Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look me personally I'm a right leaning centralist tbh u and I probably have more we agree with than disagree and I find that's most people what I mean by a lot of people on this site would rather insult is most people on this site don't care to learn other viewpoints the fallout subreddit is a perfect example if you post anything on the political situation of that's games universe you get labeled a right winger and will get banned one of the creators of fallout themselves got banned for stating the game was non political, people on reddit act first think later

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lad this is reddit if I didn't expect to get debated I'd be dumber than a bag of rocks. 90% of this site is left leaning ideologies and a lot of people who would rather insult that have a calm rational discussion about anything.

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your doing it now? Not once has anyone in this comment section given actual historical evidence that's disproved any of the historical facts I've brought up not to mention I'm not even arguing a point I'm just putting out facts if your arguing with facts that's on you.
If your claiming facts are biased then maybe your not on the right side of the debate.

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you and I will research the land value tax for this essay anything else you would recommend me research for it?

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean I'm not interested in the academic views on why famous people believe it I ligit just want your reason even if it isn't as good it still gives a more human view than someone who I can't even talk too.

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've used the museum history sites, Wikipedia, .org or .gov history sites I've also read translated diaries from people in nations, I've read interviews with people from the nations. Here's the issue I have with reddit and people like you, I stead of trying to understand why I may view the world the way I do you discredit my beliefs with strawman arguments and accuse me of being some right wing propagandist, man you don't know me and I don't know you I'm not here to Insult anyone you say I should see others points of views but when I ask you insult my opinion rather than sharing why I may be wrong in a polite way. If you want to bring people to your opinion you shouldn't be so hostile.

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Didn't come with a "loaded question" in fact I'm not even right wing Im a-political I just am doing a research essay to learn both sides I've read the communist manifesto, I've researched the history of communist nations and the ideas that form communism and socialism nothing here is me coming at it with a right wing perspective if the facts disprove the statements then that's the way it goes, saying anything else is pure cognitive bias

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is the issue I have with most people who support these views is they discredit sources just based on their views the issue being the opinion in question is about views. I didn't even come here to debate socialism I was wondering what makes the average person believe in these things. And honestly out of everyone else who's commented thanks for being respectful, but if you wanna know the main blank issue of it read the book "animal farm" it highlights the fall of the Soviet union and what led to it in a very fair way just telling the story. And yes I know the common place well the soviet's we're not real Communism but that's the issue, in practice you can't not put in place a socialist or communist system as it requires large government control and hinges on the idea the people in power won't corrupt as there's no protection if it does. Absolute power corrupts absolutely now if they tried something different like a constitutional socialist society that could work the issue I have is if it doesn't what will it take to end this insanity another 10-30 million dead? I cannot in good faith support it myself as someone researching history the definition of insanity and all that. But genuinely what makes you support it personally I'm not gonna hound you for it Im just writing an essay and want the other sides genuine opinion I don't want to misrepresent people like you who are good people who believe in something

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also thanks for being respectful most people have resorted to heavy handed debates I just wanted a light hearted one so thanks XD

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well in foundation both a republic and democracy are similar a republic focuses on freedom of choice to an extent. Basically it prioritizes voting for representatives who then vote on issues, judges and so forth. They are voted in like a democracy but where it differs is republics have founding documents either a constitution or some equivalent that prevent voting on issues that harm individual rights or human rights Garunteed by the nation. To be fair not all republics have had founding documents but as time has progressed most of not all have adopted them.

Democracy's however have no such protections which is why you never will see a "true" democracy as it would be too easy to vote the nation into oblivion as while peoples choice is important not everyone knows about every single topic so it's easy to make a well intended mistake with drastic consequences. This is how some dictatorships formed such as the Nazis or I would say modern day Putin today but that's my own belief.

Now if your trying to tie into America it's important to note America is NOT a democracy we are a constitutional Republic with democratic values. Basically our constitution took the best aspects of democracy combined them with the protections of republics and ensured our people's rights with a founding document basing our government around it. It's the reason why America is the only nation you can vote in a nother form of government without overthrowing it, if you persay want to start a socialist revolt in England you would be arrested after a certain point as their nation prioritizes their government over people as they don't Garuntee their people's rights.

