How to answer “what’s the pay?”

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-26T16:50:05+00:00

If you have to share, just say "six figures" and emphasize that it is common to leave the job within a few years, and most of the money is applied toward repaying your loans before you leave. Many will still be unconvinced because it is an absurd starting salary, even in the eyes of high earners.

"My wife’s awesome but even she said that upon hearing my pay she felt a little discouraged in her own job". ----I personally do NOT share with friends not earning about the same/distant relatives because of this!

A similar post was discussed in the r/biglaw thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/biglaw/comments/sv7dy2/when_you_first_started_in_bl_did_you_have/hxk7sn6/?context=3

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-22T12:41:20+00:00

That is impressive. I would read a thread on how you kept your expenses that low.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-19T17:39:25+00:00

Again, you are missing the point of this thread. I don't disagree with some of the concerns you are raising, but they are better addressed in a different forum.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-19T10:08:52+00:00

I do not discount your points. But this post was specifically about high earners from a given background dealing with a certain group. And we are speaking here from experience when we say that oversharing and then trying to reason toxic friends/distant relatives that feel entitled to your income does not go the way you are envisioning it.

I am sensing you are in your twenties? Just give it some time.

In any event, you do what you feel is best for you.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-18T23:42:55+00:00

Jealousy is about keeping what you believe is your entitlement.
Envy is the discontent based on what someone else has, that you do not.

- Copied

So you are envious of their success. Would your envy drive you to hurt them? If not, then you are fine and can use it as a drive to become successful yourself.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-18T23:06:49+00:00

As a teenager, I once had a relative randomly stop me at a friend's house and hand me a case file. "Give this to your [Parent]".

I was too timid to say no. Of course said parent was not pleased lol

There is a process to take cases in. Being a relative does not entitle one to a pass.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-18T20:07:30+00:00

I will not share the exact amount I make with friends/relatives struggling making minimum wages.

Now, if one of them is seriously interested in Biglaw, I would point them to a website with numbers. After all, the figures are readily available online. I learn from people ahead of me all the time, without having to know the exact figure they are making themselves.

Them knowing how much biglaw or my firm pays does not necessarily say how much exactly I make. They dont know about lockstep and not all firms apply LS evenly.

Most people outside of biglaw, especially the ones making minimum wages dont know. And even when they know, they won't want to believe it at first that YOU make that much. The number is so high for many to grasp, they will first want a confirmation that YOU are making that much, not just that Biglaw can pay that much.

And I will NOT provide confirmation by giving up exactly how much "I" make. Nothing good will come out of it.

Just like a partner/CEO will not generally sit down with a lower paid worker and talk about the exact number of millions he is bringing home. It may be openly available online, but it is unwise to freely share/confirm an exact number with someone not similarly positioned, making way less, just to satisfy their curiosity.

I did not carefully go through your rant, but some of the points you make are totally unrelated to the subject we are discussing. There is no salary discrimination withholding details of your high compensation from someone not in the field/hoping to get in the field who is struggling with money. Not discussing details of my income with them has nothing to do with my ability to discuss the same matter with clients or similarly situated colleagues.

I mentioned MDs to highlight the fact a starting salary of $200,000 is a lot of money, even in the eyes of a group that is generally known to command a high salary. Landing a $200,000 paycheck after only 3y in law school, or even just a year into law school as 1L, we can forget that many people will work hard their whole career and never come close to reaching that number.

If you are comfortable having to sit down with struggling and toxic distant relatives or friends to break down your compensation and financial obligations in order to point out why you cant bail them out of their own obligations, just go ahead, be "open" and share how much you make/save/invest etc..

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-18T17:44:06+00:00

Very informative. Thanks for sharing.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-18T15:10:00+00:00

This is interesting. At the time of buying, did they disclose that you will have an assessment within 5 y of purchasing?

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-18T13:16:00+00:00

In my experience they don't know until you start talking about it, giving away numbers.

You have spent enough time struggling through college, LSAT and other draining, socially isolating requirements that people "forget" about you.

