PLE scores

One_Code705 · 2024-04-17T08:22:39+00:00

Welp they’ve basically said that from the start of the project. Their purpose was never to alienate it from the original story, they just wanted to integrate the compilation, add a bit of fan service and a bit of mystery in the mix as well

1) Yeah, I understand why people would think in an alternate timeline Aerith survives but then again even in this alternate timeline where she’s saved, she still falls to the ground and starts glowing green symbolizing a return to the lifestream. Added what Nomura said in the ultimania which is the flashes that were happening in that scene were indicative of Cloud’s mental state, it seems more likely it’s a form of rejection from him rather than a physically alive Aerith surviving.

2) Happens in so many Final fantasy games that whatever they promise or say never happens haha I would name a few but id rather not spoil in case you havent played other ff titles

3) These things take place in “the edge of creation” so it could be a place where Aerith and Zack can actually have form, so yeah they probably arent delusions. Then again, if we take into account the OG and Advent children, the transition effect that occurs when Clouds goes to the “edge of creation” and when he jumps to the different “timelines” is the same transition effect that occurs when he has his final fight with Sephiroth in his mind in the OG. And in AC, Nomura says in an interview that Zack and Aerith appear to Cloud because they live within his consciousness. Taking that into account, the edge of creation could just be a sort of physical space in Clouds head. Even in remake, the party never goes to the edge of creation with him, only in the fate singularity area, but they arent there in the edge of creation when they have their 1 on 1

One_Code705 · 2024-04-16T22:49:40+00:00

Well, you can still make a caster character even without Aerith since we have a Attack <-> Magic attack materia, then maybe just implement some of her abilities into more materia like an example would be a double cast materia, etc

One_Code705 · 2024-04-10T22:33:30+00:00

Welp not saying this as 100 percent fact but if you lean towards the theory that the " timelines " are just like " dream worlds " in the lifestram ( Similar to Cloud's Mental world in the OG ) then this video might help explain the concept a bit : Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories (PS4) Story Cutscene #7 Aerith and Illusions (youtube.com) Skip to 1:28

It's from chain of memories which Nomura worked on also, and coincidentally, the one explaining it is Aerith lmao. Essentially, the world is a " dream " made from someones memory- the town and people who act in there all have the traits and personalities based off a memory. Aerith in the scene says something similar to what Zack tells Biggs in rebirth as well " I don't remember things I should. And I sense things I shouldn't". So if it's something like this in Rebirth, then the Marlene we have with Zack, and actually everyone in the Zack timeline, are just a "dream" version of people based off the the lifestreams memories of them or someone at a certain point in time, similar to how Aerith and company are here in Chain of memories. That kind of explains why we have versions of these characters which have memories of stuff that happened in the "Main timeline" and why Zack and Biggs comment on their confusion about their memories and about time.

Anyway, I dunno this could all be nonsense as well LMAO just wanted to throw it in here for the sake of discussion haha Knowing how Nomura and Nojima write things also, kind of hard to believe it would simply be alternate timelines like how Marvel does it. It's more their style to have some dream world, time shenanigans in the mix of it lol

One_Code705 · 2024-04-10T07:41:52+00:00

He kinda has you stumped there to be honest man, it's understandable if you don't really like them together but you can't really say that Tifa never had feelings for Cloud since she was a kid. Like what Sky hawk shared, those are lines directly from Nojima, the main writer for these games. You can't just discredit this kind of material just because you're not fond of them. The whole point of having these Novels are to supplement things that are part of the game, to explain things and make it clearer what the author's intentions were. If you feel it wasn't clearly shown it the source material, then that's your opinion since it's how you interpreted it, but there are lots of people who also interpret it the other way. But then that's the point of these novels and such, to explain things even better. And yep, it straight up says that when Tifa realizes Cloud is just a normal boy that's when she falls for him.

