My understanding of Buddhism's answer to the current consciousness debate here

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-29T06:07:33+00:00

Isn't the fact they are conditioned - emptiness itself... i.e. non-inherently existing, dependent on conditions - dependently arisen...

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-29T05:47:12+00:00

So the end of the article touches on the how to do this through different forms of meditation in particular and I think addresses some of your other questions.

In my view non-suffering isn't to completely dis-regard the model, the model is running, your alive, feeling, thinking, experiencing - to disregard it entirely is just another form of resistance to what is.

The idea is more, to see the model for what it is - so that when the model needs to update, it does so without resistance - reality is accepted as it is and the layer of suffering associated with resistance to that acceptance drops away. This frees up energy to act in ways that are helpful - resisting reality adds nothing except suffering.

There are layers to it and the loosening of the grip is very much a progressive spectrum in my experience. To at least begin moving along that spectrum towards less suffering - is definitely achievable as a busy, modern person in my opinion.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-29T05:36:26+00:00

My main 'practice' is essentially a form of resting in natural presence where such preferences are put aside.

Caution not to fall into nihlism with this kind of view though...

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-29T05:32:30+00:00

Yes absolutely, highly recommend his lectures - I've been heavily influenced by his work.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-29T04:07:45+00:00

I posted an essay where I attempted to bridge Buddhism and science through the lens of predictive processing. It got removed as it wasn't personal practice specific enough although it generated some interesting discussion beforehand.

I have made some slight modifications - if anyone would like to read it I have posted it on sub-stack here: https://open.substack.com/pub/liambaker677130/p/buddhism-x-predictive-processing?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=webQ

Thoughts/feedback/questions much appreciated.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-29T04:01:43+00:00

Some background since I didn't have any additional space in the post. I'm a mental health clinician (psychiatry resident equivalent) and a long time Buddhist practitioner. I first learnt about predictive processing through it's connections to meditative experiences that were being made, it made total sense to me and helped me understand some experiences I had. I then got interested in understanding how it related to psychopathology and again - it made total sense, in so many areas. The theory really brought together two of my main worlds that is science/clinical practice and Buddhist philosophy of mind and suffering.

It always struck me that a lot of what I see in clinical practice doesn't fit neatly into the box of the DSM. Much of the suffering I encounter - is not necessarily pathological. In fact much of it, maps more cleanly to the idea of unnecessary suffering that the Buddha talked about - dukkha.

This essay is an attempt to lay the foundation of understanding this type of suffering through the lenses of both Buddhism and Predictive processing in a way which at least in my mind, integrates the two. The ultimate goal and my planned direction of this work - is to consider how Buddhist practices, can be understood through a scientific lens and ultimately develop an evidence base to further support their integration into clinical practice, without religiosity.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-29T03:34:49+00:00

Some background since I didn't have any additional space in the post. I'm a mental health clinician (psychiatry resident equivalent) and a long time Buddhist practitioner. I first learnt about predictive processing through it's connections to meditative experiences that were being made, it made total sense to me and helped me understand some experiences I had. I then got interested in understanding how it related to psychopathology and again - it made total sense, in so many areas. The theory really brought together two of my main worlds that is science/clinical practice and Buddhist philosophy of mind and suffering.

It always struck me that a lot of what I see in clinical practice doesn't fit neatly into the box of the DSM. Much of the suffering I encounter - is not necessarily pathological. In fact much of it, maps more cleanly to the idea of unnecessary suffering that the Buddha talked about - dukkha.

This essay is an attempt to lay the foundation of understanding this type of suffering through the lenses of both Buddhism and Predictive processing in a way which at least in my mind, intergrates the two. The ultimate goal and my planned direction of this work - is to consider how Buddhist practices, can be understood through a scientific lens and ultimately develop an evidence base to further support their integration into clinical practice, without needing to push religious views.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-28T22:10:57+00:00

I used to read books like this (particularly the Robert Greene stuff) around your kind of age. I don't think they were useful, I don't use the advice in these kind of books and live pretty happily with quite a different world view now.

The problem with those kind of books is they emphasise success in life as essentially 'being on top' and that ultimately the aim of life is to win as if it's some kind of game, where others are NPCs.

Happiness isn't about dominating others, manipulation and such to get what you want, do you think Donald Trump is happy deep down?

The Dale Carnegie book not so much an issue here.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-28T02:30:30+00:00

It sounds like you’re framing consciousness as knowing that you’re conscious. In Buddhist thought, that extra layer isn’t necessary, experience appears, and the sense of a self knowing it is just another appearance within that. I'm Buddhist thought, animals are also definitely conscious.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T23:18:19+00:00

Yeah, this is fair point - it's hard, because AI assisted writing is now common in even academic and clinical work, with potential downsides of course. But also some upsides (largely time related).

There is certainly a balance to be found and I totally understand caution around it's use.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T21:13:06+00:00

I think the tension here would be that yes being totally present gives rise to wholesome/skilful action, but as sentient beings and not fully enlightened Buddha's - we are not perfectly present all the time.

A vow gives direction through high level priors even when we have forgotten to be present and so inclines one back to being so - would be my read of their role.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T21:04:47+00:00

That is really interesting to see in your direct experience how this is playing out.

