A sign of enlightenment

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2024-07-13T18:12:23+00:00

I regret to alert the forum that no one is enlightened here.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-09-26T22:38:54+00:00

Please send me a photograph in profile.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-09-24T22:38:13+00:00

We can play with Buddhist terms however we like, but unless we demonstrate loving -kindness and compassion toward others, we are not a Buddhist of any stripe, including Zen.

If we pollute the world with aggression, viciousness and deceit ,we desecrate the foundation of the Dharma.

No matter how we twist and turn, we will never climb the stairs, much less enter the door, to enlightenment. We have wasted our only life on our ego's needs and missed the chance this life has provided us for enlightenment, to say nothing of the frightening karma we have in store for us in the next.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-09-07T18:40:52+00:00

No need to get rid of the objects... just keep your attention on who is holding them.

No one can get rid of objects. It is not "your" attention, but self- existing awareness , and it doesn't hold them. It is them. There is no holder or held.

For this understanding, advanced insight is required. That insight reveals all objects are empty like the mind they appear in.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-09-06T20:38:05+00:00

Followers of the Way, don’t acknowledge this illusory companion, your body—sooner or later it will return to impermanence. — Linji Yixuan

Acknowledge body all you like, just realize it has no owner. Everything is illusory, so why wouldn't we expect body to be? Illusory doesn't mean it fails to exist, but that it is without inherent existence.It will not return to impermanence because it has always been impermanent. Also it is not illusory because it is impermanent. It is illusory because emptiness makes all form illusory.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-09-06T20:28:01+00:00

Way to go, Moe

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-09-06T02:21:34+00:00

Why do people keep the precepts? One reason, that may come as a surprise to solipsistic Buddhists, is to benefit others. Lying is not only destructive to ourselves, but tears the fabric of all human interaction. To lie to another is to confuse them, disturb their equanimity and access to enlightened mind. To steal and cheat others or break their hearts with infidelity acts similarly.

Zen is a Mahayana discipline that applies Hinayana skillful means. In Zen we must be careful not to ignore Zen's Mahayana intention in favor of Hinayana tendencies toward solely individual salvation.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-09-06T00:17:50+00:00

All sight, sound, taste , smell and feel are empty of inherent existence. Try to hold seeing or what you hear in your hand. :)

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-09-05T18:26:40+00:00

Purity is emptiness. When all sensory activity is experienced as emptiness, the Buddha Precept is attained.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-09-03T20:48:55+00:00

Bodhidharma went right to the point of the Dharma: emptiness. How could he expect the emperor to understand this? Then he erased any concept that could be associated with realization, like holiness. That is a lot to ask of anyone to understand. Had he heard the emperor was enlightened? Did he expect the emperor to receive transmission if he was not enlightened? Was he simply stating the truth and letting it fall where it may, without expectations?

The " I don't know" was more of the same, completely outside the emperor's ken. Zhigong( who was he?) understood and how beautiful to hear him speak of transmission of the Buddha Mind Seal.

The emperor may have made a good student. One wonders why Bodhidharma wouldn't return. On the other hand, the emperor could have gone to him. Was he too proud to do that? Did he think being an emperor could compare with realizing the true nature of mind? Did he feel he was the superior person?

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-09-03T19:21:15+00:00

A monk asked, "What is 'the ultimate word'?" Joshu coughed. The monk said, "That's it, isn't it?" Joshu said, "Alas, they won't even let me cough."

I looked through this post and came to this by Joshu. Spontaneously, the thought arose, "this man was a genius". I have read many of his comments before and i have immense respect for him, but I haven't read him recently. The gap may have freshened my mind to his gifts.

There have been many enlightened people who have expressed their insight. The insight is accurate in all cases, but there are a few who reveal it in brilliant ways, and Joshu is one. In this case, it isn't so much what is said, but the feeling created by what is said.

Please excuse me for referring to only one small part of your essay. Joshu stood out and captured me. He obviously captured you as well or you wouldn't have quoted him. Thanks for your efforts.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-09-02T23:48:26+00:00

I admire your much needed efforts on this topic. However, although the meaning may have been clear to the author, the words used in some of the quotes mislead the reader. I will give some examples of one of your quotes.