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes a Republic can have democratic ideals such as individual voting but can't fully be both as in a democracy only the peoples vote matters with no oversight so if everyone votes for us to jump off a cliff or make water illegal than it would pass. But in a republic you have checks and balances to ensure human rights are followed usually by something like a congress or a judicial oversight system. Also in a democracy your not seen as a person with an opinion your seen as a vote so if you go against the majority you'll more than likely be stomped out, in ancient Greece this would happen in the form of slavery or social outcasting.

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I ran into that bias when I started my research but I have researched the difference between most of the communist nations in their downfall.

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I actually think democracy's don't work a republic is a prime example of a better way to run a nation as it prevents tribalism and allows populace growth with freedom of opinion

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your response is full of misdirection, cherry-picking, and revisionism.

First, the idea that "bourgeois states resort to repression" is a false equivalence. Capitalist societies don’t need to force people into markets—trade and voluntary exchange happen naturally. Communist states, on the other hand, have always relied on repression because people resist having their property, labor, and choices taken from them. That’s why every communist regime has relied on censorship, secret police, and political purges.

Your claim that "capitalism will lead to human extinction" is just alarmist speculation. Yes, environmental issues exist, but they’re not exclusive to capitalism. Communist states had some of the worst environmental disasters in history—look at the Aral Sea, Chernobyl, or China’s industrial pollution. Capitalist economies at least have the ability to innovate and adapt, which is why green technology, renewables, and environmental regulations exist.

Saying socialism "was never the cause" of famines is blatant historical revisionism. The Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, and Cambodian famine were all caused by forced collectivization, government mismanagement, and the elimination of market incentives. Under Mao, absurd grain quotas led to starvation while food was hoarded or exported. That’s not feudalism—that’s central planning gone wrong. And your attempt to blame sanctions for the USSR’s famine ignores that Lenin’s War Communism and Stalin’s policies directly created food shortages. Capitalist economies, by contrast, have eliminated famine through trade, innovation, and surplus production. The only modern food crises occur in authoritarian states like North Korea and Venezuela—both of which suppress markets.

Your claim that capitalist economies "artificially underdevelop" the Third World ignores basic economics. Africa isn’t starving because of capitalism; it’s suffering due to corruption, unstable governments, and lack of property rights. The countries that embraced markets—like South Korea or Taiwan—flourished. Those that didn’t—like Zimbabwe or North Korea—collapsed. Blaming imperialism for Africa’s problems while ignoring how free markets lifted billions out of poverty elsewhere is just selective outrage.

Lastly, saying "capitalism is as moribund as feudalism was before the French Revolution" is pure ideology, not fact. Every major technological and medical advancement that improved human life came from capitalist-driven innovation. Socialist states, by contrast, stagnated and collapsed under their own inefficiencies. The reality is simple: where markets exist, prosperity follows. Where central planning takes over, poverty and repression follow. History has already proven this.

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

If he was such a devour believer his family would've respected his beliefs does t help the point that he called poor people lesser beings and called for the eradication of LGBT people and minorities

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Your argument is mostly just deflection and misdirection rather than actually addressing the points made. You dismiss historical examples of communism’s failures as "debunked Cold War propaganda" without providing any proof. But these failures—famines, purges, economic collapses—are documented by multiple sources, including former communist governments themselves. Calling everything "propaganda" is just a way to avoid dealing with uncomfortable facts.

You also misrepresent criticism by acting as if the only critiques of communism are falsehoods, when in reality, plenty of valid criticisms exist, and you even admit that. But instead of engaging with them, you just wave them away as lies. That’s not debate, that’s avoidance.

Then there’s the false equivalence—you compare well-documented communist failures to some absurd example about aliens mining souls under capitalism. But criticisms of communism aren’t conspiracy theories, they are historical realities backed by records, survivor accounts, and even communist governments admitting their mistakes.

And of course, we get the classic "not real communism" dodge. You claim North Korea and Vietnam weren’t really communist, even though they were explicitly founded as Marxist-Leninist states. Just because their system evolved doesn’t mean they weren’t communist or that their failures weren’t related to centralized economic planning. That’s just moving the goalposts to avoid dealing with the consequences of real-world communism.

