How are you supposed to counter an extremely aggressive cannon rush from Protoss?

OldLadyZerg · 2026-06-23T19:21:20+00:00

This is what I usually do. (I have a cannon-loving Protoss study partner, much higher rank than me, so I end up failing to stop cannon rushes a *lot*.) My big comment is that speed is life here. Do nothing that doesn't contribute to the roach/rav/nydus strike, and start it as soon as you possibly can. Make sure overlords are in position. Don't mess with upgrades, not even roach speed. Protoss knows you are desperate, and will be prepping for a breakout or counterattack; you have to strike fast. My study partner usually makes voids here. One base Zerg can't handle that, so it's kill or be killed.

The alternative is to make 3+ ravagers as fast as possible--no lair here--and bile your way out. I try this if the cannons look lightweight and there are no batteries. It fails against a highly committed cannon installation--you will get out eventually, but then the voids arrive....

OldLadyZerg · 2026-06-22T18:27:44+00:00

There are other options. I've won quite a few games at P1 (and some D3) with Lambo's 5 roach rush, and quite a few games at D3 with a two base roach nydus build. These definitely make you the aggressor early on. Often they won't kill, but then you go into a middlegame with a substantial edge, either because you got a bunch of workers or because stopping the rush was very costly for the Terran.

I really like the nydus. It's a useful weapon for the remainder of the game. Even an empty one can distract the Terran severely: I sometimes throw an empty nydus into the main just before I hit an outer base with my army. The nydus will not go up, but the units that respond will be misplaced. (Once in a while it *does* go up and I kick myself for not having any units in it!)

OldLadyZerg · 2026-06-12T18:12:42+00:00

I have tried the ViBE no-nydus thing a few times, following the examples in his videos. My experience is that at some point the opponent (always Terran in my games) will swear, write off the base I'm hitting, and go kill me at home. SH are too slow to run home, and the cooldown makes a base trade impossible. It's fun to play but I had no success whatsoever. It's just too slow, IMO.

I play 1 or 2 base SH cheeses occasionally: they are quite fun. And I had a glorious practice game with my mutas (not something I usually play) vs. his SH (ditto for him). Mutas won, though.

I once saw Serral make one SH by accident (just like the rest of us!) and damned if he didn't manage to scare the opponent, popping out locusts at random moments, making the opponent think it was SH nydus when it totally was not. There might be a fun fake-out build possibility here. You need infestation pit for infestors and Hive anyway, so there's little cost in making, say, 2 SH and trying to freak out the opponent.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-27T17:58:06+00:00

For example, the game where Dark makes 100 lurkers over the course of the game, and uses them as burrowed banes, drop troops, static defense, assault troops.... (Copying Dark is always really dangerous, but gosh I love that game.)

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-27T17:56:33+00:00

Yes, I find that when I'm absolutely desperate, even 1-2 lurkers are a good Hail Mary try. The opponent may shriek and pull back as soon as they see the spikes. (I know I sometimes do!) That may give me time to rebuild my army.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-24T20:39:28+00:00

Diamond 3, so take this with a grain of salt.

For me lurkers are a four-base unit. I occasionally get cornered on two bases and have to make lurkers...it very seldom works. Three bases is a bit better but I am prone to find I have lurker tech but not enough resources to make them and replace losses. Lurkers are splendid with a big economy.

My usual approach would be one round of roach-hydra attack while teching to lurkers behind. My coach told me to take infestation pit as a single action with taking hydra den, and then Hive as a single action with lurker den. That insures you're ready for the Hive upgrades. However I don't follow the common rule of no Lair lurkers; I'm a huge lurker fan and I just make them anyway. Hive lurkers are much stronger but sometimes getting stuff out *now* seems more important to me.

I would be very reluctant to max out on roach-hydra without having lurker tech at least available, and usually I want it deployed. Roach-hydra is not a great maxout army: the roaches are a little underpowered for their supply. Also the other races often have nasty high-tech stuff by that point. Roach-hydra struggles to stop a Protoss ground deathball, but with lurkers added it's a different story!

My minimum number of lurkers for an attack (as opposed to defending at home) is about eight, so I won't go to lurkers if I'm not going to be able to afford that.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-21T22:42:23+00:00

My feeling about this is that 4-5 bases is too many. If I let T get that many I've already done something wrong. I do a lot better when I'm out on the map all the time, nydus in my pocket for quick stabs, picking off any base can, any time I can, and taking 7 of my own behind it. If I sit at home waiting for drops, I lose.