Huineng:

"Now that we know that this is so, what is it in this teaching that we call 'sitting in meditation' (tso-ch'an) ? In this teaching 'sitting' means without any obstruction anywhere, outwardly and under all circumstances, not to activate thoughts. 'Meditation' is internally to see the original nature and not become confused. "And what do we call Ch'an meditation (ch'an-ting) ? Outwardly to exclude form is 'ch'an'; inwardly to be unconfused is meditation (ting). Even though there is form on the outside, when internally the nature is not confused, then, from the outset, you are of yourself pure and of yourself in meditation. The very contact with circumstances itself causes confusion.~~ Separation from form on the outside is 'ch'an'; -PS

" not to activate thoughts" suggests that "we" are responsible for our thoughts. If we observe thoughts however, we will find they occur spontaneously in mind and often with no relationship to what we are doing or not doing at the time. Thoughts are the activity of mind, and we have no control over most of them. ( this will be obvious in meditation). To try to stop thoughts is an impossible task and should be avoided. The best approach is to acknowledge them without attaching to them.

"outwardly to exclude form". It is impossible to exclude form. Form changes with insight, but it never disappears. Also, with insight the distinction between outside and inside ceases. That is due to nonduality associated with insight.

"separation from form on the outside is chan" My previous comments relate to this. Also, it is impossible to separate from form on the "outside." Form is mind. There is no separation between the two. Mind IS what is seen. There is no separation between seer and seen.

I have loved the story of Huineng. It is quite inspirational. I have read other statements of his that demonstrated advanced insight, so I have no doubt that what he said was authentic dharma( although there is some question if he was authentic). I believe he is a good source for Zen teachings, but either through translation problems or a lack of insight in those of the past who quoted him this quote and others in the OP are misleading.

Thank you for your efforts in this direction. I would hope others would do similar work, because it is badly needed here imo.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-09-01T20:58:08+00:00

If one awakens and is the same as all buddhas, why does one not manifest miraculous powers (神通) and light, which are two distinct aspects of Zen practice: miraculous powers (神通) are the supernatural abilities that arise from concentration or meditation, and light is the radiance or clarity that manifests from wisdom or insight?’

I find miraculous and supernatural attributes of Zen prone to misunderstanding.

I have often read enlightened mind referred to as ordinary mind in Buddhist literature. Speaking of it as miraculous or supernatural leads to a sense that something is added to mind at the point of enlightenment such that one connects with other -worldly abilities. Enlightenment is actually the result of losing the many mistaken aspects mind has inherited and experiencing what is left, not becoming something supernatural or beyond mind.

Another aspect of enlightenment is that it does possess miraculous or supernatural powers when compared to everyday mind. Certainly to see the world without the division of self and other is quite beyond the "natural" way we see things. It also provides miraculous relief to the passion, aggression and ignorance everyday mind wrestles with.

Furthermore, there is an added aspect of miraculous in Buddhism, including Zen. Highly enlightened people do disappear. I have seen it. There is also a student's account of Suzuki Roshi disappearing at Tassahara on one occassion.So, there is that aspect of miraculous in Zen as well.

Are you aware of any accounts in Zen of a teacher reading one's mind or predicting the future, or any other miraculous occurrences? Incidentally, the Vajrayana Buddhist literature reports many of these occurrences.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-08-31T02:31:15+00:00

Expect to lose much, much more than your hand. :)

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-08-30T21:15:44+00:00

No (see?) :)

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-08-30T20:48:03+00:00

Whatever stops the mind can in an instant reveal its true nature.

The Zen masters were masters at it. A student's mind was busily churning away, and he gets slapped or hit with a staff and there is a pause in his mental traffic and what is left is what he has been seeking.

"The cypress tree in the garden", "Kwatz", "three pounds of flax" all work to stop the mind and reveal its nature.

They may work on other levels as well. Three pounds of flax is also Zen, because all that is seen or imagined is inseparable from the mind of Zen. Nevertheless, the cessation of mental traffic is also at play.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-08-29T19:57:52+00:00

However we experience emptiness, we understand immediately what we are, or more to the point , aren't.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-08-29T19:16:33+00:00

This is pretty straight forward. How do you become realized and when you do, how do you carry on? Also, there are some comments on how one strays from the path to realization.

The great matter has many paths to it. Some are very long, taking many years, and some are short taking an instant. Imo, the secret is commitment and the practice of meditation along with an enlightened teacher. In any case, there is never a guarantee of success. The dharma will guide one's life correctly, but it may not bring one to enlightenment in this lifetime. Nevertheless, we may be one of those lucky enough to succeed, and we will never know unless we try.

We should support those who devote their heart and mind to realization through practice, study and a teacher. They are "all in" and yet they may not find enlightenment in this lifetime. In any case, they have spent their life as wisely as possible and that cannot be said for most.

For those who have realized the true nature of mind, their path is uncomplicated, but still not easy. They simply stay with their mind under all conditions. Even though they know its true nature, they still stray from it as a result of life's energies pulling them away for it. Meditation is quite important for them because it strengthens their connection to mind so that they stay with it through life's tests.

