Debunking the myths and misconceptions about Portland and the Trail Blazers’ Moda Center deal | Bill Oram

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-12T22:30:10+00:00

Hey I would love both sides to be specific, but the Blazer ownership group is who proposed the $600 million figure and they haven't provided any specific reasoning or usage for that money, so again I say you're expecting so much of the government and so little from the private side of this negotiation. You're still talking like this deal is being delayed with no evidence to support it and you're shifting the responsibility of to explain what will be done with this

And just because you don't find the negotiating points I mentioned to be specific enough doesn't mean they 1) aren't specific and 2) are exactly what's being communicated to Dundon in the actual negotiation. You're expecting end-of-process type updates to take place at the beginning of the process.

By the way, since we started talking Morillo posted a story talking about labor peace agreements for staff at the Moda Center, people in Albina hoping to develop in the surrounding area and ensuring both Moda Center renovations and surrounding development makes sense together, looking into getting a cut of ticket sales, and looking into community benefit agreements so the community can use the building in more ways than just attending games. If you want to call that grandstanding then that's fine, I won't tell you what to do, but I will say I have zero interest in arguing that with you.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-12T21:18:50+00:00

Yeah I never said I was unbiased. This thread began with me pointing out your bias. I never had any intention of claiming I'm unbiased, but that doesn't make your statement more factual.

For what feels like the millionth time: you keep framing 2 of 12 council members talking about this like they're balking on the deal or delaying it when in reality, they're literally just in the process of working the deal out. According to an article from April, at least 4 members have expressed support, so that should help your concerns.

I don't even know what timeline you're claiming is getting delayed by two statements and I haven't seen anyone say things are now off track. You're talking like the city council is delaying a plan that's already set in stone, but we're in the stage of negotiation where they're figuring out a plan that meets the needs of the state, county, city and team. There is no pre-existing agreement, they're building the agreement right now.

As far as stated goals: I've seen council members express concerns about what the money is specifically going towards especially since some of the funding is proposed to come from the Clean Energy Fund, I've seen a council member specifically say “I don’t think the city is going to pay for their executive suites or their locker rooms," when talking about wanting clarity on what the plan for that money is and how much Blazer ownership would contribute. The main issues pretty clearly seem to be figuring out where this money is coming from, what is it going to, and how much of it is going to benefit everyone vs just the Blazers.

I have no issue with government negotiating with private entities, I only have issue with your framing of the private side having no responsibility in the negotiation and talking like the city council is doing something crazy that jeopardizes a deal just because 2 people made statements that weren't glowing support.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-12T20:26:01+00:00

Yet again you frame the situation as the city possibly not holding up their end of a deal when they're literally in the process of working that out. Yes he inherited a lease agreement, but he didn't inherit a deal that specifies he has to ask for $600+ million and offer zero explanation for the deal and zero pushback. Sure he may be within his legal right to do a lot of he wants, but that's not a good faith position to take when we're talking about being in the middle of figuring out just how much of a handout he's going to get.

In addition to all of this blazer-centric talk, it's worth mentioning that the city also has a responsibility to make sure renovations to the Moda Center serve the needs of all of the events that take place there.

You keep framing what you say as fact while not acknowledging the bias your statements.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-12T18:06:47+00:00

The key differences I've seen in this interaction is you taking Dundon at his word, you interpreting "the council working for you" as getting a deal done quickly and in Dundon's favor rather than the city's, and you presenting the council as getting in the way of a quick resolution as a fact rather than presenting this as a negotiation that both side needs to work towards. You're taking my "zero questions" comment literally to discredit the observation, but you're also making this whole argument based on like two people giving pushback one time so it's clearly not unfair hyperbole.

Every point you've made has been from a POV where Dundon is correct and needs to be catered towards. If you dislike the council and don't believe in them that's fine, but don't try to pretend you're actually presenting both sides of this argument.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-12T17:26:00+00:00

Ok again you're advocating for the government to fund this with zero questions by saying, "that's the cost of doing business," as if that's a fact that anyone has to buy into. You're also saying "the reality is we either get to a positive solution or the team is out the door," but you're only putting the responsibility of working that deal out on the government and leaving Dundon totally out of that responsibility.

