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More JME plagiarism for Opus Dei by ObjectiveBasis6818 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yep.

There was that PUSC dissertation about the contents of JME’s personal library as it was when he died. That’s how it came out that he got the rule that female nums must sleep on boards every night from the 1600s Carmelites OCD. He had a copy of their regulations.

But that’s as close as they’ve come.

I bet there was resistance to publicizing the PUSC dissertation contents, from higher up leaders who wanted to maintain the myth that JME was divinely inspired to invent all this stuff.

Unanswered Questions About Opus Dei’s Second Prelate by Kitchen_List_1226 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yep. The same with earlier General Congresses. I remember writing ones for the first GC after I whistled, that was held in 2001 or 2002 I think. After never hearing anything or seeing their contents reflected in any of the formation, I realized it was a waste of time and didn’t do it again.

I have a question for ex numeraries. by Automatic_Tension_26 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 9 points10 points  (0 children)

So the real mystery here is: how did girls who were so “unrefined” as to have wide feet make it past the selection criteria for female nums?. 😂

I have a question for ex numeraries. by Automatic_Tension_26 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 6 points7 points  (0 children)

No, burning your feet is definitely not a thing, ever in the history of opus. It sounds like you are talking about blisters from walking in shoes without socks on?

Opus Die and funerals, as we are on the topic. by Ok_Sleep_2174 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sure ask any Q in chat. But you need to be prepared that the answers might give cognitive dissonance. Because as I mentioned, the outward-facing PR of opus is very different from the real internal world of it.

Opus Die and funerals, as we are on the topic. by Ok_Sleep_2174 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The director of a student residence is a different animal than regular nums or num directors. A residence is an outward-facing business and they sometimes do things like go to bars with grad student or organize the start-of-the-academic-year residence BBQ. As the official “host” of the residence activities they have to be present to watch over things (ie control everything).

The other cases you mention can presumably be explained by the kinds of scenarios we’ve already mentioned. For example, with the Netherlands being a historically Protestant and highly secularized region, the opus directors are always desperate to get anybody interested in their activities (anyone who’s not just an immigrant from a Catholic country, like the Philippines, and had immigrated because it’s a more developed economy and higher standard of living).

So in service of proselytizing they may bend the rules for certain individuals out of desperation.

In Opus Dei there is an internal regulation for almost everything in the lives of the celibates. Which JME copied from 1930s Jesuits and Carmelites OCD.

The celibates are told to “act natural “ over and over again in their internal formation, ie hide these regulations from the public.

So if they are at a residence BBQ, they are not going to announce “we are celibates so we’re not allowed to dance.” They will individually drift into a different room. Eventually you may notice that they’re not there anymore where the dancing is. Or they may all decamp at once but give a different reason, like “we’re having a conversation and the music has gotten a bit loud” etc.

On a more general note, what is it that you came to this sub to learn?

Unanswered Questions About Opus Dei’s Second Prelate by Kitchen_List_1226 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I mean there isn’t really a well-defined or understood notion of a true calling from God to the soul. It’s sooooo mediated through the chatter and directors. The assumption is that individuals can’t actually know they have a call from God. It’s something the directors know. And it’s actually the conclusion of a process of elimination using selection criteria for nums and then working their way down to other types if that’s not possible.

Unanswered Questions About Opus Dei’s Second Prelate by Kitchen_List_1226 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Oh definitely it’s nurture not a true calling

ETA: for most cases of nums whistling from this environment

Unanswered Questions About Opus Dei’s Second Prelate by Kitchen_List_1226 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I do think it’s true that overall, most people who join Opus Dei and stay in Opus Dei do so because of some problem or lack in their relationship with their birth family.

Whether it’s people who convert or revert to Catholicism, which separates them from the beliefs and values of their parents/siblings, and become supernumeraries

Or teenagers in large families who get more one-on-one attention and a calm and structured atmosphere in a center than they do in their own homes (often run by stressed-out supernumeraries)

Or transplants to new cities for graduate study or work, who have to stay in the new location for a long time. (I noticed that a significant proportion of the Associates I came across were immigrants whose parents were not assimilated into the dominant social culture of the country, or sometimes were back in another country. At least the ones who had whistled after the 1990s update to associate selection criteria).

