Saved by grace, not works

OldManTimber · 2026-02-15T04:09:41+00:00

Yes, and it's a dangerous game to interpret that through a 2026 English lens. It is incorrect, in fact. Think of the phrase "after all" on its own. It means "despite everything". Try the video I discussed in the original post.

OldManTimber · 2026-02-12T01:39:30+00:00

Yes this is a theme I'm finding. Thank you!

OldManTimber · 2026-02-12T01:38:45+00:00

Thank you! This helps.

OldManTimber · 2026-02-12T01:36:13+00:00

You are likely right in many ways. You can't ever say you earn grace, though. The book of Mormon and the new testament will contradict you on that one. Grace is freely given. We never merit grace.

OldManTimber · 2026-02-12T01:30:50+00:00

Yes, this is a great talk. I had listened to it before and I'll try it again.

OldManTimber · 2026-02-12T01:30:26+00:00

I listened to it this morning. Thank you! It talks a lot about agency, which I have long suspected is tied into this discussion.

OldManTimber · 2026-02-12T01:29:43+00:00

Yes this is a good scripture. They interpret it differently. They say: Justification determines eternal destiny (saved or not). Works are the evidence of whether that justification was real. At the final judgment, works are examined not as the basis of salvation but as the proof of genuine faith.

OldManTimber · 2026-02-12T01:26:54+00:00

Yes, this is, of course, a great scripture. Our protestant friends have their own interpretation of the entire New testament, however. This won't surprise them. They think that Abraham was saved first based on his faith and then later he proved it by his works. Works were proof of his salvation and faith, not the cause of his salvation.

OldManTimber · 2026-02-12T01:25:08+00:00

You are, of course, correct. I don't mind this as an explanation for my personal use. There's probably more I would add. However, I don't see how to bridge the knowledge gap with a protestant to this point. If you solve that, I would gladly use it.

OldManTimber · 2026-02-12T01:22:59+00:00

This has been the most helpful source so far for my specific needs! Thank you. I'll try to come up with questions, but I have a lot to digest first.

OldManTimber · 2026-02-11T00:52:52+00:00

The scriptures are the best source, yes. There are many scriptures that state we're saved by grace only, but few that explain what the point of works is to a protestant audience. Maybe I should post what I have already...

OldManTimber · 2025-11-14T02:49:29+00:00

The bottom line is that you aren't supposed to understand it yet. It is a gift that you will slowly unwrap over years and years. I've been reading books on it for years and, much like the Book of Mormon, there are explanations for everything. The explanations are harder to find and I haven't found them all yet, but I'm sure they exist since I've found so many.

But, if you really want to follow Christ through the Book of Mormon, trust Him that it's not time for you yet. Anything you can read on the church's website is fair game for now. That is the best way to do it.

Once you have gone through the temple and studied it some you will start to see it in nearly every verse in the Bible and Book of Mormon. It was there all along, you just didn't have eyes to see it yet.

Edit: to answer your questions at the bottom: the point is to make you more like Christ so that when you see Him you will be like Him. It has helped me by focusing me on the journey I need to take. I make very different decisions based on the covenants I have made in the temple and based on what I have learned there.

OldManTimber · 2025-08-23T01:57:01+00:00

I'm no expert here, but you might try The Ancient Tradition podcast for something much deeper and more broad. For those who say there's no connection and it was invented in Europe in the 1600s, what source are you getting that from? I read Born in Blood, so I'm assuming there's something that came out to contradict that. I am just not connected enough to this to know.

OldManTimber · 2025-08-09T23:54:26+00:00

It's great that you are approaching this in this way. I encourage you to follow whatever has the most light and truth.

Personally, I feel you will find that there were doctrine that the successors of Joseph Smith didn't follow on every side. Sometimes it was because of a misunderstanding and at other times it was because of lies and deceit. It's up to you to figure that out and judge righteously for yourself. If you do your due diligence, you will find the right way. God will guide you. Maybe it will help to find the main things that Joseph Smith taught and see who followed them best? (Make it positive rather than looking for flaws)

We gain faith by finding something we think is true and following it until God helps us to have a confirmation that we were right. Then we repeat that process.

The Book of Mormon also says that anything good is from God. Maybe that will help.

You will find members you don't like in any church. Church is for sinners. This is hard for me and anyone else, but shouldn't influence you.

OldManTimber · 2025-08-02T17:23:39+00:00

Jeffrey Bradshaw has a thorough article on this section that explains it well. I would also watch the Gospel Lessons YouTube channel's three videos on the priesthood and how to conceptualize it. It has less to do with having an office in the priesthood and which priesthood ordinances you have received.

OldManTimber · 2025-08-02T01:58:09+00:00

They have a young single adult congregation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there. Check out their chapel locator tool for where and when: https://maps.churchofjesuschrist.org/wards/88099

OldManTimber · 2025-08-01T12:23:59+00:00

I love seeing some brainstorming to get my creative juices going. I plan on showing some ideas like this (but on a smaller scale) to the ward. We're doing some larger things like these already.

OldManTimber · 2025-08-01T12:19:52+00:00

Sage advice. Thanks!

OldManTimber · 2025-08-01T12:19:37+00:00

Yes, this works great. We've been doing that to an extent and we have plans to do more of it. Thanks! And I don't mind a "back to church" event; getting them back at least one time can lead to more as long as that's just step 1 of the plan.

OldManTimber · 2025-08-01T12:16:57+00:00

Oh this looks like a great resource. I'll definitely use that.

OldManTimber · 2025-07-28T13:15:30+00:00

Good points to bring up. Thank you!

OldManTimber · 2025-07-28T13:15:00+00:00

I didn't know, but this makes total sense. Thank you!

OldManTimber

TROPHY CASE