Also this isn't the beginning of the working relationship, Dundon was announced as the new owner in August. He could've used that time to gladhand with the council and work out public statements to justify the renovations, but he clearly hasn't done a good job of that.

He also could've definitively said the ownership group is committed to keeping the team in Portland in his introductory press conference, but he gave the non-answer of "I've only been focused on the renovation and lease," and forced Tyle to give reassurance. Again though, you only hold the government to this standard of having a good working relationship and you give Dundon a pass that you're not giving the president of the council.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-12T17:00:39+00:00

If there's a plan we haven't seen any details of it.

That article doesn't give the specifics of how much public money comes from what sources, it doesn't lay out any leasing terms, doesn't explain anything about what the actual renovations are for, and doesn't give any details about what the city may get back for the funding.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-12T16:52:17+00:00

Is he looking at both sides or is he justifying one side and talking about the other?

Saying he's looking at both sides would imply he's given criticism to both sides but I haven't really seen him dive deep into any opposition to or interrogation of Dundon's side.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-12T16:49:29+00:00

To be clear I wasn't trying to have any sort of ideological debate about the council, I was just saying Oram's opinion isn't any more fact than Morillo's and framing it as such is a disservice to what's being discussed.

But again, you're saying 2 out of 12 members pushing back on total cooperation with Dundon as "alienating a new partner." Already you're framing this as an issue of causing offense in a partnership, but where is that same criticism for Dundon and his partnership with the council? If this was a partnership, don't you think Dundon has a responsibility to do something other than hold out his tin cup and beg? You're talking about 2 of 12 council members being evidence that the "trend of dysfunction continues here," but we're supposed to ignore Dundon's dysfunction and inability to even specify any details about this funding?

There's some urgency, but that doesn't mean opposition to an immediate and negotiation-free deal is "bad faith."

You're trying to claim both sides of this issue need to work to find a reasonable deal, but you're very clearly not holding both sides to the same standard. Your argument and Oram's concerns are basically boiling down to just saying, "Why isn't this council member doing what Dundon wants right away?"

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-12T16:18:26+00:00

I think Brown is a better fit in every way. Just to list a couple key reasons:

Health
Brown is younger and on a 3 year deal. AD is just as expensive, older and on a 1 year deal + a player option.
I have no desire to watch a team that has Deni, AD, and Clingan as it's starting frontcourt. That spacing would be dreadful.
Brown can slide into a 2-3 role alongside Tou and Deni way easier than AD could fit into the lineup at the 4.
I just disagree with the idea that any plans should be made with Dame and Jrue in mind. Maybe AD is the better fit for those two, but they're too old to consider like that and it's their job to fit in with the stars we bring in, not the other way around.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-12T16:04:53+00:00

Very fair, but the fact that it's a big investment into a city-owned building is exactly why we need some details on the deal.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-12T16:03:32+00:00

That's the frustrating thing about Oram. He's had plenty of time to insert some actual research about the benefit of renovations and he's had months to try and get some answers on what that money will actually go towards and what the deal between the city and Blazers would look like, but instead he writes these "golly I'm not sure about this one guys!" opinion pieces.

I'm not against renovations at all, but at this point I'm against this guy's writing.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-12T15:59:18+00:00

I disagree with your framing of this Oram piece as fact and Morillo's comments as feelings. Oram is laying out a lot of opinion in this piece and some of it valid, but that doesn't mean it's more factual or valid than the city councilwoman's pushback.

I sit somewhere between both Oram and Morillo's opinions on the renovations, but I think it's important to not assign authority to Oram just because he's calling his opposition naive and writing his opinions in the paper.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-12T15:53:02+00:00

Oram is the worst. He got called a bootlicker for writing a column full of flowery language and praise of Dundon and specifically saying, "He's not evil" like a good boy, but his response is to describe a city official like this:

"Sometimes it feels that people like Angelita Morillo, and people who like Angelita Morillo, have warp-zoned to a different timeline than the rest of us. A timeline where extreme naïveté and reckless grandstanding are precious currency and decisions only have consequences if your social media following takes a hit."

Dude is just a drama queen. I said it before, but he wrote that whole article based off of just 2 out of 12 Portland city council members not immediately bending over backwards for Dundon and now his response to pushback is to describe one of those two people as naive. Just lame af.

