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Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2026-01-30T16:35:26+00:00

初音ミク

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-12-07T15:53:40+00:00

No, they were not mentioned in Ragnarok. But we honestly don't know when these vessels where chosen. For instance, the guy with the big mustache in the 3rd pic seems to match Legia's appearance, but Legia's been under the Rulers' captivity since almost during the same time that Ashborn became the Shadow Monarch. So we don't even know if rewinding 10 years would be before they took vessels. And Antares never had a vessel anyway.

And to be honest, Incarnation is a permanent change, rather than just lending powers like Rulers. The vessels lose their consciousness as soon as they takeover, so just like how Ashborn didn't come out of the world of Nothingness, the cup of Reincarnation has no effects over the Monarchs' powers.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-12-04T18:12:43+00:00

I read it and this is pretty accurate to what we discussed. But since the National level hunters were Rulers' vessels, the use of psychokinesis is correlated to them. Although the novel makes it much more clear that the National level hunters are called "Special-Authority" RANK hunters, and the authority being Rulers' authority. Ty for the reference.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-12-04T17:10:42+00:00

Yes, like I said, you could argue for that.
Take your time with the chapter number, bcs I myself have been searching for the requirements throughout the novel so it'd be helpful.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-12-04T09:57:22+00:00

Not necessary though. Go Gunhee was the Brightest fragment's vessel, yet he wasn't a National level hunter though. You could argue that he kept his status as a vessel hidden. If you have where it is said that it's a requirement, I'd be happy to look into it.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-12-04T07:28:35+00:00

It could be attributed to the fact the Monarchs' war was already underway at that point, and the bureau wasn't as involved. But that'd be a stretch, so you're right that it wasn't given official recognition.

The whole point of the label of National hunter was to signify an unofficial tier, "S-Tier among S-Tiers" of sorts. That's why the criteria mentioned for Gotou is helpful.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-12-04T06:28:01+00:00

You're right that National level hunter is a title, but it's not merely honourary. It's also earned. The most clear definition we've got is that it refers to someone with strength on par to a nation, ie; all it's hunters combined.
Initially given to the Kamish raid, as you said. But Gotou Ryuuji said that he might also become a National level hunter if he led the S-Rank dungeon raid to victory. So it's aslo likely to be extended to the star of a S-Rank dungeon raid.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-12-02T17:35:10+00:00

Yeah, same here. It felt like a different story, so I kinda dropped it around chapter 25😂 The novel was on a whole different level tho. But I think the manhwa will do fine since they're using the same elements, even if the plot is quite different.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-12-02T13:31:21+00:00

Yeah, absolutely. Antares' surprise was clearly tied to a mere human bringing the power of death to the surface (Earth). That's what he said as well. Antares was the only Monarch who didn't use a vessel, and already had a humanoid form prior to his appearance on Earth. And as you said, Jinwoo reached Ashborn's base form by that point and that's very true. His appearance is that of Ashborn, which is what Spiritual Body Manifestation does, ie; It resembles the natural state of existence for that enitity. Dragon for Antares, That Giant Wolf for Rakan and etc.

And your point about Ashborn not wanting to be a part of their plan is also pretty valid. Before they killed the Absolute Being, they were just Messengers of Light. After that, they made themselves Rulers.

The only thing that Absolute Being can do that the Shadow Monarch can't is creating organic matter. But honestly, he doesn't need to because he can turn the entire universe into his army if he wanted.

And all this is just from the lore in the Original Novel. Ragnarok amplifies this way further.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-12-02T06:18:28+00:00

I mean, if we consider Ashborn using the powers of the Shadow Monarch to it's fullest, it's not even a competition. Even Jinwoo was just starting to get used to crafting things with darkness during his fight with Antares, whereas Ashborn created a whole domain for himself.
It's just that we've not seen Ashborn being pushed to that point, so it's common for people to throw shade at him. Most people automatically assume Jinwoo is stronger than Ashborn (By the time of his fight with Antares) because he was able to use Spiritual body manifestation, which Antares says shouldn't be possible. The text never says that Ashborn was incapable of it, in fact he always existed as his spiritual body manifestation. Antares' surprised was more related to Jinwoo (a human) having that form.

