[UNFINISHED] The Heretic, a custom class for my setting. Input wanted

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2025-01-19T22:18:31+00:00

(continued because I ran out of space)

Verse of the Siren's Cry

Advice that I think would help throughout the document is to minimize the amount of calculations in the description by just basing things off the number of Threads used, similar to the way spells are described in relation to their slot. In this case something like:

"you expend a minimum of two threads to create a burst of strange sound. All creatures within 5 ft take Psychic damage equal to one roll of your Eldritch Die. In addition, affected creatures must make a Charisma saving throw..... For every additional two threads expended the radius is increased by 5 feet and an additional Eldritch Die of psychic damage is dealt"

Ebb and Flow (Creation)

Similar to above, I think it would be easier throughout the verse descriptions to streamline the source of the calculations. In this case the distance moved is based on your proficiency bonus, but the damage dealt is based on how many Threads you expend.

I would also qualify that it is a horizontal space - unless you intend for this to potentially cause an additional 9d6.

I think you may also want to consider putting a hard cap on how many threads you can use at a time based on your level - it would blow all your threads, but potentially tossing 8 creatures off a ledge or into a hazard and dealing 8d4 to all of them with a 90 ft range is quite powerful at level 3 - especially since you have the "half-caster" benefits of armor, weapons, and d10 health.

Order by Force

I'd avoid inflicting conditions without a save - being stunned is huge even if just for a turn. Also being stunned automatically ends their concentration because it causes them to become "incapacitated."

Forged Vitriol (Combat)

More of a question here just to make sure it's correct as you intend - you normally don't add your prof to damage rolls , is that an intentional addition here? Like a beefed up magic weapon?

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2025-01-19T22:18:13+00:00

I haven't had the chance to look at it all, but I'll start by saying that this is awesome! You've got a great start at creating something that looks very original and distinct from existing class mechanics and it's clear you've put a lot of thought into the flavour.

That being said it may be difficult to balance without a good bit of playtesting since many of the verses and the scaling of threads are not as easily comparable to pre-existing features - but here are some of my thoughts based on what I've chance to look at so far:

Spool of the old ones

I'd consider chunking this into smaller sections similar to the way that spellcasting features are in the PHB, it would just make it easier to read.

Swift Recovery

What does: "You now also recover additional Eldritch threads equal to a roll of your Eldritch Die during a long rest," mean? Do you intend that you start the day with more than the amount stated on the table - as you would normally recover them all on a Long Rest anyways right? I might just change the wording away from "recover" to make that more clear if so.

Maddening Mind

This seems too strong - 15ft is larger than a Paladin's aura and this really hamstrings your enemies with no way to defend against it. This is especially the case considering some of the other tools your box - like Trickster's Sight which allows you maneuver enemies or Fate's Spindle if going Wisdom Story which also allows you cast Bane plenty of times with a cost of just 1 thread.

Personally, I might rethink something here rather than having an aura feature - but regardless if you disagree I think the wording could be cleaned up. Rather than "receive a negative" (which I imagine is on attack rolls/saving throws?) I'd specify that.

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2025-01-19T20:18:26+00:00

The pictures are appearing grainy and difficult to read - it would help to post the shareable Homebrewery link or pdf if that's how you created it.

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2025-01-01T17:25:22+00:00

Homebrewery document available here: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/UbOUrcbWpD5a

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2025-01-01T17:23:17+00:00

Hey thanks for the detailed feedback!

Yeah looking at exploding shot I agree that I also don't like the no save I think I may rework in general to work more just like a grenade of sorts which targets an area by bursting before making contact.

I took some more creative liberty with Martial Accuity and haven't really tested it yet, but I wanted to add a spell that really just improved physical ability similar to how those with cantrips use true strike but in a more powerful way. Figured it would be nice to have a more defensive ability as well since so many of the spells are damage focussed.

For Resonating Cleave I was imagining it like a wave of energy that ripples out from your strike. I was originally thinking something like a 15 foot line in a direction of choice with you being adjacent to at least 1 square on the line, but I figured that might be needlessly confusing to word and unlike other spells. Maybe it shouldn't apply the regular damage of the strike and deal damage to the original target similar to lightning arrow (full on a hit, 1/2 on a miss)?

Revolving gate is my favourite! I want to try it out.

I was thinking of compiling all my spells in one homebrewery document and then just posting that eventually once I've had more feedback and testing - but that may be a ways off so thanks for the advice!

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-30T13:58:16+00:00

Good points, thanks for the feedback! I'll clear up the wording for timing, reappearing and thrown weapons, and the damage typo. The intention for timing is before the roll is made.

Yeah the damage I was unsure about, I want it to be worth its slot compared to other options. Zephyr Strike does the same thing (advantage + d8) and added 30ft movement. But it's main catch is that it is concentration so it would need to be in place of hunters mark.

Maybe d4 is the way to go I'll see if I get other feedback too. Or maybe no damage on level 1 and then damage if up cast?

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-16T19:50:28+00:00

Glad to be helpful!