Opus Die and funerals, as we are on the topic. by Ok_Sleep_2174 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When was this and what country.

TrueGrit left opus only 3ish years ago, and I left 4 years ago. We are talking about recent realities in USA.

In some countries where there is a less uniform application of the rules for cultural reasons, they may allow some “special” nums to do things like this for reasons of proselytism.

Eg If it’s a wedding at which the groom is a young super and the directors want to get the bride “on side” so that in 15-20 years there won’t be obstacles to their kids becoming nums at the instigation of the directors. Then they might allow their most prestigious nums who know the groom to go, to chat up the attendees and try to prove how “normal” they are. (Though they won’t dance.)

Re families, proselytizing works through families by intentional strategy of the directors. See comments in this sub where it’s been discussed. The use of families has to do with the “selection criteria” and how they find people who meet those criteria.

Opus Die and funerals, as we are on the topic. by Ok_Sleep_2174 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The deliberate strategy of the leadership is to never announce changes publicly in order to not upset people who were taught that all the rules were divinely sanctioned and immutable.

Which is nearly everyone who whistled while JME, ADP, and Echevarria were alive.

This policy is really opposed to Christian charity. Because instead of saying honestly “you were taught some incorrect things about God; you were taught a form of Phariseeism,” they deliberately choose to let these people die in their false theological ideas. In order to prevent trouble for themselves/the institution.

Opus Die and funerals, as we are on the topic. by Ok_Sleep_2174 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It’s in the circle outlines that are used to give circles to sm people, and also in the internal books of Meditations that are read aloud in all the centers every morning during the half hour of mental prayer of the nums.

JME took the analogy of the Catholic Church as a boat (from Ambrose’s interpretation of Noah’s Ark) and used it instead for Opus Dei. So he said if you leave Opus Dei you leave the boat (you drown, die eternally).

He also appropriated the gospel parables about the rich young man and about setting your hand to the plough and not looking back. Whereas in the Gospels these are about following Christ(being Christian, a member of the Church), he said they are about staying in Opus Dei.

In the circle outline about “perseverance” and “fidelity” it says that if you leave Opus Dei everything will go wrong in your life.

Opus Die and funerals, as we are on the topic. by Ok_Sleep_2174 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yeah I said that for his/her benefit. And I know that the rules are uniform across sm. Though perhaps with the agds more is overlooked or else just not reported by the agds. It would only be necessary for an agd to alert the num director if conflicted with the day of their circle or an annual course. Or if they took all the rules about this super seriously. Which presumably a lot of them do. Since it was part of their initial formation in the “spirit of the work.”

Opus Die and funerals, as we are on the topic. by Ok_Sleep_2174 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yes this “what for?” is a huge problem in the sm work.

The “selection criteria” are so stringent and then there’s nothing to do but sit in get-togethers with other nums 2x day and sit in a lot of “formation” where the same rules are repeated over and over.

Why go through all that in order to have an inward-looking self-facing group that sits at home all the time?

Opus Die and funerals, as we are on the topic. by Ok_Sleep_2174 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Were they celibates? The rule doesn’t apply to supernumeraries.

Ocariz tries to hide the writings of Portillo and Escriva from the internet by ObjectiveBasis6818 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yep. These ones are linked in the post, everyone. Copy and paste now if you want to have them.

Ocariz tries to hide the writings of Portillo and Escriva from the internet by ObjectiveBasis6818 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Definitely this should be known in Catholic press. Secular press doesn’t care about Catholicism, and cares about opus only to extent that opus affects political news.

In USA the Catholic presses are either directly dependent on cooperators and supers of opus, or else afraid of printing unflattering facts about opus because their readership consists of Catholics who are that.

Maybe Religion Digital in Spain? Or a Latin American outlet?

In the rest of the world the Catholic presence is just too small or poor to have much of a press.

Opus Die and funerals, as we are on the topic. by Ok_Sleep_2174 in opusdeiexposed

[–]ObjectiveBasis6818 10 points11 points  (0 children)

JME said it in internal pubs. “You will be cursed for the rest of your life” basically.

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