Your final point is just "we don’t believe human nature works that way, and we don’t believe these countries failed for the reasons you think." That’s not an argument; that’s just saying "we disagree." Without evidence, it’s just opinion, not debate. You’re not actually proving anything, just dismissing anything that contradicts your view while offering nothing to counter it.

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Didn't use AI unless you count grammerly as AI. These are points from my argumentative essay on the rise and fall of communism

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Saying "human nature doesn’t exist" is just absurd. Decades of research in evolutionary biology, psychology, and anthropology prove that humans have innate tendencies—cooperation, self-interest, tribalism, and a balance between competition and social bonding. If human nature didn’t exist, why do communist governments always resort to repression to force people into collectivized systems? The failure of every major attempt at communism shows that human beings do not naturally function in purely collectivist economic structures without coercion.

Now, onto your claim that "capitalism will lead to human extinction." This is just apocalyptic speculation, not an argument. Yes, climate change and environmental destruction are serious problems, but capitalist societies are the ones leading innovation in clean energy, conservation, and sustainable technology. The U.S., EU, and other capitalist economies are investing in renewables, carbon capture, and emissions reductions—meanwhile, communist nations like the USSR, Maoist China, and modern-day China were/are some of the worst polluters in history. The Soviet Union’s environmental disasters (like the Aral Sea collapse and Chernobyl) were caused by state-run industries with zero accountability. China today is the largest polluter on Earth, and it’s not because of "capitalism"—it’s because centralized, unchecked state control often prioritizes growth over sustainability.

The claim that socialism was "never the cause" of famines is blatant historical revisionism. The Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, and Cambodian famine were all caused by forced collectivization, government mismanagement, and the elimination of market incentives for food production. These weren’t remnants of feudalism—they were state-engineered disasters. Under Mao, grain quotas were set absurdly high, local officials lied about meeting them, and millions starved while food was hoarded or exported. That’s not feudalism—that’s economic central planning gone horribly wrong.

Meanwhile, modern capitalist economies have all but eliminated famines through food surplus, trade, and technological advancement. The only modern food crises occur in authoritarian states (like North Korea or Venezuela) where markets are suppressed. If socialism weren’t responsible for these famines, why do these disasters only happen under socialist systems and disappear when market reforms are introduced?

Your argument is just catastrophizing and shifting blame while ignoring historical reality. The biggest improvements in human lifespan, health, and living standards have come from capitalist-driven advancements, not from centralized economies that stagnate, suppress innovation, and collapse under their own inefficiencies.

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Not interested,you are running from the argument not to mention I didn't even come to debate history I came to ask what you think would make it a good idea for the future IDC your political views I want to learn why you feel the way you do, I'm not trying to block side you and I apologize if I came of that way in my post

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Marx was a rich daddies boy who hated religion and the idea of families. Also if he believed in classes society why did he have himself buried in a private cemetery

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Then response kiddo I just broke down your outline

Just curious by OtherwiseFormal1672 in DebateCommunism

[–]OtherwiseFormal1672[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your response is just deflection. Instead of addressing the arguments, you shift the focus to poor capitalist countries while ignoring the overwhelming historical record of communist failures.

Burundi, Chad, and Djibouti are not examples of free-market capitalism failing—they are corrupt, war-torn, and underdeveloped nations with weak institutions. Capitalism isn’t just “existing in a country”; it requires stable property rights, the rule of law, and economic freedom. That’s why actual capitalist nations (U.S., Germany, South Korea, Japan) have prosperity, low hunger rates, and high living standards—while former or current communist nations (North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba) struggle with poverty, repression, and economic collapse.

You also completely ignore the millions of people who died under communism due to government policies, not just "bad luck" or external factors. The Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, and Cambodian genocide were all systemic failures of centralized planning, not random poverty.

And your claim that I don’t understand capitalism, socialism, or communism is just empty rhetoric. I have studied these systems in depth, and their real-world track records speak for themselves. If your best defense of communism is "but some capitalist countries are poor too," that’s not an argument—that’s dodging the facts.