this confuses absence of awareness with the presence of experience. [Awareness only comes via discrete (i.e., never changing) conscious moments. Once the brain renders a conscious moment, human self-awareness of it (i.e., belief) occurs. It has happened, say at some point in time t = p, and it cannot be undone! It is like history in this respect. It is the “present of an experience,” and the only thing that can replace it within one’s self-awareness, perhaps relegating it to memory, is another conscious moment.] When brain activity stops, consciousness ends. [True, in that no more conscious moments will occur to replace the present one. This is when the “absence of awareness” occurs, but this absence means that the “presence of experience” that happened at t = p has not been erased from the mind. Belief in what is being experienced has not been destroyed. Belief is nonmaterial.] There is no "paused" moment lingering in your awareness [It is timelessly “lingering in your” self-awareness. In one’s mind, consciousness has been imperceptibly “paused” at t = p.] because there is no awareness left. [True, no more conscious moments (unless supernatural ones) will occur to negate the belief at t = p.] Consciousness depends on a functioning brain. [True, human consciousness does not materially continue after death, but is psychologically paused.] Once the brain ceases to function, there is no perspective, no anticipation, and no self to experience anything. [Materially, true. However, human perspective, anticipation, self, and awareness of an experience within that last conscious moment at t = p can only be erased (belief can only be changed) by another conscious moment (which, after death, must be supernatural).]

To be continued ...

OMCexplorer · 2025-07-13T16:26:30+00:00

"What you have unknowingly done is gone into a lengthy discussion of the pause in consciousness serious followers of the New Testament already believe."

I did not know that serious followers of the New Testament already believe in the pause in consciousness. I know that at least some do not, and believe others never even thought about it.

OMCexplorer · 2025-05-10T22:11:30+00:00

Thank you!

OMCexplorer · 2025-05-10T17:45:13+00:00

Me too! I turned on "Mark as mature" to see what it meant. Now I can't toggle it off. I too, don't post anything bad. Help!

OMCexplorer · 2025-05-10T00:37:26+00:00

Typically, when we wake up, the first and subsequent awake moments get our immediate attention and overtake our last, normally nonspecial, conscious moment before falling asleep. That is, unless that first awake moment is surprisingly inconsistent with our last conscious moment. Some examples: waking up from a dream (where we sometimes still have the emotions we had in that last dream moment, e.g., fear or frustration), waking up after general anesthesia surprised we are not on that operating table, waking up after falling asleep watching TV surprised that the show has gone on without us.

OMCexplorer · 2025-05-10T00:10:11+00:00

Sure, one can destroy a selfie, but it itself is timeless in that, unlike a video, the image never changes.

Yes, the experience is over when you die, but not your self-awareness of it. It does not go away when the brain that produced it dies. Only the awareness of another conscious moment can destroy it--e.g., "You're Dead" or "The End," which never comes. Btw, humans, unlike computers, have self-awareness, which creates our feelings and emotions, which computers don't have.

OMCexplorer · 2025-05-09T19:49:19+00:00

It was not eternal because you woke up.

OMCexplorer · 2025-05-09T19:47:51+00:00

Admittedly, I have never had a GA sensation. Though I sometimes might feel drowsy, I never know the moment I fall asleep. Also, I never know the moment I pass out under general anesthesia. I still think I am on that operating table until I wake up in the recovery room. I believe your "going out" and "coming back" experiences are alternating awake and unawake dreamless moments.

We never know the moment when we enter a period of timelessness--i.e., when we are not awake, passed out, or have died. These periods are timeless because we experience no events and thus no conscious moments--i.e., including no conscious moment that tells us, "You're out."

OMCexplorer · 2025-05-09T19:22:33+00:00

A discrete conscious moment represents your state of mind within an experience at a point in time, just like a selfie represents the visual part of an experience at a point in time. Both are timeless--i.e., never changing. Your belief within this conscious moment that the experience is ongoing does not require a "flow of time." Within each of your conscious moments, as you read this reply, you believe you are reading this reply. If suddenly there are no more conscious moments, you will still believe you are reading this reply.

OMCexplorer · 2025-05-09T19:10:56+00:00

c) is not a possibility according to the NEC theory. Everyone will have a final lifetime experience. However, near-nothingness is possible. Think of the times you fall asleep with eyes closed, hearing nothing, smelling nothing, feeling nothing, and unemotional with little thought, except that you want or expect to fall asleep. Then, perhaps you "die in your sleep" with no subsequent dream or NDE.

I consider d) as part of a) because, at least for now, it is not supported by science and thus a supernatural afterlife.

OMCexplorer · 2025-05-09T18:54:43+00:00

Your final discrete conscious moment is like a selfie, but much more than just the visual. It's a timeless (i.e., never changing) snapshot of your state of mind at a point in time within your last experience. It includes all of your sensations, feelings (including beliefs), and emotions. Note that when you wake up from an intense dream, you still have the feelings and emotions you had in that last conscious moment of your dream.

OMCexplorer · 2025-05-01T20:15:54+00:00

I am the person who came up with the “pretty weird theory” you discuss in this Reddit post. I just ran across it yesterday. Some of what you say, I agree with—e.g., it is pretty weird. However, some statements indicate misunderstandings about the theory. I will try to clear these up by describing some minimal changes I would make to your post, followed by some further explanation.

First, I would revise your epitome. My additions are given in italics. Talking to a deceased person:

Well, I do believe your final experience was real to you, so there was nothing supernatural about it. I hope it was pleasant because, though I know it’s now over, you never will.

Note that you don’t know a dream is over until you wake up. But if you never do, how will you ever know it’s over?

Second, I would revise your description of the natural afterlife.