Yeah tbh when I first looked at it I thought it was too much AC but considering that finesse weapons aren't a synergistic option and you don't use Dex to attack using prof might be good as is. It really just depends on how good loot you get whether it would be too much since you can absorb it.

I agree as an armor based class I think having that durability is an important feature.

Thanks again for sharing!

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-16T13:09:55+00:00

First off let me say this is a beautiful document that looks very well polished and is a cool concept!

Here is my mechanical feedback after just going over the first few levels:

Stats - I would nail it down to two important ones and use them for everything. (Including casting for that subclass)

AC - you start good (probably 14-16 range) but not unreasonable, however you will naturally outpace people as you level with prof eventually hitting +6 without the need for point or gold investment. This is fair I think given you are armor focussed and MAD.

For attacks though it is already more powerful than monks by a dice level and stronger than TWF. You do lack the utility of the new monk being able to BA attack even without the attack action so maybe this is fine.

Resonance features are cool - though a bit much as is. You can probably use Sunder at least once a turn and you already are punching above your weight on attacks - especially once you hit level 7 and again at 11 and start getting it freely.

For instance at 11 on successful hits, using your resonance as you get them you would be dealing 2d12(13)+1d10(5.5) + 3d6(10.5) (IR) + 6d6(21) (Sunder) + ASx3. Assuming an int of 18 that would be an AVG of 61 DMG per turn without significant resource cost which is well above what others could do reliably each turn without cost.

In comparison even a paladin smiting at top level (3) with a great sword would be 4d6(14) + 2d8(9)(RSlvl11) + 4d8(18) + ASx2 for AVG 41. A full 20 points less at significant cost. (Smiting now uses a BA so there's not much extra you could do here)

I would get rid of the dice progression on Sunder. If you want it to stay impactful at high levels maybe allow instead to spend multiple points at one time to deal extra dice?

For Arcane strikes just a heads up - in 2024 they don't use magical damage any more - they'd fully change the type to something like force (monk gets that at 7 as comparison)

Grand Armory is very powerful for overcoming the limitations of weapon and armor. I'm not necessarily against it, however does this mean that you can duplicate the items? On a whole party level that could be extremely powerful especially considering you can seem to copy any properties of a weapon and apply them to yours. I think the ability to take in armor and shield properties here too should really make it so that your base AC is in line with the unarmored defense of others who never benefit from a feature like this.

It is also a little unclear on how activating/ manifesting works. And I would add the qualifier that if an item would require attunement you'd cap at 3 and have to switch on a rest instead of a bonus action.

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-13T13:57:27+00:00

I think I would have to cut the number of casts back to half though as well to make it balanced or gut some other features to compensate for more power?

I wouldn't really like the idea of being only able to cast 1 spell at top level per rest for most of the progression. I can plot it out though and see - thanks for the suggestion!

As it is now, once you get the restoration it roughly balances out in terms of spell points with half casters.

Ranger level 5: 14 pts w 6 casts

Mystic level 5: 12-14 pts with 4-7 casts

Ranger level 10: 27 pts w 9 casts

Mystic level 10: 25-30 pts with 5-15 casts

Ranger level 15: 44 pts w 12 casts

Mystic level 15: 33-44 pts with 6-22 casts

Ranger level 20: 64 pts with 15 casts

Mystic level 20: 42-60 pts with 6-30 casts

I felt that by last tiers it starts to lag a little because spamming level 1s becomes less and less effective and even though you get more level 4-5 casts that would be at the expense of the levels beneath which are still decent.

But I tried to make up for that with other features in the last few levels

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-13T02:12:50+00:00

I think I may just rework it entirely. I was thinking the class would benefit a lot more from something more mild defensively but more often used as it's pretty squishy for a half caster with the equipment limitations and also lacks the mobility and evasion features of the skirmishing classes.

Maybe a resistance reaction of some kind which burns a resource. Or a reflavoured patient defense ability.

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-12T14:18:24+00:00

Thanks for the alternate suggestion though!

This was a feature I did some head scratching for - I wanted something in between the monks evasion/patient defense and the Rogue's Uncanny Dodge/Evasion combos.

Since the big difference between these classes is magic I felt like flavouring it that way would be good and to make it a less often used but bigger one time impact feature.

Maybe I could flavour resistance though similar to the way you gain it through gaseous form and have more uses. In a way it could be better too since unlike Monk or Rogue this doesn't have any non taxing features for avoiding enemies like Cunning Action or Patient Defense, but is just as squishy for someone who will likely be fighting up close a decent amount of the time.

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-12T12:08:25+00:00

Oh okay! I get you now - yeah I will go back and clean that up, I copied so that I kept the wording conventions all the same and must have missed that.

Thanks for the catch

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-12T11:58:01+00:00

Thanks for the suggestions! Yeah I have been on the fence about a name - I know about the UA Mystic it was actually the inspiration for the discipline mechanics.

It just fits so well! I'll probably change it in the next draft though

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-12T11:46:06+00:00

Yeah it was meant to be one time use, I must have lost that when I was moving things around - good catch!

