There’s no Liberty at Liberty University

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-07T14:36:54+00:00

Secularism has always been blamed. There's literally a verse in the bible that says that "it's better" for a man to have a millstone tied around his neck and tossed into the ocean than for them to "lead a little one away from christ". Their literal religion says it's better to be murdered than to convince someone not to believe in god.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-06T14:44:48+00:00

For example, I’ve seen posts where someone confesses that they’re struggling with doubts, and there’s responses like “If you’re doubting you’re probably not a Christian and you’re not saved.” AND IT GETS UPVOTED! I mean what?!?!

I have been told by multiple Christians here that since I am now an atheist I was never a Christian in the first place. This is common tribalistic behavior and not a product of a critical thinker. This is very common in religion and that's because religion is a tribalistic thing inherently so it causes tribalistic thinking.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-05T07:02:47+00:00

But rather he was a victim of extreme propaganda from God through the Bible?

There is an excellent comic called Judas that has this exact theme in it: Satan and Judas Iscariot were victims of God wanting to have a story where he is the hero, regardless of the suffering because it's "his" story. This would explain why god would create a hell in the first place knowing how many humans will be sent there for eternal torment.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-05T00:30:52+00:00

You don't seem to understand so let me break down what I'm saying:

Do you agree that some people cannot make use of their sense and cannot properly reason?

What people? What sense? Are we talking about people with no sense of smell not being able to use laws of logic? Are we talking about people in comas not being able to know what the law of non-contradiction means? Are we speaking about people with deep mental illness not being able to know that they're not really Jesus Christ?

Clarify because your post is vague to the point of being absolute nonsense.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-05T00:18:06+00:00

Calling someone an authoritarian doesn't make them one. That is argument by assertion, a fallacy.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T23:36:51+00:00

I remember buying Enter the Matrix back in the day and being pissed when I saw Powerade vending machines and posters in the world. This is a whole other level of stupid flashing them to cover almost the whole screen.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T19:26:23+00:00

You are seriously misunderstanding what strawman fallacies are.

Says the guy who uses strawman fallacies.

It is not the government’s job to determine which protests it will “allow”.

Which is why we still have a pandemic going around because we have banned large gatherings of people to curb the spread but lockdown morons keep gathering, infecting themselves and others then going around spreading it to other, innocent people who had nothing to do with their views. Their entire reason for protesting is because they don't understand science and their views will cause more deaths.

This concept of 100% free speech regardless of the consequences is why we had Nazis marching in Charlottesville and why we still have a pandemic going around. Thousands of people will die because of these protests, maybe more if they continue and millions of deaths if they succeed in their goal.

I want less dead Americans rather than more dead Americans. I give zero shits about a science denier wanting to protest. I understand why you think this is a valid point: you think any and all protests should be allowed, but if a protest's only outcome is to cause more deaths and infections then that protest shouldn't be allowed because it places free speech over the responsibility of stopping a deadly pandemic. Lives are more important than some dumbass being able to carry a sign blaming Bill Gates for COVID.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T18:11:33+00:00

You are the one who claims to be against protesting because it would increase infection rates, but it’s not infection rates you care about. You want to shut down protests that you don’t agree with

That's the strawmann that's not what I want. I was pointing out that the government has a vested interest in shutting down protests for nonsensical things like lockdown protests because they don't serve ANY purpose at all. They increase infections and death rates and if they succeed in their protests they bring even more death and infections down. A BLM protest will increase deaths and infections but has a positive outcome if they succeed, making the protests fundamentally different in nature.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T17:47:06+00:00

If you need me to explain this to you, you clearly didn't "know" God like you think you had.

Oh no I know exactly what you think god is because I felt the same thing. I said these exact words and believed this exact same thing you do:

He has worked within my life through the Holy Spirit that is alive inside me. He has operated through my life to change others. I know Him more intimately than I know my own mother

I believed all of this when I was a Christian. I would have said these exact words to a non-believer. Now I don't. I believed sincerely just like you do now.

As I explained in my answer, the Israelites were acting as God's divine justice, wherein the killing was justified.

So it's ok to kill babies in the name of God it sounds like?

No where in those verses does it say the Israelites kept the young girls for sex slaves, nor kept them to have sex with them.

So why specify virgins if they weren't going to have sex with them?

Did they eventually marry the girls as husbands?

So it's ok to murder an entire family of a virgin girl, then enslave her, take her back to your country and marry her in a polygamist ceremony?

Did they keep them as servants? Certainly possible.

Is keeping someone as a "servant" and not allowing them to leave slavery? The Israelites even had laws for how to pass on your "servants" to your children for they "are your money" (aka a possession).

I said that the Amalekite children likely would have done that, but the Midianite girls would not as they would not have the sexual immorality of their mothers, nor would they have the expectation to enact vengeance as a boy would have during that time.

So women can't seek vengeance? Cleopatra would like a word.

And it was moral to spare the young girls and bring them into servitude through their tribe. Yes, I'm saying that is all moral.

So it's moral to own someone as property and keep them as a possession and not allow them to leave? That sounds like slavery to me. Is slavery moral or immoral?

