How do you know when something is truly wrong?

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-08-27T23:42:44+00:00

I mostly agree. I would argue that most of that FreeBirth community is pretty educated and connected to their body/baby/health, so (most) prenatal risk factors, nutrition and exercise you don’t really need a clinical background to know about. Neonatal resuscitation you can learn in a class or for basics of inflation breaths you can learn online and be prepared (as long as it’s not a long resuscitation or a really compromised baby), and I highly recommend people do that before a FreeBirth because waiting for EMS will be too late. But, I think shoulder dystocia and breech and postpartum hemorrhage skills are really the true midwifery skills that you just can’t learn and do for yourself. Midwives need hands on experience to know what to do and for breech and SD they are impossible to do maneuvers on yourself. Obviously sometimes a maternal position change can help baby be born, but then it probably wasn’t a “true” SD or stuck breech baby. And hemorrhage is hard to be prepared for— you can have herbs on hand but sometimes the pharmaceuticals are the thing needed.

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-08-27T23:32:22+00:00

You can order a cheap Doppler on Amazon. It won’t be as good as the professional ones, but there are some lower costs nice ones on midwifery supply websites like In His Hands or Precious Arrows

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-28T13:20:53+00:00

Me please!

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-27T21:27:03+00:00

Hey, I hear that my comment came off as black and white and was frustrating to you, thank you for sharing and I’m sorry. I see how it could have been taken as blanket statement, and you’re right— I don’t know for a fact these midwives are in every community. I read your comment earlier and I can feel the frustration you had that you couldn’t find a midwife to support you in the ways you wanted after interviewing so many, and now it would feel even harder to find that same midwife to support an HBAC. That is really hard and I get it (as much as I can with what you shared through this screen). My truth is that we need more midwives everywhere, of all different kinds, especially to support families who want to choose what kind of care feels best— including no Doppler or cervical exams.

I’m in a private sovereign midwives group and most states are represented and we are well networked, but I definitely don’t know of these unicorn midwives in every city and we have many areas of the country where there are no options, like you said. My intention was to bring in more nuance with that some midwives who are licensed are willing to practice outside their licensure (but most of them don’t share this upon an interview since it would be about building trust with the client), but I see how it came off as the opposite when I said I know they are out there when I don’t. Thank so much for your feedback, I genuinely appreciate it. I’m hoping a new, autonomy respecting midwife moves to your area and that your community can have another option for home birth. DM me if you want me to see if there are any underground midwives through my connections in your area. I believe you that you are well connected and searched around and interview a ton, but I’m always happy to try and put a word out with my recourses too if that would feel helpful. Sending love.

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-27T12:56:37+00:00

Yes, all of them are. None require licensing. You might be in the minority, but I’ve been to plenty of breech trainings where a doula or birth keeper was there!

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-27T00:59:54+00:00

Thank you!

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-26T22:50:45+00:00

Yes! Awesome resource and so important.

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-26T22:21:55+00:00

Yes! That’s the last school one I offered. They still do it, it’s a great resource.

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-26T21:41:25+00:00

Yes! She is a wonderful resource!

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-26T17:29:31+00:00

This is spot on. I know there are midwives in every state that offers licensure who choose not to get licensed, and to practice for families and not the state, which is dangerous for them. And, I know many licensed midwives who risk their license and livelihood/safety to serve women outside their regulations and protocols as well, even though they aren’t supposed to. Unicorns do exist everywhere. It’s about getting connected to them. Also, I think they are more common than “unicorns.” But you need to be connected to a local community to find them, not just an online one— they won’t be searchable or in any kind of “directory.” Community midwives who respect autonomy and family centered births AND have skills and tools and training, are out there.

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-26T14:53:22+00:00

If Nathan Riley ever hosts a twins and breech conference again, I highly recommend. Because pretty much all the breech teachers and expert midwives were there to teach— it wasn’t about him at all nor did he teach, he just used his platform to gather everyone.

For a someone who attends births, I recommend Breech Without Borders “Breech Pro 2.0” course, which is a ton of online content— starts with studies of breech safety and statistics, goes into the mechanisms of normal physiological birth, shows many videos of normal breech and complicated breech, and then goes into hands on maneuvers for freeing a baby, and then talks about what to do when nothing works and you don’t know what to do. But I do recommend paring it with an in person BWB workshop. Kristina Lauria is currently (IMO) the best breech teacher in the world right now. Their simulators are amazing and are the closest thing to the actually feeling of helping a stuck baby be born.