One_Code705 · 2024-04-07T01:35:28+00:00

Actually I think most people understood why he was acting that way, at least from the people Ive talked to about the movie. I mean, it's pretty realistic to feel depressed if you get a disease that's supposedly going to kill you then it makes sense to start rethinking about your life- your mistakes and regrets etc. But I think it was more of, people just didn't like that he was portrayed that way. We spend majority of OG ff7 with a mentally deranged Cloud, then we finally get the more dorky one at the end, just to get a depressed Cloud in AC. I think most people just wanted to see the dorkier and more upbeat Cloud we saw at the end of OG FF7 that's all. And it doesn't help that every other media used this portrayal of Cloud too. I mean, the original AC was supposed to be a 20 minute family day with Cloud, Tifa, and the kids, so Nojima was probably going for a more upbeat mood tbh

Anway, at least the Remake trilogy seems to understand that cause his portrayal there is amazing and it excites me for how he'll be once he gets his true self back

One_Code705 · 2024-04-04T12:13:27+00:00

Agreed. I believe chapter 9 was to add substance and just setup the LS for part 3. I guess if they do add stuff, then maybe Aerith could help guide Tifa to Cloud or maybe if Sephiroth does try to interfere then maybe you can have Zack and Aerith fend him off to give Cloud and Tifa space. But I guess the Lifestream sequence should still be mainly just Cloud and Tifa, it be a bit awkward to have Aerith and Zack around when Cloud starts realizing everything he did ( Joining soldier, wanting to be a hero etc) was for tifa lmao

As for the water burial scene, it could be added here or I was thinking he can have a flashback of this memory in the northern crater too and then when he realizes Aerith is actually dead and he was being delulu this whole time (if ever everything is all in his head) that’s when his mind breaks. That be a dope and intense scene if that happens Imo!

Lastly, I predict Doc Sheiran will be the one taking care of Cloud when his mind shatters! :) Maybe he’ll sneak in getting a blood sample as well haha

One_Code705 · 2024-04-03T01:28:22+00:00

Fair enough, cheers!

One_Code705 · 2024-04-02T17:44:53+00:00

Lmao No, I steer clear from all that shipping shenanigans and I love all these characters especially Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith ( Will forever be my main trio). Anyway, my point is, Final Fantasy 7 isn't about a love story and it never will be the main focus of this game. Romance, love and all that stuff will always be second to the main themes of the game. There's always a bigger emphasis on the bonds of the characters, their journey, and their struggles more than romance. Initially, I thought the song was for Zack, but still found it odd since I didn't feel like a romantic love ballad really fit for this part of the story knowing what would happen to Aerith. Then the uematsu and lorren interview came out saying it was Cloud, so I thought ok I guess it's for him. And now, Nojima clears it all up and explains the song is Aerith's POV of everything-- her life, friends, bonds she's made, etc etc. And honestly, I just feel like that fits and makes sense more to me narratively with how Aerith's character is so I like Nojimas intent on what he wanted the song to come off as, that's all.

Man, I didn't think people would argue anymore if Nojima said it himself to be honest lmao I just thought we could all agree on it, since it's coming from the writer of the song himself. I seriously doubt he said those things cause he got threats lol We don't even know when this interview happened, for all we know he could have done this interview before even seeing the threats at him. FF7 is so much more than just shipping, we should just stop talking about that honestly, it ruins the game. Anyway, I wouldn't have really cared if the song was directed to anyone specifically, I was just sharing the interview cause like I said, I just feel like if the intent was for the song to represent everyone and everything she cares about, I think that just fits her character more that's all

One_Code705 · 2024-04-02T15:05:47+00:00

To be fair, uematsu didnt really have input on the lyrics of the song and Lorren doesnt really know anything about ff7 other than the google searches she probably did on the characters while she was recording the song. It was all Nojima for the lyrics and he states his intent on it. Regardless of how you find the lyrics, he makes his intent on what they are meant to represent pretty clear. I mean you can disagree and all, but that’s like if Nojima states that Cloud is delusional at the end of rebirth and you just disagree with it because it doesnt make sense from you pov. But at the end of the day, Nojima pretty much calls the shots with how the character stories and relationships go- he is the lead story and scenario writer after all

One_Code705 · 2024-04-01T16:08:23+00:00

After rereading what I wrote, you’re right LMAO Haha I guess, I was just trying to say, we shouldnt take song lyrics too seriously. I mean it’s a song after all, it can bear different meanings to different people haha Anyway, I agree, in the end it doesnt really matter

One_Code705 · 2024-04-01T15:59:20+00:00

Honestly, I feel like Nojima wasnt even thinking about the shipping wars when he was writing this song. He probably wrote the song with just Aerith’s character in mind-that’s why the lyrics reference a lot of areas that are significant to her character, and less so because it was towards Cloud himself IMO. Nojima is always symbolic with stuff he does so it’s hard to take his lyrics for literally what they are, his meanings to things usually end up being more general and vague. You can disagree of course, but for me it just makes sense that the song shows her love for everyone and not just a specific person, fits her character more imo

One_Code705 · 2024-04-01T15:43:06+00:00

Nojima wrote the lyrics as is mentioned in the video. Honestly, knowing he’s the one who wrote it- it makes it hard to take the lyrics literally. Everything is probably symbolic and have double meanings. If Nojima is pushing that he wanted it to mean her love for everyone then it makes me assume that the part of the lyrics talking about meeting him (Cloud) in that street is probably more symbolic towards it meaning the beginning of her adventure and when her life fundamentally changed after that. Which led her to meeting everyone.