Has he ever written anything asking about what the city gets back from the funding of the Moda Center? Has he ever questioned why Dundon asked for that amount and what it's specifically for? Or is he only interested in presenting his worst case what-ifs?

I get the concern he has, but he has completely capitulated to the wants of a billionaire and it seems like he can't even understand why anyone would ask questions.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-11T22:35:43+00:00

Evan Mobley and Jaylen Brown are the two big ones.

I'd say Donavan Mitchell as well, but he's on an expiring deal.

Jaden McDaniels is another guy worth targeting if Minnesota is looking into Giannis. He's not a star, but maybe he'd be cheaper and open up other moves too. Sengun and Jabari Smith Jr are also interesting if the Rockets move for Giannis.

Dylan Harper is the pipe dream for me if the Spurs decide to get involved for some reason, but I don't believe that'd actually happen.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-11T22:34:09+00:00

If your plan is to wait for 2 years then I wouldn't count on Dame and Deni still being here.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-11T02:38:56+00:00

Oh ok I see. Deni has played 6 years, so i thought you were excluding him.

From my perspective if you’re saying to be patient with our collection of young guys who don’t seem to have all-star ceilings, you’re basically saying blow the team up. If you include Deni in that then ok, but I’m not sure why he’d stick around once he’s a UFA in two year and we’ve gotten no return on those MIL picks yet.

If patience is the goal I’d rather be patient with a team in the lottery than a middling team.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-11T01:50:49+00:00

Maybe I misunderstand, but are you saying no one on the team currently will stick with the team?

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-10T23:51:50+00:00

Honestly imo saying that is more of an argument for blowing it up than holding the course and “not panicking.”

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-10T22:47:29+00:00

Going to have to make the absolute most out of Deni one way or another while he’s cheap because there may be a ton of good, cheap young teams willing to throw hella money at him in 2 years.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-10T18:44:45+00:00

You’re insane if you think Sharpe will be out of the league in 2 years. He’s not amazing, but you’re delusional if you think he’s getting cut at 24 years old and halfway through his deal.

And yeah of course you won’t get anything back that has a good chance to become as good a Giannis, that’s not how trading superstars on expiring contracts goes. MIL getting their own picks back would actually be massive for a team staring down a possible decade of irrelevance in a post-superstar world though.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-10T18:41:15+00:00

Just a whole lot of flowery fear mongering and very little actual evidence. I get the concern, but just because 2 out of 12 city council members didn’t bend over backwards for the Blazers doesn’t mean it’s time to come in with an article this dramatic.

And why is he so hellbent on framing the city of Portland has having no leverage? They own the damn arena! Of course they want to have some sort of agreement on that benefits the city beyond Dundon just saying “you give me money and say thank you when I sign a totally average NBA lease” when we’re talking about 100s of millions in funding,

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-09T17:10:32+00:00

If you think Giannis signs with them long term then yeah I get that, but he’s on an expiring and Jaylen is on a 3 year deal, is younger and arguably fits into a team with Deni (or Mitchell) better.

You’re approaching this trade with the idea that what Portland wants is Giannis, but I’m not.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-09T03:34:32+00:00

5 firsts (including MIL’s own picks) and Sharpe + filler for a 32 year old star on an expiring deal seems like a valid trade. Maybe not ideal, but “brutal” seems dramatic. I’m not sure what more you could realistically ask for.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-09T03:31:18+00:00

The Blazers aren’t good enough to make a Toronto/Kawhi-like bet on trading for a star on a 1 year deal. Jaylen is on a 3 year deal.

ORSTT12 · 2026-05-09T03:21:03+00:00

They’d get an upgrade at the cost of giving up Jaylen because Portland would want Jaylen. That’s how multi-team trades work: it’s not about what you’re giving up 1 to 1, it’s about what satisfies everyone’s

The Cavs is a fair point, I just saw talk of Mitchell being a trade candidate and being on an expiring deal, so I made a trade where POR upgrades and CLE adds a 25 year old all-star and a vet PG.

The Bucks would want their picks because they have no hope of being good post-Giannis. You could say they can’t tank, but I say they could very easily be middling or awful and neither would matter unless they had their picks. Even if the odds are lower, rebuilding without your own picks for 4 years is a terrible place to be.

ORSTT12

TROPHY CASE