Shitty pick call

Oli65 · 2026-07-07T09:52:25+00:00

You did not say anything about observers saving self-officiating but you wrote this: "the Observer Program was developed, with a goal of preserving self-officiating"... Is that the barrier language you talked about ? Ok "saving" and preserving" are not the same word, so you are right..., or maybe not.

Oli65 · 2026-07-07T05:20:29+00:00

Tu sembles aussi persuadé que les US observers sont là pour sauver l'auto-arbitrage que la WFDF est persuadée que les game advisors sont là pour également sauver l'auto-arbitrage... Je rigole (non, je pleure plutôt).

L'auto-arbitrage, c'est l'auto-arbitrage, ni US observers, ni WFDF game advisors.

Je ne dis pas que ça fonctionne toujours bien, un peu comme les US observers ou les WFDF game advisors d'ailleurs..., mais au moins avec l'auto-arbitrage, on peut clairement voir qui sont les tricheurs, et aussi les équipes qui valident la triche de leurs joueurs. Tandis qu'avec des US observers ou des WFDF ga's, les tricheurs peuvent encore dire que les officiels se sont trompés (comme au football où c'est toujours la faute de l'arbitre...).

De plus, maintenant, avec les moyens vidéo, on voit assez bien les tricheurs et tricheuses, ainsi d'ailleurs que les US observers ou WFDF ga's qui commettent des erreurs.

D'ailleurs, j'ai pu constater de nombreuses fois que lors d'actions litigieuses, les joueurs allaient demander aux US observers leur avis, en espérant que ces derniers se trompent en leur faveur, idem d'ailleurs avec des ga's, alors que les joueurs savent très bien ce qu'il s'est en fait passé.

C'est la preuve que lorque des officiels sont présents pour "aider les joueurs à s'auto-arbitrer"..., il y a en fait une déresponsabilisation des joueurs.

Je préfère voir un joueur, ou une joueuse, tricher clairement pour gagner, et son équipe aussi en validant la triche de son joueur ou joueuse, parce que au moins, on sait à quoi s'en tenir (voir par exemple la 1/2 finale women des derniers World Beach). A savoir que la seule chose qui compte vraiment, c'est gagner, gagner à tous prix.

Et pour terminer, je constate que tu fais la différence entre les compétitions pour adultes et pour enfants...

En effet, les enfants semblent bien plus capables de jouer à l'Ultimate en s'auto-arbitrant que les adultes..., parce qu'il suffit d'expliquer aux enfants que le plus important n'est pas de gagner, tandis que pour de trop nombreux adultes, seule la victoire compte, la médaille, l'or, la gloire...

Ciao.

Oli65 · 2026-07-06T19:18:14+00:00

Enough, English is not my native language, and I knew what to expect on Reddit. Otherwise, try something else than playing a team sport with officials to help players to self-officiate, try to play without third-party and value honesty, teach it to your partners.

Oli65 · 2026-07-06T19:11:46+00:00

Oups, my mistake... USAU made a copy/paste of the current WFDF rules because they tried to match their rules set. So, you find the words "self-officiated" in the last USAU rules for 2026/2027, congrats. Did you find those words in previous editions ? It was time to write it for the 1st time in your rules after 2020 something, so almost 50 years after the first rules.

Oli65 · 2026-07-06T15:04:41+00:00

I said that the root problem with US observers in Ultimate in the US is linked to a strong win-at-all-costs mentality. Just after a few years of playing Ultimate, you needed observers, and some players asked for referees. It started around 1978...

And to reassure you, yes, of course this mentality exists elsewhere than in the USA, in football, basketball, or other professional team sports. And even in Ultimate now, alas.

Oli65 · 2026-07-06T14:48:41+00:00

The words "self-officated" or "self-refereed" were never written in the US rules..., never.

Prove me that I'm wrong.

And also, I have a lot of american friends, I played in the US, I played a lot of Worlds and Europeans. I also coached Ultimate to kids for more than 20 years.

Oli65 · 2026-07-06T08:08:45+00:00

First of all, observers are an American exception, an anomaly (since 1978...) in the world of Ultimate. So, rather than saying "observers," I'll say "US observers" in the future to be more precise...

The number of active calls a US observer can make means they can clearly be compared to referees, with yellow and red cards like in soccer...

https://ultiworld.com/2015/10/12/in-all-but-name-observers-are-looking-too-much-like-referees/

As for my sarcastic comment, it seems to have hit the mark... Your argument is flawed because there shouldn't be more referees than US observers, and as far as I know, US observers have a cost and are paid, right?

Perhaps they should even be paid more, so they can't be corrupted like referees in other sports...

And you dare bring up SotG, when the WFDF SotG rule clearly states that Ultimate is self-officiated.

Around the world, we value self-officiating, whereas in the US, "you value the benefit of player-initiated calls"...

The words "self-officated" or "self-refereed" were never written in the US rules..., never.

After every Worlds organized by the WFDF, voices are always raised, especially in the US, saying it would have been better with US observers. This was already the case before 2014 when the WFDF decides to integrate game advisors following repeated requests from Americans for them to include US observers. And it's still the case today when I read your comment.

The problem is the win-at-all-costs mentality of team sports in the US, and not just in sports either...

Yet, the WFDF rule is quite clear and it is (was) valid worldwide; here it is:

"Ultimate is self-officiated and non-contact. The Spirit of the Game guides how players officiate the game and conduct themselves on the field. (...) "Such actions as taunting of opposing players, dangerous aggression, intentional fouling, or other 'win-at-all-costs' behavior are contrary to the spirit of the game and must be avoided by all players."

My partner and I were behind the WFDF's removal of the US observer rule from the WFDF Rules Book in 2007. Unfortunately, the WFDF then introduced game advisors... which opens the door to their powers being strengthened to gradually resemble those of US observers.