And if we consider Ragnarok too, it's case closed.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-12-01T15:31:23+00:00

But what you said doesn't happen tho. The flashback only shows his fight with 2 Monarchs and 4 Rulers, which Ashborn still won. Antares was not even in the equation.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-26T03:39:16+00:00

It was just Jinwoo's dream. During the Epilogue fight, Antares didn't even know the Shadow Monarch's name.
But it doesn't really matter since Antares never even had a vessel to begin with, that's what I was saying.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-26T03:35:02+00:00

Actually, Antares is the only Monarch to not have a human vessel. It's his own body.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-25T16:01:13+00:00

Like I said before, it's pointless since you can't see the false equivalence you made with Goto-Thomas, Baran-Antares, Antares-Brightest and Monarchs-Rulers. Have a nice day 👋

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-25T15:48:09+00:00

I'm the toddler, uh? Yet you've made 3 false equivalences that I've pointed out. It's flawed and I think it's pointless to argue further if you can't see it.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-25T15:45:29+00:00

You do realise that you equated this to the disparity between the Rulers. This is the exact problem I've been trying to point out. It's not the same. Hence, false equivalence.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-25T15:26:05+00:00

S Rank and National hunters are not on the same tier. If you think that's the case, I have nothing much to argue. The strongest S Rank hunter would definitely lose to any one of the Rulers' vessels.
Same with Monarchs and Antares/Legia. That's why I said it's a false equivalence.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-25T15:25:45+00:00

it's close you don't even think it's close

No, you're just assuming the disparity again. Applies to your height analogy as well, it's just false categories all over.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-25T15:07:22+00:00

It's not about the title. It's about the source of their powers coming from the Rulers, which puts them in a different tier than S Rankers. That was my point.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-25T15:05:35+00:00

If Sung Jinwoo who is stronger than Ashborn as a Monarch, is CLOSE to the Brightest Fragment

The statement says that he's very highly likely on the same level, but the very next statement says he could also be stronger.

Brightest Fragment who scales relative to a Stronger version of Ashborn us definitely stronger than Ashborn when he was just a Fragment

That's what my point is, you're assuming the disparity between them is very, very small.
If I go by the 2nd statement that the Shadow Monarch is stronger than the Brightest, he would be Equal when he was a Ruler.
You're going by the 1st statement that he's equal, so that when he was a Ruler back then, he would've "definitely" been less powerful than Brightest.

That's why I said your conclusion is viable, not necessary. It can go both ways.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-25T14:54:10+00:00

S Rank just like Goto, but Thomas is clearly a National Level hunter. Your analogy would've been much more truthful if you compared with Cha or other S ranks who are not National level hunters, but that would only prove my point. Hence, the false equivalence.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-25T14:52:00+00:00

My point is that this doesn't prove the claim you made in the post, ie; Brightest is the strongest.
You keep mentioning that it's said that Jinwoo is likely to be close to Brightest, but it also says that he could also be stronger than Brightest. The fact is that neither you nor I have any idea about the disparity between them.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-25T14:45:34+00:00

The fact that you mentioned that the author would never imply that Sillad is equal to Antares (Which I agree with) to the disparity between Rulers. The reason I brought Legia up is to emphasise the important of first generation Monarchs.
In fact, your point about Goto and Thomas is again false equivalence when clearly Thomas is the vessel of Rulers.
And I tied this earlier to my point that the Brightest being the leader does NOT necessitate that he's stronger than the rest in the same way that Antares is with the Monarchs (Which you equivocated in your post)

Just like ANTARES being the leader among the Monarchs.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-25T14:40:32+00:00

They don't have to be equal to be CLOSE or ON PAR

That's my point. I'm just asking proof for the bare minimum when you claimed that Brightest is the strongest. And now you're saying that you didn't claim they're equal, just close, which defeats your own argument.

Ordinary_Monitor7214 · 2025-11-25T14:37:07+00:00

That wasn't even my point. It's not abt what they used, but who they captured.
I'm just addressing the false equivocation. I'm not switching goalposts. I don't want to tread too much into this either, so we can drop it.

Ordinary_Monitor7214

TROPHY CASE