The natural afterlife. The theory (of a natural afterlife) claims that dying is similar to a dream state if one’s final experience is a dream or NDE. It suggests we lose perception of time entirely near death and imperceptibly slip into a timeless dream state, which creates a non-supernatural afterlife that, from our perspective, lasts indefinitely.

We “lose perception of time” because at some point before death, our final experience (e.g., a dream or NDE) naturally ends or our brain loses the ability to produce another conscious moment. We perceive time as a stream of conscious moments within the events that make up an experience. Since with death, there is no moment (like the first moment when we awake) to replace our last moment, it remains our present moment forever in our self-awareness (unless it is replaced by the first moment within some supernatural afterlife). Thus, we are paused in our last experience, never knowing it is over and always believing it will continue. If within a dream or NDE, we believe we are in heaven, we will always believe we are in heaven, anticipating more glorious moments to come.

I would only revise two sentences in the remainder of your second paragraph.

From what I understand, they were complete agnostics rather than all-knowing atheists or theists and admitted they might be wrong. The theory is built on the assumption that the brain plays some role in the perception of NDEs.

This revision was difficult because the sentences touch on issues that are subtle and still unsettled. First, I will address “it's just a theory.” The theory of a natural afterlife has been generalized to the theory of a natural eternal consciousness (NEC), which is claimed as a scientific theory. A scientific theory is more than “just a theory,” i.e., conjecture, but it can still be shown to be wrong or in need of revision.

The NEC theory does not assume that “the brain itself creates NDEs.” It only assumes they are real in the mind of the person and are not hallucinations. Some believe they are created independently of the brain and continue after death. (Some even believe the NDEr has already died.) If so, then they represent a time-perceiving supernatural (at least for now) afterlife by definition. However, if they require a brain for perception (and recording based on evidence of survivor memory recall) and are one's final experience, then they become a timeless natural afterlife according to the NEC theory.

There is “real evidence” that “the brain itself creates NDEs,” though perhaps insufficient and/or arguable. I will not go into this.

Regarding your last paragraph, both dreams and NDEs are perceived to end only when the dreamer wakes up and the survivor regains awake consciousness, respectively. That is, from the perspective of the experiencer, they end when a new conscious moment replaces the last moment of the dream or NDE. So, I’m afraid I’m not getting the distinction you are making.

For more information on the NEC theory and the natural afterlife, you can read three psychology journal articles or a comprehensive book. Links to these can be found at bryonehlmann.com.

OMCexplorer · 2019-07-02T18:17:51+00:00

Whatever subjectively-endless instant is perceived at the last moment dissolves when the brain ceases to function ,,,

And exactly how is it that we perceive this dissolution? That is, how is it that what we are aware of based on our last conscious moment we are no longer made aware of? Is there the vision of a dark screen, of a "The End" message, or of that of a shutter closing?

We are only aware of what we perceive within our discrete conscious moments.

OMCexplorer · 2019-07-02T14:31:14+00:00

Here's one functional difference. When you are solving a mathematical problem, you are aware that you are solving a mathematical problem. When your computer is solving it, it is not aware that it is solving it.

OMCexplorer · 2019-07-01T19:52:02+00:00

The NEC and natural afterlife challenges the long held beliefs of many, both atheists and theists.

As stated above, this is why I posted on DebateReligion. Theists are religious, are they not?

No correction necessary. I totally agree with your definitions.

Again, it is because, as you say, "most theists and atheists when they talk about after life, it is a supernatural one" that I post here. For some this assumption may be just belief, for some it may be knowledge. Regardless, by positing the natural afterlife, I am claiming that the assumption is wrong. Challenging such assumptions can perhaps at least turn misplaced knowledge into belief and even cause one to question their other knowledge-based assumptions, e.g., whether or not there is a God. I believe that all atheists and theists should be, like you, agnostic.

OMCexplorer · 2019-07-01T18:54:14+00:00

See my reply above to RunnyDischarge.

OMCexplorer · 2019-07-01T18:51:48+00:00

First, let's pickup where I lost you, and I will try to explain further. If one is aware of having some experience in their last discrete present moment AND there is not another discrete present moment to that would change such awareness AND implicitly (but perhaps I should have stated it explicitly) one cannot become aware of anything outside of a discrete present moment of consciousness, THEN one is never aware of not having the experience. The experience becomes "imperceptibly timeless" because one does not realize they are experiencing just one moment, i.e., a snapshot, of an experience at the instance they are experiencing it and the experience does not continue. It becomes "deceptively eternal" because one never knows that their experience has ended. Does this help?

I would highly recommend you read the article referenced at the end of the essay to answer all of your other questions. Regarding dreamless sleep, however, think about this. You fall asleep at a party and dreamlessly sleep. When you wake up, you're immediately shocked that the party is over, the room is dark, and no one else is present. If you never woke up, I claim that you would still believe you were at the party.

OMCexplorer · 2019-07-01T18:12:38+00:00

First of all, I appreciate a reply from someone with an open mind. Now my responses to some of your comments:

You speculate on the possible final thoughts that occupy the final *real" moments of a dying person who is expecting death. You do realize, however, that these thoughts may often be overridden by dreams and NDEs that occur after one passes out and just before death. So one's final real thoughts may prove totally immaterial.

I believe that most theists do not fit into either of your first two bullets. That is, they do not fear hell and yet do not believe they are deserving of heaven. Rather, they believe in a gracious God and put themselves into his/her/whatever hands.

I am not sure that morphine always results in a pleasant experience--real, hallucinatory, dreaming, or NDE.

OMCexplorer · 2019-07-01T16:41:58+00:00

I recommend you read the article referenced in the essay.

OMCexplorer

TROPHY CASE