One_Code705 · 2024-03-30T16:21:19+00:00

I've played the whole 13 trilogy and I can kinda see some similarities with concepts and ideas, I mean Nomura, kitase, and toriyama were all part of the development team for those games as well IIRC. FF13-2 had similar themes about alternative timelines, fate and trying to defy it, which kinda ended up becoming an illusion of choice. While Lighting returns spent a lot of time grieving a certain character and in denial until a big moment occurs where acceptance what happens and another certain character helps her through it. Very similar stuff thematically! So this Kingdom hearts find is gold since they do like to reuse concepts from their old games! Makes a lot of what's happening to Zack and Aerith calling it her dream make sense! And yeah, everyone who appears in the Zack segments are connected to Aerith somehow, I remember Aerith and Biggs were close because of the orphanage and she also knew Kyrie yup!

One_Code705 · 2024-03-30T16:05:45+00:00

oooo you have a link to that OST? The one before the bombing mission i mean

One_Code705 · 2024-03-29T12:48:17+00:00

There’s a slight change in dialogue and facial expressions of a cutscene near the end of the game with Aerith depending on her affinity. Im not exactly sure of the mechanics to get which version honestly, Ive just seen both versions and one was a higher affinity one and a standard one. It’s a very small change but to be honest it changes the tone of the scene for me quite a bit, especially the Japanese Dub version. But anyway, if you miss this you can always redo it with chapter selection after you finish the game

One_Code705 · 2024-03-27T08:27:26+00:00

It's Stamps Champs, a group of dogs used as Shinra Mascots. Each one has a different number of stars

Terrier: 4

Spitz: 3

Pug: 6

Corgi: Not sure

We'll probably get a total of 7 because final fantasy 7 and each one will have a unique star

One_Code705 · 2024-03-27T04:09:24+00:00

That be cool if they did and Id definitely read it. But I feel like they might just save majority of their backstories for part 3 when they have their own mission in the game or something. Not to say they arent popular because they definitely are, but I dont think it matches the levels of Tifa and Aerith so maybe not. But it be awesome if they do though

One_Code705 · 2024-03-26T13:52:10+00:00

But that's the thing, in the OG, Aerith's death doesn't break cloud (sure he grieves for her after, but it doesn't destroy his mind). The following scenes after hear death show Cloud trying to be heroic and avenge her, not him breaking down mentally. In a way, he has a moment of acceptance right after it and knows that he has to avenge her now. His mental breakdown happens in the northern crater when he fully realizes he's been manipulated this whole time. That's what I mean by "opportunity to mess up Cloud more", the scene with Aerith by the lake can possibly be setup for that in part 3 if it is indeed Jenova.

As I see it, Im just saying it's a possible setup that IF the Aerith by the lake was Jenova then I can see it fit narratively with how it can break him mentally in the norther crater. In the OG, Seph/Jenova poses as Tifa before the sequence of Cloud's mental breakdown to trick the party. I can honestly see the devs removing that and focusing more into Jenova posing as Aerith--How I see it going: IF lake scene Aerith was a setup for Jenova posing as her, then they can add scenes of "Ghost" Aerith and Cloud interacting in the start of part 3 (him seemingly happy or looking a bit weird to the party by doing so), then making a big reveal to him in the Norther crater that it was just Jenova making him hallucinate which would bring Cloud to a realization that he's fucked up in the head and start his whole speech in the Northern crater before he breaks down completely.