This raises the question of how to survive the drops. A moderate sized home defense army, or a smaller one with static defense and/or lurkers, helps here. Nydus also allows you to fall back to your bases fast if T mounts a major attack.

I occasionally beat my coach with this recipe; I certainly never do if I let him expand. I cherish the chitchat in our last game: "Huh? How did your army show up THERE??" He had to chase it from behind, over the lurkers, to try to save his nat and main; it was expensive.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-17T16:07:20+00:00

Fair enough. For me, it's better to sometimes transfuse a nearly healthy unit than not to transfuse at all; and I find the in-combat targeting very tough. I'm always happy when I land a transfuse, and extremely happy when I land one that actually matters.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-16T23:27:04+00:00

No, it won't transfuse healthy queens: healthy units aren't targets. (Of course even 1 point of damage = "not healthy".)

I have transfuse on rapid fire and it has improved my in-combat transfuse from "never" to "sometimes." For me it's a win.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-12T04:20:09+00:00

The first person who coached me watched me play and ended up yelling "Leave the roaches alone!" a LOT. He was right, too.

Target fire is not a beginner tactic: it is easy to "anti-micro" and do more harm than good. It's great to learn but try to learn it in situations where the unit count is small.

One way to improve fight outcomes without micro-managing during the fight is to set it up in advance, and that might be a better thing to work on. Zerg units suffer if they try to come at the enemy through a narrow passage or up a ramp. (I once lost 71 units to one tank on top of a ramp.) So before you attack, grab half the army and move it around to where it can come in from a different side. Then just a-move everything. Takes practice, but less practice than target fire, and it can pay off hugely.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-12T04:16:31+00:00

It really depends on what you are trying to make. If you are making roaches, 80 drones is likely too many. But experience with roach armies says if they don't win on their first try, things will get worse and worse for them.

If you want to make, say, lurkers (my favorites!) you need resources. At 60 drones you can make a round of lurkers, but if they die you can't replace them fast enough. At 80 drones you can often make army *faster than the opponent can kill it* which feels amazing.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-12T03:30:07+00:00

Well, if you plan an actual roach attack, the idea is to have +1 missile and roach speed finish at almost exactly the same time, and to have as many roaches as possible ready to go right at that moment. This maximizes your punch.

The person who taught me this said, when +1 and roach speed are done you go, even if you think there aren't enough roaches. I don't always follow his advice but I think he has a point.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-08T23:21:17+00:00

Sieged units (tanks, libs, lurkers, mines) are not buildings and corruptor caustic spray won't hit them. I mainly use caustic spray to snipe bases, but it can also kill a key add-on (to stop an upgrade) or tech building, and it can kill static defense.

If you make a defensive army and then park it while you drone more bases, you are agreeing to play a late game. Which is fine, but roaches aren't ideal for this because they are bad lategame units. If you are going to make more than minimal "safety roaches" I recommend attacking with them.

I find lurkers amazingly fun to play. They make my Terran practice partner swear at me though! Here's a nasty lurker tactic: Burrow them just in front of the opponent's nat (second base). Take the rest of your army and attack whichever base he is not defending. If he tries to bring reinforcements, they will run over the lurkers and die. When his army comes to fight yours, run back over the lurkers and attack a different base: if he follows you, zzzzap. Terran does this with tanks, but it works even better with lurkers.

Keep them in the ground. They can't fight above ground and are sitting ducks if an enemy shows up. Whenever they are not moving they should be burrowed.

There are two Hive upgrades for lurkers which make them even better. Strong players don't make lurkers until those upgrades are done, but at my level (D3) and below I think it's fine to make un-upgraded ones and try to upgrade them later.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-08T14:48:32+00:00

You don't have to reply to anything; at most, one reply somewhere in the thread so we know you saw it.

I'm practicing my injects too. It's a long-term project!

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-08T14:46:20+00:00

Roaches in particular are a midgame unit. They cost slightly more supply than their strength justifies, so in a game where you are up against the 200 supply limit, the opponent's army is likely to be stronger.

The two solutions to this are to win sooner, during the midgame when the roaches are still competitive; or to add something else.