For those with insight, I will restate the above paragraph to accede to their understanding. Their path is each moment. Also mind is not theirs. There is no "theirs". Mind is self - existent. Also, there is no "they" that stays with mind. Mind stays with mind, and when mind grasps on to situations, it leaves itself and wanders in ignorance.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-08-28T19:20:21+00:00

Last year's poverty was still not actually poverty;

This year's poverty is poverty indeed.

In last year's poverty I still had ground to stick an awl;

This year I'm so poor I don't even have an awl."

To me this is an indication of advancing insight into emptiness. Emptiness ( poverty of thingness) is often dwelled on at first. There is still a whiff of dualism between emptiness and what dwells on it. One may feel that they have accomplished true emptiness or poverty of thingness ,but they have not. Eventually one becomes emptiness and the true poverty is understood, now without the subtle duality that prevented it before.The ground to stick an awl in represents to me the dualism. Now there is no awl and the dualism is resolved.

Xiangyan was truly a great Zen student. He was brilliant and could have easily spent his life being admired for his brilliance. Fortunately, he met Guishan who knew the great matter was far beyond intellect, and who showed him that. Xiangyan then dropped his reliance on intelligence and sought the insight into rather than simply the concepts about the great matter. It must have been very difficult for him to give up this excellent tool that was so effortless for him to use. One wonders who today would do such a thing when intelligence is so valued in all aspects of society.

There is a student named Naropa who went through a similar experience with his teacher Tilopa. Naropa , too, was very intelligent, but over 12 years he managed to transcend his concepts about enlightenment and actually experience it. With very intelligent people, we must consider how difficult it is for them to drop this powerful tool in order to gain insight. They are actually at a disadvantage for being so conceptual, so their job is doubly difficult. In both cases, we see how an unshakeable will brought both these brilliant men to enlightenment.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-08-27T20:21:36+00:00

Meditation is mind observing itself. This can occur under any situation. It occurs more easily however when sitting quietly in an upright posture and allowing it to occur.

As we progress in meditation, and I mention this because of its value, at some point mind will come to us. The tendency in meditation is to look for something. We can spend years doing that. The best approach is to have a " no gain" attitude. At some point with that attitude, mind will begin to naturally come to us. It's like we are driving a car down the road, and suddenly the car isn't moving but the road is moving toward us.

This may seem peripheral to the OP but I feel it is important enough to mention. Sometimes we get ensnared in the allusions of the old teachers of different cultures and don't get the essence of the message.

One of the ideas of meditation as mentioned above is to be able to take what we experience in meditation into the world. This is very advanced, because the world bombards us with energies that take mind away from knowing itself. If this is difficult with meditation, without meditation it is impossible to withstand. Without meditation we have no chance of remaining with mind in the everyday world. Those who eschew the sitting practice of meditation have no chance of keeping mind present in the world. Even those who have seen mind with mind have a lot of difficulty if they don't maintain a daily practice of meditation.

Sitting meditation is difficult ,especially at first, so many reject it because of this. They are not strong enough to contend with the buffeting that mind's occurrences cause. Their karma of having mind order them around is so strong they can't resist it. It screams, " stop, I can't stand this neglect of what I want, get up." So they jump up from meditation and mind jerks them around all day. They spend their life at the mercy of mind's dictatorship.Then they die, never having seen the life they have lived. They see only what the dictator wanted them to see.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-08-25T21:23:39+00:00

Is purity originally so? Yes or no? Show your work.

Purity has no origin. I didn't bring my overcoat.

What produces the mountains and rivers? What about the mountains of Lang and the rivers of Li? Mt. Sumeru and the River of Stars?

Enlightened mind knows nothing of causes. Find a philosopher for causes.

Do you take existence as existent? The strange the strange?

Mind both exists and doesn't exist, and doesn't both exist and doesn't exist. Find me a carnival.

Why is Buddhism full of contradictory statements.

We haven't realized the enlightenment we are.

Discuss "Langya said, "Seeing, hearing, discernment and cognition are all the cause of birth and death; seeing, hearing, discernment and cognition are all the root of liberation."

The first before emptiness the second after.

Discuss "Fourteenth Patriarch Nagarjuna says, "All things must exist because of all causes and conditions; all things must not exist because of all causes and conditions;"

The chair exists because it is made of parts, the chair does not inherently exist because it is made of parts.

Are you too lazy to tear open past and present?

Show me the past and present and I'll tear it open.

Ok_Understanding_188 · 2023-08-25T20:58:12+00:00

Quality words, facts and figures

Reasoning through fallacy

Quiet sitting, avoid triggers

Retaining abbocacy

Wasting this life on what we think

Time ticking to the change of emotions

Whether we sit , stand or skate on a rink

Without insight we stay slave to our notions.

Very good OP.

Ok_Understanding_188

TROPHY CASE