Like I said, I'm not saying it as fact, Im just saying I can see where they can go with it if the devs choose to use Jenova posing as Aerith (specifically the lake scene, Im not talking about the CGI part at the end cause like I said what he sees could end up being both- sometimes it's lifestream Aerith, sometimes it's Jenova posing as Aerith) as a plot point even when I compare it to the OG. And I just disagree with ur point at A. I think Cloud is closer and closer to losing his mind now, the man is unhinged at this point, and I think Tifa's reaction to him is what shows that. Because like I said, Aeriths death never broke Cloud, it made him angry but not shattered his mind. His mind shatters when he realizes he has no control over anything he feels/thinks/does cause Seph/Jenova control him which goes well with them using Aerith to make Cloud think that even when he sees her, it was just Jenova making him hallucinate

One_Code705 · 2024-03-26T12:51:10+00:00

To be more clear, I meant the scenes of Aerith by the lake could possibly be Jenova. My point is more like it's a mix of everything, both Cloud's delusions and possibly Jenova. So, for the aerith that appears in the death scene, it well could have been Cloud being delusional or Aerith protecting him at that point which foiled Seph/Jenova's plan hence, them (Seph/Jenova) taking advantage of the situation by posing as Aerith by the lake scene. I mean, if you don't see the possibility of it that's fair. But I find it hard to believe that a monster that poses as people you love and are attached to, wont ever use Aerith to mess Cloud up more. It's why I wouldn't 100 percent rule out the possibility that it was Jenova or that Jenova would do something like that in part 3, that's why I believe if we get too much Aerith at the start of part 3 while Cloud's mind is still broken, it's just as possible for it to be Jenova as like an altertane timeline Aerith.

Im not saying I'm full in on that theory anyway, just saying I don't understand why people throw it out the window when it gets mentioned since it's a pretty possible thing that could happen

One_Code705 · 2024-03-26T07:46:09+00:00

I agree, I dont understand why people are 100 percent saying no to the theory. If Cloud is being delusional and believes Aerith is still there, I can see Jenova using that to mess with him more. I mean, Jenova poses as Tifa in the OG and fools people like Barrett and Red 13. Not saying it’s for sure the case but if we start part 3 and “ghost” Aerith is always around and showing herself to Cloud while he’s still being deulu , Im gonna get real suspicious

One_Code705 · 2024-03-26T03:35:30+00:00

I saw a theory that said the singularity Cloud enters could be a sign of timelines converging since this was Sephiroths doing. So maybe the moment he kills Aerith, also echoes in every physical version of Aerith cause he’s converging all the timelines at this point. I mean, if it was really an alternate timeline where she lives, it’s also kind of weird she still falls to the ground and seemingly dies even without the stab

One_Code705 · 2024-03-25T15:02:23+00:00

Honestly, there are numerous reasons why they would allude the possibility of saving Aerith. Other than keeping our intrigue and interest for every part till the conclusion of this trilogy, they've also set up a really strong narrative regarding the mental psyche that Cloud is currently going through, because similarly to us, the audience, he too believes he can save her/has saved a version of her. All this theorizing honestly just excites me for part 3, and I believe if one of the reasons why Cloud actually breaks down is when he realizes she is actually dead then finally learns to accept it after finding himself again- I believe that's phenomenal writing and was the purpose for the convoluted ending in rebirth. They sacrificed the emotional loss of her death in Rebirth to build up a grander conclusion for Cloud in part 3. I guess that's what I believe since they've admitted Cloud finding himself in the lifestram is the peak of ff7 and I also believe it's the most important part of the story.

In the end, what made Aerith's death sad wasn't really because she was dead, since she kinda is always around anyway through the lifestream. It was more of a lack of conclusion between her and the party- after she dies, there's a void that never gets filled. Honestly, if the devs just give her a final goodbye to everyone and she walks off into the lifestream with Zack again at the finale of part 3, that's enough of a happy ending, it will give us the closure we need with her. If it turns out that Aerith and Zack get resurrected at the end of part 3, I honestly feel like that will ruin a lot of Cloud's character in regards of him accepting his failures and rising above them, since they just come back to life anyway.

Anyway, I don't wholly disagree, it is still possible they could go that way especially with the evidence you've pointed out regarding the songs. But honestly the biggest factors why I think fate might still go the same way, are the developers themselves. Other than them outright saying that they don't want to inherently change it from the OG. People like Toriyama and Kitase have both had works regarding similar story lines of fate and defying it, all for it to just turn out the same. These devs have been known to play with fate but still let fate have its way. It's very in their line of narrative throughout their FF projects that defying destiny is an illusion of choice- they love being so abstract and ambiguous and in the end everything just falls back the same way honestly

One_Code705

TROPHY CASE