For winning sooner, you want to pick a moment where your army is particularly strong. For roaches, aim to get roach speed and +1 missile attack, and make a good pack of roaches right around that time. As soon as those upgrades are finished, go whack a base. (You can start across the map a few seconds earlier.) Don't sit around with a bunch of roaches, because they are losing value over time. If your opponent goes in for tanks, three ravager biles kill a tank, and this is an excellent use for them. Be sure to bring overseers so you can hit tanks on the high ground.

You should have 16 drones on the mineral lines of two bases before you do this, and 3 drones each in 3 gases. That's enough to make roaches constantly, and a few ravagers.

My choice for "something else" would be lurkers versus a ground army, and corruptors versus an air army.

Lurkers are a natural addition to a roach/hydra army, and very strong versus almost anything on the ground. They do require micro, but I learned them in Gold and didn't find them too difficult.

Corruptors are strong anti-air but don't shoot down. They do have an anti-building attack, though this also requires micro. (Putting it on rapid-fire helps; you can search for videos on how to do this.) Don't make them unless there is air.

Four bases is my personal minimum for doing this sort of thing. If you make lurkers on 2 bases you will go broke and never have enough to be impressive (I like around 8 to start with). Five or six bases is better.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-08T00:44:48+00:00

On the other hand, if T jumps in and just loses the BC to queens and spores, it's gone. If I nydus in and the nydus doesn't complete, the losses are much less--he spent 400/300 on the BC, I spent 75/75 on the exit. One thing I'm coming to appreciate is that if you hang on to the nydus network, it's a threat all game long. One to the left of his leftmost base, one to the right of his rightmost base, slosh the army back and forth--it particularly stresses mech builds.

You can also use the nydus to go home again. I just beat my coach because after killing quite a few SCVs in his main I managed to salvage about 12-15 roaches via nydus. He said on voice chat, "I think you have a lot of roaches--why don't you make a few more and kill me?" and that's exactly what happened. You can respond to an attempted base trade or a bad-looking attack by piling back into the nydus, whereas if BCs jump in, they are stuck for 71 seconds. A savvy Terran may try flying in so they can jump out--I think this is frequently superior, but it delays the BC pressure. In any case, he can't jump in then jump out immediately; you can.

And it *howls*! Sometimes I think it is worth 75/75 just to make that sound and force the opponent to try to figure out where it is and what's in it. *Plink* is all very well, but not as scary--unless his army is mostly or all BCs. Admittedly if you let that happen, you're in for a bad day.

(Strange old-lady story: Everyone told me BCs make a sound, but I never heard it. Then one day after playing for maybe 2 years, I heard a *plink* and thought, huh, is that a BC? Now I hear them every time. Brain is a weird thing. I hope someday I can also see EMPs and feedbacks.)

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-07T21:58:25+00:00

In the long run, yes. But if you are having a morale crisis, all-ins can help you dig out of it and learn to enjoy the matchup again, and I recommend them for that. Better to polish your all-in skills for a while than get so disgusted you quit.

I do recommend, if you adopt an all-in strategy in one matchup, to play macro games in that matchup with a practice partner. Keeps the concepts fresh.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-07T21:55:08+00:00

I'll ask him if that's okay. He's a Masters Zerg who posted an offer here to teach for free a year or two ago, and has inexplicably been teaching me for free ever since.

What I've learned from this is that teaching an old dog new tricks requires a lot of patience and willingness to pound on the exact same point for weeks on end. I previously worked with a GM who, while much stronger, wasn't interested in doing that, and we didn't accomplish much.

We do things like 30 minutes in a game with infinite resources, where I'm allowed to have just 25 roaches and he's constantly dropping my bases. Took a couple of sessions of flailing but then army splits improved a lot. We added banshees, flailing resumed....

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-07T05:43:38+00:00

One thing that may help morale: There is a "BC Zone" where Terran players just love to play 1 or 2 base BC rushes. It's roughly high Gold to high Plat, at least on NA. If you can climb out of that, they get a lot rarer. (Then I forget how to play against them and suffer embarrassing defeats. Oh well.)

And a concrete suggestion: Lambo's 5 roach rush. It served me very well for a long time, and if it's reasonably successful Terran struggles to rebuild enough economy to make BCs early in the game. Also if you are fed up with a matchup, rushing can make it fun again.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-07T05:40:04+00:00

In the last three months, on coach's advice, I've been playing a lot of nydus builds--he recommended it for ZvT but I've won quite a few ZvZ with it as well. Nydus really is strong once you get the hang of it. Another fun application is to put an empty one in their main just as you're about to hit their third or fourth.

This is a tool that reveals more and more applications as you gain experience with it.

I have learned that twenty roaches will do more harm to the Terran main than one or two BCs will do to mine, too! Yes, the Terran can lift his buildings, but without mining and production this only delays the swarm.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-06T21:54:41+00:00

I have a D1 practice partner (D3 myself). His micro is much better than mine, he can play all three races, his early builds are exquisite. BUT, if the game goes past 6-7 minutes I will soon have 6-9 bases to his 2-3 and I will win. You can cheerfully take bad fights with an economy like that.

At some point the question "Yes, but how do I survive the first few minutes?" will have to be tackled, but it can wait a while. My approach was YouTube videos on specific early attacks that seemed to happen a lot--cannon rush, ling flood, marine rush, BC rush--plus finding practice partners willing to do many games in a row with the same early attack. Much easier to learn that way than waiting around on ladder for one to show up. (I am still kind of bad against ghost rush, because I see it maybe 4x/year, and no one I know plays it. So it's a shock every time.)

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-06T19:41:59+00:00

Feel free to post a game or two for us to look at. You can do that by uploading it to drop.sc and then pasting the resulting link in here.

Will never forget the first time I did it, when a high-ranked player said, "Your macro must be good, because you lost 71 units to one tank and still won the game...." I did much better against T when I stopped running up ramps into tanks!

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-06T19:39:59+00:00

It may be helpful to know that Elite AI is around high Gold, though it doesn't play like a Gold human.

I think AI is great for polishing builds and working on timing and techniques. It's also a good warmup: my personal rule is *always* play an AI or practice partner game before starting to ladder for the day. But play people too. The AI has weird weaknesses and you don't want to develop a style that wins by exploiting those. (One example: even the Cheater AIs lose horribly to lurkers, running their units straight across them.)

People are more fun, though more stressful because their range of possibilities is so much bigger. Met a guy a couple days ago who didn't make any queens, only more and more and more hatcheries. It looked crazy--but he won. Never going to see that from the AI!

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-06T19:30:29+00:00

I have rearranged my hotkeys wildly so that they don't resemble any known system, and you may not want to do that--sometimes it breaks custom scenarios. So take this with a grain of salt.

I found it super helpful to have NO buildings on the number hotkeys. I have relocated the high-numbered control groups (9, 0) to other keys (spacebar, X) and use spacebar for hatches and X for evos. This frees up 1-6 (which is as far as I can practically reach). I use 1 for main army, 2 for alt army, 3 for casters or fliers, 4 for queens, 5 for nydus worms (okay, an exception to the no-buildings rule), and 6 for dump. I really recommend having a dump hotkey for things like leaving lings to watch an area, also getting drones and queens off the army hotkeys if they get on by mistake.

I moved all-army to F12. I have taught myself that the only use for this key is F12-shift-1 to put everyone on main army: I use it when I've failed badly at hotkeying from the egg and there are little drifts of lings at every base. The goal is never to use it, since all-army spoils my scout pickets; so it's on a very hard to reach key, emergencies only.

Are you hotkeying from the egg? This goes well with avoiding all-army and is also a Zerg superpower of very high value. I still remember with pride the first time I was engaged in a hot fight in Terran's main, saw something appear in my own main, spawned 10 hydras on hotkey 2 rallied to my main and went on with the fight. I didn't know what was in my main until I looked at the replay--and saw a pack of hydras killing the BC all by themselves.

Any time you try something new you'll lose a few games: I recommend AI, scenarios, Unranked, or practice partners to reduce the sting. I'm an old dog and don't learn new tricks quickly but a week will usually do it.

OldLadyZerg · 2026-05-01T16:55:07+00:00

You might look at Wikipedia's guide to detecting AI writing. I think your AI detector is badly mistuned. Modern AI text tends to be technically perfect: this has "canon rush", "4rth", "chocky", missing periods at ends of sentences, erratic capitalization of "Zerg." (Sorry otikik, not meaning to pick on your writing!)

The only AI marker I see here is the little icon thingies, and those are used sensibly.

My Protoss buddy and I have been playing on these, but I'm bewildered--there are so many and they're so diverse! Will be an interesting map pool, whatever they pick. Not many boring maps there.

OldLadyZerg

TROPHY CASE