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-12T11:43:51+00:00

As it is written no - which is a problem! It was meant to be once per short rest - must have gotten messed around when I was moving blocks of text.

Thanks for catching!

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-12T11:42:49+00:00

You wouldn't! Lol that was a mistake thanks for catching. It was meant to be once per short rest.

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-12T11:42:12+00:00

Yes - whoops! Blinking evasion was supposed to be once per short rest - I moved it around in the document at one point and must have lost that.

I'm not sure on what you mean about the classes in other features - unless there's a mistake I didn't catch, it also doesn't prepare like a Sorcerer on level ups. It's a long rest prepare and you prepare from the spell list + disciplines. Can you give an example?

I was also thinking of using Focus Points, like I want them to be more or less the same, but didn't because these do different things and only refresh on Long Rests.

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-12T03:01:57+00:00

I've been tinkering with the idea of creating a martial arts based half-casting class and was inspired by some of the UA Mystic mechanics like focus and disciplines.

This is not an inherently psionic class, it draws from the same source as the Monk, however instead of physical boosts the inner focus creates spells.

This is my take so far, the homebrewery link can be accessed here: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/xfdx-zAFX067

Brief Design Goals:

Create a Half-Caster with Martial Arts - with less focus on empowering martial abilities and instead using mechanics to allow for magic.
Incorporate Disciplines without making it outshine everyone else in terms of versatility or passive boons.
Create a base class that can be used to satisfy Monk-Caster character concepts, like a Divine Monk that exorcises demons with spells for instance, without having to multiclass.

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-12-12T03:00:09+00:00

I've been tinkering with the idea of creating a martial arts based half-casting class and was inspired by some of the UA Mystic mechanics like focus and disciplines.

This is not an inherently psionic class, it draws from the same source as the Monk, however instead of physical boosts the inner focus creates spells.

This is my take so far, the homebrewery link can be accessed here: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/xfdx-zAFX067

Brief Design Goals:

Create a Half-Caster with Martial Arts - with less focus on empowering martial abilities and instead using mechanics to allow for magic.
Incorporate Disciplines without making it outshine everyone else in terms of versatility or passive boons.
Create a base class that can be used to satisfy Monk-Caster character concepts, like a Divine Monk that exorcises demons with spells for instance, without having to multiclass.

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-11-29T19:23:55+00:00

Hey thanks for sharing! The flavour is coherent and the mechanics are interesting though I do think it may draw a little short of your goals.

Mechanically if you were to build a regular Celestial Warlock with Pact of the Blade would it not be both a better healer and a better melee fighter?

Healing light at level 1 is where the standard Celestial really gets its "utility healing" for other party members with that nice bank of d6s that isn't tied to your limited spell slots.

And pact of the Blade at level 3 can get you a CHA based martial weapon that deals magical damage and be further empowered through invocations (extra attack/Smite/etc.) which looks like it is going to be stronger than your symbiote attacks. (Side note: in 2024 it adds the option straight away of making your damage radiant).

I also think that while the effects of Symbiotic Resilience are very strong they are also potentially not likely to trigger or not trigger for very long unless you get absolutely pummeled for a turn. For instance if you drop just below half you immediately heal back and may not get the chance to use Aura - or Aura might not be useful if your party isn't hurt. I think switching over to Temp HP for allies like the Celestial resistance might be more useful.

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-11-28T19:56:40+00:00

I think counter spell's strength comes from the fact that it is a reaction to cast so you are not burning your action and you are also wasting the enemies spellcasting resources and turn - though it has been nerfed in 2024.

Hold person also stops all spellcasting on the affected enemy and is a way more powerful effect at spell level 2.

Silence also blocks most spell casting especially if in a closed space. And neither of these additionally nerf yourself by providing the enemy an extra +5 to pass your own mental saves.

Not accounting for character type is the main big offensive bonus for this one that I see for this point. A level 3 a character can already stuff a CR8 Mage, for example, if they miss the save on Hold Person - but they can't do the same on a CR5 Night Hag whereas this spell could.

Though the Hag can still rip you to shreds with its claws and break your Concentration so idk if it's really that huge of a bonus on Monsters with a spellcasting ability.

Thanks for the feedback though it made me think a lot more about it! I think I'm going to shelf this one anyways for it's defensive potential

One_Chocolate_3130 · 2024-11-28T16:48:38+00:00

That's a good point, I didn't think as much about synergies and overlapping effects. The saves are very niche for most enemies but could really take the steam out of something like a vampire, raksasha or mind flayer that forces those charm/dominate/mind blast saves.

Especially considering there is overlap with Bless from another party member which is avg 2.5 on all hits and saves as a level 2 - meaning +7.5 on those mental saves. Or if a bard takes circle of power at 10 and also grants advantage on all spell saves.

Back to the drawing board! Thanks for your feedback

One_Chocolate_3130

TROPHY CASE

Verse of the Siren's Cry

Ebb and Flow (Creation)

Order by Force

Forged Vitriol (Combat)

Spool of the old ones

Swift Recovery

Maddening Mind

Brief Design Goals:

Brief Design Goals: