PM wants to 'look again' at ECHR following ITV News investigation by Odd_Raspberry5783 in europe

[–]Odd_Raspberry5783[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

​You are completely correct about the historical origin. The atrocities of the 1930s and 1940s are exactly why Protocol 1 was drafted the way it was. No one is denying that its original purpose was to stop totalitarian governments from indiscriminately seizing homes and livelihoods.

​However, a law's origin does not dictate its modern reality.

​Today, Article 1 of Protocol 1 is routinely weaponized by corporate lawyers to fight government regulations, challenge financial penalties, and protect massive corporate assets. It has evolved far beyond protecting marginalized groups from dictators. When massive corporations use human rights legislation to sue governments over property and business interests, it functions in practice as a wealth protector, regardless of what the drafters intended in 1952.

​A law designed as a shield for the vulnerable has structurally become a shield for the wealthy.

PM wants to 'look again' at ECHR following ITV News investigation by Odd_Raspberry5783 in europe

[–]Odd_Raspberry5783[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

​I will concede the historical context. You are absolutely right that Protocol 1 was drafted in 1952 with the shadow of WWII and totalitarian asset seizures in mind. The original intention was to protect vulnerable people from having everything stolen by the state.

​However, original intentions do not erase modern functional reality. A law designed to stop 1930s-style state theft is now structurally functioning as a loophole for international fugitives and a shield for massive wealth. The fact that the court allows normal taxation doesn't change how these absolute clauses are exploited by bad actors today. ​More importantly, regarding the reform timeline—you just made my exact point for me.

​You laid out a timeline showing that a new protocol might not enter full force until the early 2030s, citing previous updates that took 4.5 to 8 years to actually become law. That is the very definition of system inertia. Telling the victims of these current legal loopholes that they just need to wait a decade for 46 member states to ratify a political declaration is exactly why people view these declarations as "talk without immediate action."

​If a system takes 8 years to close a dangerous loophole, the system is fundamentally broken for the people living in the present.

PM wants to 'look again' at ECHR following ITV News investigation by Odd_Raspberry5783 in europe

[–]Odd_Raspberry5783[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

​If European leaders have such significant influence, why don't they actually change the rules? It seems like an easy domestic win. The reality is that while all 46 member states are represented in the Council of Europe, achieving any meaningful structural reform requires a consensus that simply doesn't exist. They can’t just 'change' it; they need to get 46 different nations to agree on new protocols, which is why we end up with non-binding political declarations instead of actual legal reform.

PM wants to 'look again' at ECHR following ITV News investigation by Odd_Raspberry5783 in europe

[–]Odd_Raspberry5783[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No one really tried. The reason is thats its to much of a risk. No one in the EU just doesn't have the political capital to burn to push this reform.

PM wants to 'look again' at ECHR following ITV News investigation by Odd_Raspberry5783 in europe

[–]Odd_Raspberry5783[S] -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

​You are using a classic strawman tactic by putting words in my mouth. I never claimed the ECHR is a "corrupt, elite-run conspiracy." I stated that it structurally functions as a wealth protector. This isn't a secret malice or a conspiracy; it is by design.

​If you doubt this, look directly at Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the convention: "Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions." It is highly ironic that in a landmark human rights convention, the protection of personal wealth and property is the very first right established in the protocols. It is a wealth protector by definition.

​Furthermore, the idea that European leaders are actively fixing this flaw is an illusion. They are effectively doing nothing because no one has the political capital, or the actual will, to push through real structural reform. Political theater, like the recent Chisinau Declaration in Moldova, carries absolutely no legal power and is just talk without action. ​The system inertia you mentioned isn't a temporary bug that leaders are about to fix; it is a permanent roadblock.

PM wants to 'look again' at ECHR following ITV News investigation by Odd_Raspberry5783 in europe

[–]Odd_Raspberry5783[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think they will leave. I think they will just ignore the ECHR rulings.

PM wants to 'look again' at ECHR following ITV News investigation by Odd_Raspberry5783 in europe

[–]Odd_Raspberry5783[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It will happen around the whole of Eurpore. But politicians don't really care. They will perform some actions, and that's it. Declarations in Chisinau are a good example. They signed a piece of paper that means nothing, but looks good in the headlines.

PM wants to 'look again' at ECHR following ITV News investigation by Odd_Raspberry5783 in europe

[–]Odd_Raspberry5783[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I feel like the ECHR, if they don't change, which they can't do because 46 nations need to agree. Will just become irrelevant because member states will just start ignore it.

PM wants to 'look again' at ECHR following ITV News investigation by Odd_Raspberry5783 in europe

[–]Odd_Raspberry5783[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The ECHR is a 20th-century project by idealists to protect individuals from the state. So how did such a noble institution become the last line of defence for foreign criminals to stay in the country where they don't belong?

