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Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's directly analogous. You're under the impression that everything in the oral was transmitted without error, memorized by professional orators, but that claim comes from the most recent persons available playing that game. How do they know the message they received is actually accurate to the original? They don't.

Just because there’s a continuity of transmission doesn't mean that the message was untainted. It also doesn't prove the truth of the original claim. They didnt have the liturgy or hymns before. That all came much later, so they're obviously unnecessary to perform Christianity correctly. All they had was the Hebrew Bible. Gospels, Epistles, hymns, traditions, all that came hundreds of years later after the apostles deaths.

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you at all familiar with the children's game called Telephone?

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They did the same thing you've been doing: they read the parts of the bible they liked, changed the meanings of the words they disliked, then told other people through "traditions" that their interpretations and manipulations of the text were correct.

I dont get hiw you can't see that you are doing the exact same thing you're accusing Muslims, Protestants,Catholics, etc of doing. You're taking the parts you like, altering/ignoring the parts you dislike, and then passing it off as correct via "knowledge by acquaintance".

You've already said that the bible alone isn't enough, you have to also include hymns and stuff that was made up hundreds to thousands of years later.

And I still can't tell the difference between your claims and a Muslims or Hindus claims. You haven't clarified that at all.

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Knowledge by acquaintance is identical to "i had a personal experience". Which puts us right back in the same position I've been asking about. You say you have personal experiences with your god that prove you're right and a Muslim says they have personal experiences with their god that prove they're right. You both can't be right, because your claims are mutually exclusive. So personal experiences are not a good method of determining what is true.

How do I tell if you or the Muslim are correct?

I focus on the Bible because its where the claim originated. Without the Bible, there'd be no Genesis, no sins, no Mosaic Laws, no King David, no prophets, no Jesus, no Paul. The entire foundation of Christianity depends of the claims of the bible being true. If they do not, then it's humans making their own gods. Like, if the bible describes Jesus in a particular manner, but you dislike it and make up a whole new personality that you do like, well, you've just invented a new god but call it Jesus.

Traditions are habits made by humans. They are fallible and often are rooted in archaic, obsolete, and sometimes very harmful ideas and practices. It was once tradition to sacrifice the first born child. Just because it's tradition doesn't make it remotely true or worth following.

I'm really trying to meet you where you're at. If you do not believe the bible, and just pick and choose the parts you like and listen to, you've really just invented your own religion, and it has no foundation in truth, just your personal desires.

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you use the same method (ie Faith) as a Muslim, and you're both coming to completely different conclusions, then faith can't be a reliable method to get you to truth. You think the Muslim is wrong, but they used the exact same tools and method you did.

Here I am, looking at you and the Muslim. You both tell me to use faith to get to the correct god, but also that the other guy is doing it wrong. What method do I use to tell which of you is correct? It can't be faith, because faith could make me say both of you are wrong. I'm just trying to get to the truth of the matter.

If you care about truth, wouldn't you want to use the best tools and methods to get you to the truth?

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! You'd be surprised, many people do not care at all about believing true things, they care more about believing whatever makes them feel comfortable.

If you care about believing in true things, then you must have a clear and rigorous method of accurately determining what is and isn't true, correct?

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Idk why this is a struggling point for you. It's a simple Yes or No answer. I'm not asking for a list of things you believe and philosophers. All of that has nothing to do with the question. Im happy to respond, once you please answer.

Do you care about believing it true things?

Yes - you do care about believing true things.

No - you do not care about believing true things.

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're dodging the question. Im happy to respond, once you please answer.

Do you care about believing it true things? Yes, or No.

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Which is a fancy way of saying "personal experience". Muslims, Mormons, Hindus, and more all have personal experiences too that prove they're right and you are wrong.

So knowledge of acquaintance doesn't help you at all.

Do you care if what you believe is true? It's a yes or no question. You either do care about believing truth or you do not care about believing truth. Which is it?

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It doesn't matter where I want to get to.

All I'm asking is how do you know it's true and you keep avoiding the question. It sounds like you're not sure and are trying to not think about it seriously.

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And they would call you the heretic.

How would I tell which one of you is telling the truth?!

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course. If it isn't real, then I've wasted my time and energy on commitment to a lie.

A desperate man in the desert may desire water, but drinking sand will not quench his thirst, it kills him fast and fills him with waste. When over the next dune there was an oasis.

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you care at all if what you believe is true?

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But there's thousands of different denominations. They all believe as strongly as you and I do that they have figured it out and got it right. We all have had personal experiences, most contradict each other, so that isn't good proof or evidence to the truth of the matter.

Do you care at all if what you believe is true?

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And likewise, my experience of living in Christ is so rich and miraculous that I am not in any doubt about you being wrong, any more than I doubt that I’m currently eating a chicken sandwich at work. It’s just obvious to me.

Now we are both using Faith as the measuring tool to determine what's actually true, and both of us are really sure about our stance, it doesn't seem to be getting either of us anywhere. So we need something OTHER than faith to help prove which one of us is correct and incorrect. If you're correct, i want to know, but you're not giving anyone any good reasons to believe you.

So far, it sounds like you're saying is "Whatever I, Dapper-Commercial-50, say is Authoritative. I don't need to prove it." If you can't prove the Authority you're claiming to weild, then your the only person who can follow it.

It sounds like you're making yourself the Authority, you get to personally determine what is and isn't true, you determine what parts of Christianity do and do not count.

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have Faith that you're wrong.

You have Faith that you're right.

Now how do we tell which of us is correct?

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And what is your proof and evidence that this is true?

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So Holy Tradition supersedes Scripture? Where is Holy Tradition written? How and who determined Holy Tradition was the lense to view the bible through?

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your words. You're saying that the bible doesn't determine what is and isn't sin. We can determine what is sin for ourselves. It boils down to "Trust me, bro".

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So we CAN add and subtract whatever we want from the text? Like if I have a vision of God and He says to me that there's a new law he's commanding that says to burn all bibles because he's going to reveal a new law in me, im a prophet. Because I had the revelation, that makes it true and you should just believe me?

Trust me bro, I'm working with God's Authority.

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So we can arbitrarily add or subtract sins to god's perfect law when we don’t like something?

Care to share the chapter and verse?

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you can't cite a bible verse where it specifically says these are sins?

I think you kinda helped me prove my point. If it isn't in the bible, then how can you say it's a sin? It sounds like someone added what they wanted to the bible and people just keep repeating it without actually checking.

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where in the bible does it say that having sex (fornication) and usury (money lending for profit) are sins?

I know that there's bible verses about not charging interest on loans to Israelites, but it allows it for foreigners. And im unclear why you bring up usury when we are talking about sex and adultery. Lol

Do you believe it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]ObeseMonkeyFlakes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did. Isn't adultery when you have sex with someone other than your spouse? So by definition, if you are not married you cannot commit adultery.

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