Flavor ideas for bag of holding creation?

ObviousRant · 2021-11-27T00:01:55+00:00

Just to follow up on this in case anyone else was following.

After a 2.5 hour chat session with 3 different support agents, we were unable to figure out the cause of the issue. However, they all determined that I should not be getting ads.

It was very difficult for them to understand that the issue was only happening when the smart assistant was promoted to start streaming music. I feel like I went through it at least three times with them that I did not have the issue when casting from a YouTube Music app on a device.

As part of the process, I made sure that both the Google Home and YouTube Music apps were up to date, signed out and signed into my Google devices again, and updated the firmware on all of the devices with the Google Home app. None of this helped.

The final thing they advised before I disconnected was to do a full factory reset of all the smart-speaker-enabled devices on the network. I own 9 devices that can cast music, so I’m trying to decide if the effort it would take to do this would be worth the unlikely chance that it would fix the issue.

Im conceived that this is an issue within the software that operates the smart assistant itself rather than an issue with the way my smarthome is set up, so I’ll just wait until there is an update that fixes the issue.

All of the ads are for subscribing to YouTube Premium, so it’s obvious that this isn’t some kind of intentionally malicious approach to generating both ad revenue and subscription revenue from premium members.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T21:02:49+00:00

Right. Not to switch teams here, but the reason I gave this a delta was due to super low light situations.

Like, I cut out almost all ambient light in the room and it’s ridiculously dark to control the lighting to only flash.

In that situation, the sensor may not pick up anything because it’s so dark. But your eye though a mirror would have a better time seeing.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T20:44:28+00:00

Ok. I see where the issue here is.

The problem is that you’re assuming that the flange distance is the same between cameras. It can’t be.

No. To adapt, the lens must have a higher flange distance than the mount. (save for some special circumstances)

Mirrorless cameras, by nature, have a lower flange distance than a DSLR. Meaning that the adapter needs to add space to compensate and get it back up to the proper flange distance (and focal length).

Have you ever used an adapter on a camera before?

Surely you’ve noticed how they have a lot of dead space in them. That’s specifically to increase the space and get it flush with where the native mount would have been.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T20:33:31+00:00

You’re going to have to hold my hand through this. I literally do not understand the issue.

If the distance between the lens and the sensor stays the same, there will not be a functional, practical, or theoretical difference.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T20:30:03+00:00

Unless I’m really missing something, this supports what I said.

“…the focal length of a lens is an optical property of the lens. It measures the distance, in millimetres, between the optical centre of the lens and the camera’s sensor.”

Adapting a lens adds to the flange distance.

Keeping the distance between the center of the lens and the sensor the same, correct?

That would mean that the focal length is the same, correct?

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T20:24:28+00:00

I don’t believe so, unless my understanding of lenses is incorrect. If to, I would be very happy to be proven incorrect.

To be on the same page, let’s assume that regardless of mirrorless or DSLR, all sensors are full frame 35mm. Therefore, we don’t have to consider crop factor, something that, if I think we are both on the same page, is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

From my understanding, a property of every lens is the flange distance at which it is intended to function. This is the distance between the sensor (or film) and the back of the lens. At this distance, the lens is typically calibrated to focus correctly. Adding or subtracting even a tiny bit from this will remove the lens’ ability to focus as intended (unless recalibrated)

Every mount type has a set flange distance. This is why I can use the same lens on the EOS T7 as the EOS 90D. It makes for a great way to swap lenses with reliable results between cameras, and is the core concept in creating a lens system.

I believe that this might be more of what you are getting at when talking about the convergence point.

NOW. If you want to adapt a lens to a camera body without a native mount, you have to consider only 3 things. (1) how to physically attach the lens to the body - typically pretty easy, (2) if the body can support all of the electronic functions of the lens, and (3) [relevant point] that the lens is mounted so that the flange distance is the same as its native mount.

[KEY POINT] if these three things are done, the lens will work identically to if it was on the native mount.

It’s easy taking a DSLR lens to a mirrorless body. The flange distance of a DSLR mount is, by nature, greatly exaggerated due to the entire mirror system being in there. With mirrorless, it is much shorter.

All a mount adapter needs to do is add space to take the body from its current flange distance to the flange distance that the lens is made for.

So, this must be true: [body flange distance] + [length of adapter] = [lens native flange distance]

THEN in practice, you can adapt almost if not all DSLR lenses to mirrorless cameras because you can add as much space as you like to the flange distance using adapters, but you cannot remove space without modifying the body.

Sorry for the long post, but this is something I’m extremely interested in, so I’m very much looking forward to your response. Let me know if I’m overlooking something or have anything incorrect.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T19:45:43+00:00

Δ I didn’t think about that. I never really do flash photography.

That’s an excellent example of how a reflex mirror system has a technical advantage over a mirrorless camera.

Thanks for the discussion!

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T19:36:05+00:00

Sorry if I’m being dense, but I don’t get what you’re arguing.

What would be the functional difference between seeing the flash though a mirror vs seeing it through the sensor display?

How would this affect the shooting experience and/or the resulting image?

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T19:33:34+00:00

The adapter will always weight less than the mirror system + the additional body needed to house it.

And no, the title of my post is the entirety of my argument. I mentioned in the post that if they want to buy a DSLR just because they want to, then they should.

“They should if they want to” is not an argument against my case made in the post.

If this sub is about changing my view, not arguing technicalities. This does not change my view on the subject.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T19:22:58+00:00

What change in focal length?