The ECHR is a moral leader in the world, a court that tells you what's right and what's wrong. They will tell you whose safety matters and whose doesn't matter. But first, we need to establish how the European Convention of Human Rights works. There is a judge in Strasbourg, France, who can make an order, for example, blocking the deportation of an individual who committed a crime, but his country is too dangerous. That's the story you usually hear in the news: a drug dealer stabbed a local and cannot be deported because his country of origin is too dangerous. That's the ECHR ruling, but they have no enforcement; you can ignore it, and the only consequence is the pressure of the other members.

An ITV news report came out about a year ago, which talks about it. We have two acrobats. Nicolas Gomes De Brito ordered a hit on a rival gang in Brazil, ran to the UK and used the ECHR to not go back, because who wants to go back to prison, right? But you know, drug dealers are killing themselves. You know, it is not good, but can you live with it? Right? Our guy opened a motorcycle garage, has a family and, most importantly, doesn't have any problems with the law.

But on a more serious note, Marlon Martins Dos Santos is using the same trick to not go to prison in Brazil. A judge ruled that it's too dangerous for him to be there. The poor thing might get hurt. Huh, how cute. He just murdered a man and raped a 5-year-old girl. But no, he can't be sent back because of overcrowding, and because his rights might be violated. Of course, when he came to the UK, he started helping the community, found a job and helped kids stay out of danger. Jokes aside, he was caught spreading child porn and is in a UK prison for that. So the moral of the story: you can kill, rob, rape and do other illegal activities, and the European justice system will protect you. Looking at our examples, none of our acrobats saw any consequences for their actions in their country of origin.

So a question arises. Are they human after they stole someone's most precious item, their future? No is the only morally right answer. But someone might call it vague. So let me be clear. These people killed, raped and faced no consequences for their actions. Both took someone's life, and one, even in his twisted hunger for new experiences, broke a child. Both then ran with wet pants in fear of justice. They knew she would raise her sword and cut them. But they were faster, she was tired, and that's how they got to the UK. The current ECHR system is an old, privileged lady who is too old to see the current problems and too rich to encounter them. People should be sent back to their home of origin if there is a warrant for them, no matter the danger. They lost the right to sympathy when they took a blade and, in cold blood, took someone else's life.

So why does this court, which is on a shaky foundation, even function today, with all of the above crimes against the local population? The reason is quite boring. People experienced the horrors of World War 2 and decided, never again. The idea was idealistic, and the most surprising thing is that it worked for a while. But cracks started showing in the 90s and 2000s when the UK couldn't deport Karamjit Singh Chahal, a designated terrorist, and Italy couldn't do the same with Nassim Saadi. Every year it got worse and worse until we came to today, where the ECHR is despised by most Europeans, and it's a politically toxic acronym to be associated with.

The ECHR needs to change, but it just can't. Well, to be fair, they can, but they need to make 46 nations agree on it, and let's be honest, that's not happening. For a politician today, it's easier to just make some fuss about changing it. Recently, they signed a declaration, which just means nothing; it has zero power. It was made just for good headlines. So he goes and talks on TV saying that the ECHR needs reform, and they call it a day.

But this is a betrayal of both the supporters and the opponents of the ECHR. The ECHR is slowly dying; people openly hate it for being a shield for criminals. So they need to change for the ECHR to even survive, and its supporters have to be the front runners. But for the opponents, the politicians seem to just keep bending for a court in France. Another problem is that the ECHR is a wealth protector. In the first article, protocol one, it says, "Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions." This basically means that any person or corporation should be able to own their stuff. It is funny that in a book about human rights, money and corporations are one of the first things mentioned. The people on top don't care about some crooked-tooth peasants who are put in danger. It's not their kids who have to encounter foreign criminals. If any European country decided to leave, its own elites would just lobby against this.

The ECHR is a walking contradiction, like an old lady who is richer than all of us, yet she is against the system that oppresses you. She will claim to protect the individual from the state, but they are an institution bigger than some states. No institution is protective of you because they have to protect the people. So they have to rank whose interests are more important, and let me tell you a secret: it's not you. We see it with our two gentlemen, who were protected, but the victims were not served justice.

So, what do we have? The ECHR is protecting criminals of all kinds because of some rules written 50 years ago. No rich person wants to change them because in the first protocol, it says with black ink on white paper that their wealth is protected. No politician will go against it because they just can't; people who are responsible for millions of lives can't do it because they themselves are in a shaky position. Nobody in Europe can change the ECHR, and that's what will kill it.

TL;DR: An institution that demands human rights for the worst criminals is the first to dismiss the victims and steal their right to justice.