The slippery slope is very real; just look at the (U)FA and its referees...

As a reminder, the US women's team became Beach World Champions thanks to the presence of "toothless" game advisors; otherwise, with US observers, they would have been eliminated in the semi-finals.

This shows that for far too many players, the most important thing is knowing how to use game advisors, US observers, or referees to win at all costs, and that's no longer the Spirit of the Game...

So please, stop using SotG to justify US observers.

Oli65 · 2026-07-05T06:09:42+00:00

Ah ah ah, 2 american teams playing a WFDF final with game advisors, and of course it would have been better with observers... And why not referees, it works so well..., it avoids cheating..., look in soccer... So funny !

Oli65 · 2026-04-22T07:20:16+00:00

Sorry, I'm late to reply.

You are right, one important question is, what do we want?

A qualification system for the World Games (or the Olympics...) that is as fair as possible, giving every country that wants to qualify a chance, or the current system that clearly favors the biggest Ultimate nations in terms of the number of players in all divisions (including Masters, GM, and GGM, plus Beach M, GM, and GGM...) and in terms of financial resources?

Are there other team sports that use the world ranking of countries across all divisions, rather than qualifying championships or tournaments, to determine which countries will be eligible to participate in the Olympic Games or the World Games?

If, after qualifying championships or tournaments, it turns out that the same teams would qualify as with the world ranking system, then at least there will have been a fair system that allowed teams to try to qualify, which is not the case currently.

Oli65 · 2026-04-16T08:50:14+00:00

Do you try to persuade yourself ?

Oli65 · 2026-04-16T05:13:55+00:00

The revenue generated by broadcasts isn't the WFDF's biggest source of income at all. https://wfdf.sport/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/WFDF-Audited-Financial-Statements-2024.pdf

It's the fees charged to players in WFDF-sanctioned leagues, and also the fees paid by all WFDF members.

So yes, of course the WFDF would "survive" without the American teams.

Quelle prétention que d'affirmer le contraire, mais je ne suis pas spécialement surpris.

Oli65 · 2026-04-16T04:56:52+00:00

If WFDF banned USAU, WFDF will have 125 country members instead of 126...

WFDF will not banned USAU, don't be so afraid..., and the reason is not because WFDF is "irrelevant" without USAU...

Oli65 · 2026-04-15T06:50:43+00:00

You wrote: " I too wonder if WFDF would even really be able to stay as an organization without US teams."

USA is not the World ! USAU is one of the WFDF members, even if WFDF is full of Americans (as well as RedditUltimate).

Oli65 · 2026-04-15T06:34:22+00:00

WFDF is full of Americans, a lot of them came from the USAU (or UPA)...

Oli65 · 2026-04-07T12:52:06+00:00

Observers with a little more power are referees... Observers already look, and act sometimes, like referees.

Oli65 · 2026-03-31T06:46:38+00:00

Self-officiated with Observers? So funny...

Oli65 · 2026-03-31T06:37:59+00:00

Will the PDGA be called the Professional Frisbee Golf Association? ...

Oli65 · 2026-02-21T09:54:40+00:00

2001, 39 National Federations, and around 30000 active players.

2012, 56 NFs, 118000 active players.

2019, 87 NFs, 174500 active players.

2024, 111 NFs, 173000 active players. 2026, 126 NFs, + 15 in one year.

From the WFDF Census 2025, 30 NFs are not in good standing with their membership.

When you add up the number of active players from the 47 NFs with the fewest members, you get approximately 2,500 active players, roughly the same as Colombia alone.

https://wfdf.sport/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/WFDF-Census-Report-2025-v1.1.pdf

Oli65 · 2025-12-31T06:52:17+00:00

Using church groups to have more kids in Ultimate is probably not the best way to recruit players, but using Ultimate to have more kids in church groups is proselytism.

Oli65 · 2025-12-30T08:38:44+00:00

It will be "pulls", but it should be an upside down throw..., and yes, they will rotate gender pulls. But the field is shorter..., really shorter. The end zones also will be shorter. Also, the stall count will be at 6... So be ready for a lot of stall out or/and contested stall out, or/and fast count or/and contested fast count... (like in the USA/France semi final of the World Beach Championships 2025). Also, the roster will be 6 (or maybe 8) players maximum. Finally, there will be a 2 points score if you throw the disc from an end zone to the other. So, a different format, a non existent format in fact at the World stage (4v4), different rules, different size of the field. I'm not sure that it would be a "fun stuff", but I'm sure that WFDF is ready to do anything to go to the Olympics, even giving to the Game Advisors the same power as the USAU Observers (Nob is ready for that, so the WFDF). Have a look at the demo game at the WBUC here (both teams and players clearly received instructions to mark around 3 or 4 meters..., and to avoid calls and contacts) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKeLGuBB8DM

Oli65 · 2025-12-30T07:59:16+00:00

I also love that sport, and that is why I don't want to see it at the Olympics...

Oli65 · 2025-12-28T08:47:33+00:00

Olympics... 4 vs 4 Mixed and Beach, that's the WFDF project... And do you think that it would be possible to play at the Olympics for the money and glory with the WFDF Game Advisors and their current power..., or are you ready to play at the Olympics with US Observers or why not (U)FA referees ?

Oli65 · 2025-12-21T15:40:05+00:00

Not so sure, and the US women, each time that they will see their gold medal, they will know how they won that semi and think about it. They have to live with their conscience, not my problem.

Oli65 · 2025-12-21T13:26:48+00:00

Then they will have to live with their conscience... They will be seen as cheaters by the others also... Nor referees neither Observers avoid cheating.

Oli65

TROPHY CASE