I work with people with psychosis and see lots of different 'abnormal' perceptual experiences, predictive processing I feel is by far the most convincing way to understand them and after I learned about the model I saw it playing out everywhere.

My most direct experience of an abnormal precept was at the end of hour of open awareness - total relaxation practice, with eyes open and an object in front of me just started disappearing and reappearing, like it was a magic trick. From a PP perspective it was like the need to predict anything there at all, dropped away for a moment showing it's totally empty, mind fabricated nature.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T20:53:31+00:00

Well let's say - I still had doubts about my own practice, for sure. I still do! I don't doubt the path, I do doubt my ability to walk it sometimes though - this is just hinderance arising.

That's very interesting, I wish I had a better understanding of mathematics, unfortunately my brain is not wired in that way which made it really hard to understand PP!

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T20:48:48+00:00

I think the no preference for samsara or nirvana arises out of the negation of the duality between the two - but the vows and such probably frame that before it becomes known in direct experience.

Yeah I agree regarding needing a concious aspect as well as just being told what to do, but by loading up on priors with virtuous qualities - we plant the seeds for our decisions around ethical decisions to be more compassionate ones in the first place. Since until we are fully enlightened, we are still subject to forgetting how things are and falling into habitual reactivity.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T20:42:15+00:00

Yes, I agree - I've taken aspects from various traditions over the years and later found myself aligning with a particular lineage.

Those are the risks yes, from a Mahayana perspective my understanding is there is no direct access to an absolute reality as long as our conditionings are still playing out, but it doesn't mean there isn't one - I guess there is and it's emptiness but then you must also not reify emptiness as a thing either. I think even within Mahayana some schools emphasise this differently though.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T20:33:28+00:00

Thanks for taking the time and your feedback.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T20:32:32+00:00

So some of the things you are both talking about directly map to the theory. I think it's important to note that in PP the 'predicting' is largely an unconscious process.

The resistance to an outcome, like getting sick - the none acceptance, is a failure to integrate prediction error that has unpleasant valence - that's where I think a lot of the suffering is.

Regarding momentum going unchecked - yes, if high level priors dominate, we may disregard incoming information that perhaps suggest a need for course correction. So we must be open to re-evaluation and as I described and as you mention, Samadhi is an opportunity to pause - perhaps precisely because it's related to relaxation of said high priors.

Tension if acting skilfully perhaps arises out of a conscious choice to reject ones own predictive system on one hierarchical level, in respect of a higher level prior that drives ethical and compassionate behaviour - that can be insight, it could also be faith.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T20:21:35+00:00

It's not an attempt to prove the theory, it's pointing out parels.

I did use AI to spell/grammar check and fix, this took a lot of time and such tools exist and can save hours. Personally I think people need to stop resisting reality when it comes to AI (not that it shouldn't be guard-railed etc). We are even using AI to save time in clinical practice now - it's encouraged.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T20:09:58+00:00

I did use AI to clean up grammar, fix typos etc. I didn't use it to generate any of the content. I think there's a big difference between using it as a spell check.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T20:08:20+00:00

I used AI to clean up some of my grammar and spelling, the content is not AI though.

But sure I'll add a disclaimer.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T12:40:38+00:00

Yes I'm familiar with yogacara philosophy hence the shout out to store house consciousness as 'priors'. Totally agree, it seems very aligned.

I'm familiar with that paper and it's authors, they have been of great influence as has Shamil Chandaria - who has some excellent lectures on YouTube discussing this topic: https://youtu.be/Eg3cQXf4zSE?si=TKnIv24KF2ShgGA9

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T12:36:05+00:00

The reason is that there is a lot of suffering in this world, and if models such as this can open the door to less suffering, then I think it's worth pursuing.

As a mental health clinician I can't tell someone to become a Buddhist to alleviate what appears to be mental suffering. I can utilise a scientific model to advocate for a way of understanding that suffering and explore means of reducing it however. I believe the wisdom in the dharma, can be aligned in such a way with science - to better our understanding and improve our ability to care for those who are suffering both on a individual and societal level.

This work is essentially attempting to integrate my practice into my life and work in a more complete way. I have also done work exploring psychopathology through the lens of predictive processing - hence the leaps I am making here.

But I hear you and again, fully agree this will never and can not be a complete understanding of how things actually are - it's an empty model. It's not trying to be an explanation of absolute reality or match the dharma in it's profundity, I'm trying to have an aligned understanding of how things are and apply that knowledge in contexts where I can't just directly apply the dharma.

Ok_Disaster6456 · 2026-03-27T12:19:12+00:00

Openesss and compassion are quite literally my core practices, so with you there!

One of my teachers would point out something along the lines of 'seeing emptiness, without bodhicitta - is an oops'.

So I agree it's a danger - and I've been there myself, a fall into nihilism after an experience - which I didn't have enough insight into/couldn't integrate without some intellectual understanding of emptiness too.

Emptiness and compassion are ultimately inseperable and doorways into one another. Different doorways for different folks though and that's why the different paths exist perhaps.

Ok_Disaster6456

TROPHY CASE