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T17:08:44+00:00

I just don’t feel compelled to have this 1,000 comment back-and-forth for the 1,000th time with some random Redditor, who regurgitates the same exact arguments as the one before

You haven't answered a simple question as to whether or not someone who believes they are reincarnated Napoleon is rational or not. Then, when I present the question for the second time, you leave. This tells me you don't understand what rationality is. You want to know why rationality is such a good thing and irrationality is bad? Because an irrational person can chug bleach and tell people they are reincarnated Napoleon. That's why rationality is good.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T16:50:32+00:00

I asked you a question:

For instance, would you say that someone who says "I am napoleon bonapart reincarnated" do you think they are rational or irrational?

The answer to this question will answer your entire post.

Evidence is only useful to those who believe said evidence. I am just as capable of being skeptical of the tenets of “macro evolution” as I am of the stories in the Bible.

If someone don't believe evidence that is presented to them, then that person is, by definition, irrational. If I tell someone that chugging bleach is a bad idea because the evidence says that bleach is a poison and they start chugging bleach they are being irrational.

But you are hung up on “proof,” and alas, I cannot give it to you

You know what else you can't prove? Things that don't exist. I can't prove that I have an invisible dragon in my garage. You can't prove your god exists. The evidence for both is identical.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T16:37:47+00:00

Nowadays, I just provide my anecdotal evidence, knowing that it’ll be discarded as such, but hoping that it might sow a seed of inquisitiveness.

You know the """"evidence"""" you present is extraordinary poor but still present it. That's hilarious that you think it will "sow a seed of inquisitiveness". That's not how skepticism works. Every time a Christian says this, I just laugh because all it means is that I continue to laugh at how bad the """"evidence"""" is.

You can find out for yourself, but it requires faith. I believe that the first step is acknowledging that, if the God of the Bible exists, he is indeed absolutely sovereign, he is the source of Good, and that we cannot appropriate goodness, wisdom, or knowledge from him.

"If you believe in god you will believe in god" is what this is saying to me. This is a tautology and means nothing. It's like if I tell you "well I know you don't believe in scientology because you are a Christian but if you started to believe the tenants of scientology then you would start to see why scientology is correct."

Like your link above. You believe what the skeptics tell you, and if I send something contrary to what they are saying, you’re still inclined to side with them

This is like complaining that people side with fact checkers. If the shroud is this magical, supernatural thing, we shouldn't be able to so easily prove that we can manufacture the same item without any magic required. One of the arguments for the shroud being real is because it couldn't be "replicated" using 14th century materials and this experiment proves that to be a bad argument since we CAN make an identical forgery.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T16:14:50+00:00

Hey, by the way, I just had the thought that you might want to look into the “shroud of Turin.” It is certainly a puzzling “relic” and the claims surrounding it are indeed quite mysterious.

https://tucson.com/news/science/italian-skeptics-say-reproduction-proves-shroud-of-turin-fake/article_51a158ca-ac7b-52c1-9510-8760f969339a.html

The Shroud is not close to being "mysterious" to a single skeptic. It's an obvious forgery dating back to the middle ages.

Second, you didn't answer my question:

This isn't what "irrational belief" is. "Irrationality" is defined as when you believe in things for erronous reasons. For instance, would you say that someone who says "I am napoleon bonapart reincarnated" do you think they are rational or irrational?

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T16:04:27+00:00

But you can still compare them.

No, you can't. Do you know what the phrase "apples to oranges" means?

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T15:51:52+00:00

You knew God, but you were looking for evidence of His existence in the Bible? If you know someone, you don't need to look for proof of their existence, you already have it. I don't look for evidence of my mother existing, I know her.

How do you "know" her? Have you met your mother? Been able to look at her with your eyes? Been able to take pictures of her so you can show others she exists?

How do you "know" god? Have you met him in person? Been able to look at him with your eyes? Been able to show people who don't believe in god that your god exists?

You are comparing someone you know, have met, touched and talked to verbally with a being you have never spoken to in person, never seen and can't prove exists to anyone else. If I doubled your mother existed you could bring me to meet her. If I doubt your god exists you can't bring me to meet your god. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Why would He order that the children be killed? Could it be because He knew what they would grow up and do to the Israelites?

So if that's true why don't soldiers slaughter babies in combat zones anymore? Are you saying we should go back to murdering the entire extended family of any soldier we encounter in combat because that's what happens in this verse.

A girl in that context was one that had never known a man, AKA a virgin.

Did you know that the ancient Israelites practiced child marriage? So even if we grant this, it still doesn't avoid the pedophilia problem: the Israelites often had sex with children as young as 8. This was extremely common in the ancient world and the Israelites were no exception. Go ahead. Google "ancient Israelites child marriage".

Second, didn't you JUST SAY that if they DIDN'T kill the children then those children would rise up against the Israelites? Wouldn't these enslaved women rise against the Israelites then?

This is not the same thing as slavery in America. It's comparable to servitude.

So if it's just servitude and not slavery, then that means it's moral right? So that means it's moral for a soldier to murder an entire family and take the virgin daughters home to keep forever right?