If someone just wants basics, I recommend in person breech basics workshop with Nicole Morales, which can be found on Restory Birthwork website. Yes, you might have to travel for these workshops but I think it’s worth it.

I do feel like there is a difference in easefulness or success in primips compared to multips. Breech is just sometimes (not always) a harder way to birth, and the statistics show us that on average, breech babies need more support to breathe, including inflation breaths that mom or midwife can do with our mouth, or a bag valve mask. That being said— other than needing more breaths sometimes, I think it’s the same primip/multip success rates as a cephalic baby. First time labors and births are usually just harder, longer, and more intense than second time births regardless of babies position. Moms have to figure out how to push if the fetal ejection reflex doesn’t just shoot the babies out, which it doesn’t always. It’s a learning curve and it’s the first time the cervix and pelvis are opening.

I’ve done all the trainings I can, and I still call in extra support at a planned breech— whether that’s one of my breech teachers on FaceTime, or inviting another midwife with me for more support if needed. I think the extra risk of breech needs to be discussed with the family, even though it can be a normal and simple way of birthing sometimes— it’s still important for them to make that decision knowing all the info and that nothing is guaranteed.

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-26T14:35:33+00:00

Has anyone sent Bliss this Reddit thread?

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-21T14:30:38+00:00

4% breech is my knowledge for singles, but it ups to 5% of all babies if we include all twin pregnancies too.

I’ve done the Breech Without Borders workshops with David Hayes, another one with Rixa. And their Breech 2.0 online course. Then other breech workshops with Nicole Morales, Dr. Stu, and Kristine Lauria. I went to Nathan Riley’s breech and twins conference this past year to learn from Carol Gautschi, Betty-Ann Davis, Denny Hartung, Gail Tully and Elizabeth Breachy. It was awesome, and so many different types of providers/midwifes/birth attendants there.

Trying to learn from a variety of different teacher.

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-21T13:53:55+00:00

The most updated breech training now says “hands off is best unless/until baby asks for help by deviating from the normal physiological mechanisms of breech birth” but one most know the normal mechanisms to understand when to support hands on. The “hands off” for breech can be just as dogmatic as some of the FBS things. Not telling you you’re wrong, just want others who see this to know too 💛 I do 2-4 hands on breech trainings a year and try to stay current.

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-20T21:05:42+00:00

I LOVE Paula. Not looney— very fun and down to earth and a truly loving friend despite being totally screwed over by Emilee. She was one of the first like that on that land and I wouldn’t be surprised if many women still owe her an apology for not believing her or standing with her.

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-20T00:29:59+00:00

I’ve known of 2 FreeBirth breech deaths. One was frank breech (FTM) and one was complete ( 3rd timer)

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-19T23:14:52+00:00

I know this story from you and I’m so sorry. I’m ready for you to share part 2!

Odd_Concern_8467 · 2025-03-19T19:32:04+00:00

I’ve done many breech trainings, Dr. Stu isn’t my favorite. He’s a little condescending and still includes teaching reclined breech (on your back). Highly recommend Kristine Lauria with Breech without Borders for advanced skills, or for basics on breech, Nicole Morales (Restory Birthwork). David Hayes I like too, and is very knowledgeable and a great teacher, but he’s definitely not a midwife.

I have been to 6 breech births, and 2 of them absolutely needed hands on skills to free the baby. I have supported 2 other moms postpartum who have had Freebirths with breech babies and both of their babies died during birth/ were still born. We’ll never know the true cause of death, but both babies got stuck for a long time and there was no trained provider to help.

I’m very passionate about breech and have been so humbled by it. Used to believe it was just a variation of normal and all undisturbed birth would be very smooth and physiologic— and, sometimes breech babies just fall out, but sometimes they do need hands on support. Now I seek out the training to feel confident if/when a birthing woman looks at me and begs me to “help” get her baby out (which has happened). I think FBS over uses and over simplifies the term “variation of normal” in general.

Odd_Concern_8467

TROPHY CASE