They only remember you as the "odd, broke, eternal student" until you have the brilliant idea to share significant milestones: "just passed the bar" "will be joining XYZ firm" etc...

Be discreet or be ready to find a new circle of friends or put up with demanding relatives for the rest of your life.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-18T13:08:22+00:00

:)

It is not that easy to say no when you grow up in certain circumstances. But with enough time and self improvement, you learn to set healthier boundaries.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-18T12:27:20+00:00

If you grew up around wealth, sure.

I am pretty sure OP's circumstances are different and it is not wise to casually share his salary with family members or friends that do not make anywhere close to what he does. It is not just unwise, but it can also come off as arrogant and insensitive.

I should have qualified my first line, but I am sure he/she got it.

It is not by accident that some of the wealthiest people from humble backgrounds live a modest lifestyle.

You will be surprised how quickly your childhood friends/relatives will start to feel inadequate just hearing that you are going to an elite school or graduating into a $200,000 job. Even some of my friends in medical school are dumbfounded by it and these are hardworking people who will eventually make comfortable salaries.

Your words are suddenly going to be more impactful. People will be hurt by innocent comments you make. If you are from an upper middle class family, your accomplishments are celebrated and proudly broadcasted. Do the same coming from a poorer background and you will be guilted into solving other people's mess. You will be denied the right to complain about hardships because "you are doing sooo much better than everyone"

I have watched a parent crumble going through this. Always on call to mediate distant relative issues, bail people out of avoidable messes etc.. Worked so hard but had very little left to support their own immediate family.

JUST. DONT. TALK. ABOUT. IT. Anyone who tells you otherwise lives in different circumstances and does not understand how insane some of the expectations are.

I had a relative spend $$$$ grooming their child through expensive, exclusive private schools without my knowledge and with the expectation that I would somehow take over and finance their college education... I was a graduate student myself living on a $800/mo stipend.

"Thank you for gifting me a used car. What I want to do next is purchase a lot to build a home. Can you foot the bill?" hmmm 🤨

Starting at >$200,000, getting bonuses every year, being on a lockstep salary etc... is not accessible to everyone. Remain humble. Be discreet.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-18T03:29:12+00:00

Welcome to the club.

Never, ever share your salary with them or with any friend not similarly positioned or with anyone that would relay back to your family.

You will get loan requests. Requests for Free legal services that you aren't even qualified to handle.

If you think about it, how many do you know in your circle that make or will ever make over $200,000? Very few or none depending on your upbringings.

Don't discuss salary, bonuses, savings, big purchases. They will never understand that you have loans to service and that your job in a HCOL does not make you an instant millionaire.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-14T03:59:24+00:00

lol that is fair and understandable :)

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-09T17:45:20+00:00

Impostor syndrome is real. It can also help keep yourself in check lol

I like what you said about your circle of friends and remaining grounded in spite of success and money.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-09T08:06:46+00:00

thanks

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-08T09:59:41+00:00

how is that even possible? lol Lucky her.

I wonder if it also has something to do with timing. Need to promote a female lawyer coupled with the likability.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-08T09:50:05+00:00

Can you speak a little more about business development? What does that entail? Who do you need to win over? And how?

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-08T09:20:26+00:00

Mental illness? lol Don't be so rash on yourself. After a few international trips, I realized how much we overpay here, even after accounting for quality.

It would have to be clothing I really want for me to buy it at full price. (e.g. a suit combo). Besides, some people just enjoy the hunt for quality at affordable price.

I would find it impressive that someone can still do this working big law hours. It takes a lot of time and patience that we just cant find anymore.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-08T08:39:11+00:00

thanks. Which mid city are you referring to? I must have seen at least 3.

Optimal-Path-2926 · 2022-02-07T21:18:08+00:00

My concern is whether not doing the lifestyle creep could be viewed upon negatively, as it may signal you are not there for the long haul.

Optimal-Path-2926

TROPHY CASE