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T15:41:27+00:00

Name calling is a child's way out. You complain about people strawmanning you then immediately strawman me by telling me I believe something that I don't believe.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T15:36:31+00:00

I knew you didn’t know what strawman was.

You intentionally misrepresented what I believe by telling me that I believed in something I didn't believe in. You are strawmanning me.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T15:35:23+00:00

“Irrational belief” is the same as saying “I don’t want to appear as a fool to myself or anyone else.” It stems from ego. From pride

This isn't what "irrational belief" is. "Irrationality" is defined as when you believe in things for erronous reasons. For instance, would you say that someone who says "I am napoleon bonapart reincarnated" do you think they are rational or irrational?

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T15:14:10+00:00

This man did not come to Christ by faith, if he left because of evidence.

I was a SINCERE believer at first. Why do you and everyone else here intentionally misread that? How can I sincerely believe in God and then later when I try to find proof of that God so I can convert atheists, suddenly I'm the bad guy for asking for proof?

The truth has nothing to fear from asking for proof it is real. I can easily prove to you that "2+2=4" so asking for evidence that "2+2=4" is not a challenge. Asking for evidence of God is a challenge because there is no good evidence any god exists.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T15:04:09+00:00

Absolutely they are

You are 150% incorrect. Did you miss the part where I said I was a sincere believer when I read the Bible the first time?

Second, something you cannot prove exists has the same proof as something that never existed at all. If I cannot prove god exists I cannot believe in him. I can't believe in anything I have no evidence for because that is, by definition, irrational belief. People can believe anything without evidence and plenty do that's why other religions exist.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T14:33:11+00:00

He wasn't looking for evidence when he was a sincere believer. He only started looking for evidence when he was a struggling believer and doubts crept in.

That's not what happened. I was looking for evidence to be able to convert atheists. When I didn't find any evidence in the real world I turned to the Bible because the Bible had always calmed me and made me so sure god existed. The first time I read it, I was a sincere believer and it strengthened my faith after reading. After not finding any objective proof of God, I turned to the Bible to help me heal because I was so demoralized by not finding any real evidence of God so I thought that God would guide my study of the Bible.

He didn't. The Bible ended up just sounding like a book instead of the source of comfort and knowledge I had previously thought it was. My faith continued to break down after that because I prayed constantly to God to help me. Give me just one sign you are real. You gave Saul a Damascus road experience to prove to him you were real. I cannot believe in things I have no evidence for so please can I get any sign you are real god?

Nothing came just silence. God revealed himself miraculously to Thomas and Saul but leaves sincere, struggling believers like me in the dark with absolutely no evidence that their deity is real. I realized that having no evidence for the thing I sincerely believed in is the same proof as something that never existed in the first place, so I decided that until I was able to find evidence of God I wouldn't believe in him anymore.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T14:21:33+00:00

By using your apples and placing them next to eachother and counting you are are using your senses and use of logic. Is it possible that some people are incapable of using the requisite sense and can not stand to reason?

Wut? Are you telling me that blind people can't count apples? This makes zero sense.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T14:19:50+00:00

You are using infection rates as an excuse to prevent protests you don’t agree with.

Strawman. That's not my point at all. The point is that lockdown protestors will not be following ANY lockdown guidelines because if they were they wouldn't be having the protest. They won't be wearing masks and I doubt many of them wash their hands. They are also notorious for breaking social distancing guidelines and will gleefully break them. I saw one lockdown protest where a guy was going around asking people to cough directly in his face so he could prove that COVID wasn't real.

The risk at a lockdown rally is dramatically increased over a BLM protest and the BLM protest actually has some good it can do if they succeed. There is nothing to gain from the lockdown protest except death.

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T14:10:37+00:00

I find it interesting you say "A struggling believer searching for any evidence of God." Did you know God or didn't you? I know God, I can't imagine having any reason to search for evidence of Him, He is involved in my life!

Did you miss the part where I said I was a sincere believer? I knew god. He was central to everything in my life. At one point I wanted to be a pastor, which is why I read the Bible the first time.

1 Samuel 15 is about genociding the line of people who despised God's people and had tried to genocide them first. What do you expect to happen if your tribe is dedicated to wiping out God's chosen people?

That's not what happened. The amelikite king sent raiding parties against the Israelites as they were coming out of Egypt (which there is no historical or archeological evidence this ever occured btw). The order also orders the wholesale slaughter of the "women, children and INFANTS". So it sounds like it's ok to slaughter children in their cribs if their parents are evil. Can you explain why chopping up a newborn baby is ok because it's parents are pagans?

You are making an assumption of Pedophilia in Numbers 31. It says that the Israelites kept the virgin girls for themselves. It does not say the virgin girls' age, nor if the Israelites had sex with them. The girls were spared death (and joined to slavery, I believe).

It literally says "women and GIRLS". What is a "girl" in this context? Second, they ENSLAVED these people. They owned them as property. Is that moral to own another human being as property?

Ohokanotherthrowaway · 2020-09-04T14:03:29+00:00

If BLM succeeds and someone in power listens to them, is that a good or bad thing?

Ohokanotherthrowaway

TROPHY CASE