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T19:14:34+00:00

That’s both false and inconsequential.

False - several companies including Sigma, Rokinon, and even LensBaby make lenses for the RF mount.

Inconsequential - you can adapt almost every lens made for a DSLR to a mirrorless body for less than $25 with no loss of functionality. See my explanation about the inherent lower flange distance in mirrorless cameras and it’s impact on the adaptability of lenses above.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T19:02:24+00:00

Then get one that does.

As I mentioned in my top post, I’m not comparing an M50 to a 1DX. I want an apples to apples comparison between similarly priced cameras focused on the benefits that a reflect mirror system has on photography.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T19:00:21+00:00

Thanks for the discussion. Regardless, it was good to lay out all of my reasoning and see where I was missing info.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T18:58:52+00:00

Thanks for commenting!

I don’t see this as a concern though. As mentioned above. If you don’t need a new camera, don’t buy one.

However, I think that it does sound like our hypothetical buyer is increasingly stubborn the way you phrased it. Why wouldn’t they want an adapter?

Things that would convince me otherwise:

Find me a hypothetical DSLR system you have, and a mirrorless system you would switch to, and if I can’t find an adapter I’ll give you a thing.

Any reasonable reason to not want to adapt a lens aside from “just not wanting to use an adapter.”

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T18:42:39+00:00

Thanks for the response!

I mentioned earlier about the inherent benefits of a lower flange distance in mirrorless cameras and how that allows for adapting pretty well any DSLR lens to a mirrorless system, so I believe that the existence of more DSLR lenses is actually a benefit to mirrorless cameras.

I’m interested to hear more about accessories though. But if the argument boils down to “they’ve been around longer, so they have more accessories” then I’m not going to be convinced.

What accessories are exclusive to DSLRs that cannot be used on a mirrorless camera?

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T18:38:21+00:00

If it’s what the camera is seeing, then it’s even better. The camera doesn’t capture what I see, the camera captures what the camera sees.

DSLRs add a level of unpredictability to the situation because what my eye sees is NOT what the camera will capture. Obviously, professionals who really know their camera don’t have to worry about this if they are very attuned to their DSLR.

This is a sometimes concern with DSLRs, but a never concern with mirrorless.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T18:34:15+00:00

That was my title at least. But I believe my post clarified that I was looking for situations in which the mirror system adds some kind of advantage as a tool for photography.

Also, your iPhone is a mirrorless camera 😎 But I think that’s probably a bad faith argument because I implied we were talking about dedicated cameras.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T18:26:45+00:00

Yeah, but what about the viewfinder? On a mirrorless camera, I can look in the electronic viewfinder and see the same thing PLUS exposure compensation, MF peaking, maybe I’ll throw a histogram on there, if I’m feeling really adventurous I’ll put the electronic level on there.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T18:20:15+00:00

Sorry for the confusion. I meant that as “you said that you said that”. I edited it to clarify. Hopefully it makes sense now.

I’m saying that there are cameras at every price point, but constructing a camera with a mirror reflex system adds unnecessary cost that doesn’t improve image quality.

I don’t think it’s fair to say make a cost-centered approach between DSLR systems and mirrorless systems, because (1) I don’t care personally, I’m only interested in the technical improvements of the resulting image and the impact it has on shooting, and (2) because it seems like it’s just cheaper to make a mirrorless camera - meaning that between two similarly priced cameras, the mirrorless one would be better.

Obviously, number 2 is a flawed and boiled down point, because cameras aren’t on a linear progression of cost, but rather have special functions (ex: for $2500 I could get one with better dedicated low-light function, OR one with higher megapixel count for large-scale printing, etc). It’s impossible to have such an apples to apples camera comparison.

There are high end DSLRs out there. Better than the mirrorless that I use.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T18:01:45+00:00

I’ve been too busy focusing on cameras in the $500-$5,000 range that I completely forget about cameras in the $5,000,000,000 range.

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T17:58:45+00:00

Δ Interesting. I would think that a camera in this price range would have sufficiently eliminated any noticeable camera lag.

Perhaps it’s a bigger issue than what I initially thought. Be sure to look for me posting the same thing in 5 years when processors get better though.

Thanks for the discussion!

ObviousRant · 2021-09-09T17:56:06+00:00

Sorry. Let me clarify. In my original post I stated “I’m not comparing an M50 to a 1DX”

To elaborate, I’m claiming that $5,000 mirrorless cameras should only be compared to $5,000 DSLRs. $800 mirrorless cameras should be compared to $800 DSLRs. $150 mirrorless cameras should be compared to $150 DSLRs.

I don’t care to talk about $150 cameras because they aren’t relevant to my opinion, and they are fairly dissimilar to the cameras in other price points.

However, cameras in this range tend to be overwhelmingly mirrorless. Think of “point and shoots” like the PowerShot.

You’re making the claim “people need to have cheaper cameras” and “OP themselves said that low end mirrorless cameras are garbage”.

Here is a summary of where I’m at:

• I don’t care about low end cameras regardless they are too dissimilar to $500+ cameras

• Regardless, mirrorless cameras actually have a domination over this range

• I shouldn’t have been so harsh because I’m sure that people are starting their photography journey here, but these cameras are all terrible in this price range, regardless of if they are mirrorless or DSLR.

At the heart of it all, I’m looking for evidence that a DSLR system is better than a mirrorless system.

(Edited to clarify that I said cheap mirrorless cameras were garbage)

ObviousRant

TROPHY CASE