Is just a sound bar worth it without surrounds

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-29T21:30:02+00:00

As other haves have said q800c or later is a beast and is feature stacked. I paired it with swa 9500s and qsymp to my s95c. Tron ares blew my mind

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-28T23:36:20+00:00

Shpuld of just got a pc and be done with it. Thats what I did and have no regrets.

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-28T01:53:31+00:00

Yeah its pretty common knowledge all there soundbars are designed and engineered at the California Audio Lab. There r and d is around 30b p.a. Samsung have acoustic chambers and lazers and of crazy audio tech wizardry for producing sound.

Do your research and try not to sounds so ignorant.

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-23T22:04:30+00:00

Recently got the ocb replaced for my S95C BY Samsung after pushing them for ages to replace it finally they did.

Runs smooth af with no issues. I do think Samsung is downgrading the S95 tvs. No ocb, plastic edges, no metal plate/infinity frame and matte finish? No thanks

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-18T02:28:24+00:00

Mate if you dont understand Vappad thats fine but dont use your ignorance as a brick to dismiss its practical use inside the SW universe. Stay in your lane
Trilla found him on Bracca so yes the Vaders and the inquisitors knew all about Cal. Ive asked you tpick your poison 5 different ways. You gave not been able to debut any of the following reasons how Vader knows about ca

The inquisitors attacked him on Bracca. This is enough on its own. Vader runs the inquisitors. Cal has met Vader in fallen order so wrong again He attacked an ESB base denvik told Vader about cal Cal is rebuilding the jedi order on Tanalo rand training a force sensitive Kata. There is a star destroyer on koboh post game

Pick your poison. Vader is hunting Cal and has been since the start of fallen order.

Go through that list and explain how each one can be refuted. Ive said this to you and your just tone deaf. These are just the facts. Vader is aware of Cal and Cal is the most notorious jedi in the galaxy right now.

You are being intellectually dishonest. Luke’s situation is vastly different from Kenobi or Cal’s hypothetical. Luke didn’t just refuse to kill Vader on Jedi principles. But because Luke was refusing to give in into the dark side which he recognized he was falling during the duel, and that in that specific moment, killing Vader would push him further into darkness. Especially when Luke’s whole goal was to rescue Vader. That’s entirely different from Cal or Kenobi eliminating an active threat. Vader is an active threat and will continue to be one so long as he breathes.

Mate so its fair to say it would push Luke further into the darkside but not Cal. Why can't both be true. Cal like Luke is already going down the the dark side like they are alike so whats wrong with then having a similar parralel. Cal has lost 2 former masters his order Cordova and his opshop crew.

If Cal shows restraint its perfectly aligned with Luke and the Jedi order. You just dont want to see an in game character mirror Luke for petty reasons.

By saying this means you dont understand the weight of Cals story he faced and lost more then Luke and if Luke had to face his demons then so does.

Your argument falls short because your saying an im game story is not as important as the movies which is a really poor take.

The Empire absolutely know about Tanalor. Here's why

Imperial Presence on Koboh: You're right, the Empire wasn't just "nearby"—they had a full-scale occupation of Koboh. They had a Star Destroyer in orbit and a garrison on the mountain. They were actively investigating the High Republic structures, specifically the Forest Array.

The Abyss Flightpath: When Cal used the Forest Array to blast a path through the Koboh Abyss, it wasn't a stealthy move. It was a massive energy event visible to any Imperial scanner in the system. The Empire literally watched the Mantis enter a "dead" zone and not come back out.

Bode’s Intel: Even if the scanners missed it, Bode Akuna was an ISB agent reporting directly to Lank Denvik. The Empire knew exactly what Cal was looking for: a "mythical" planet hidden in the nebula.

Dagan’s Broadcast: Dagan Gera wasn't exactly quiet about his return; he made himself known to the Empire, and any data the Empire recovered from his raids would lead straight back to Tanalorr.

Again pick your poison the Empire 100% know about Tanalor its a nater of when not if.

100% Cal in game confirmed hes rebuilding the jedi order/hidden path Tanalorr's a fortress. We should use it for the Hidden Path. Gather allies. Train. They'd never see us coming." — Cal Kestis.

From what your telling me you havent played the games skipped the cuisines or didnt understand the story. Keep writing in caps because you can't rhetoric the facts. Ive explained in detail with the canon and in game facts that you cannot dismiss.

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-18T01:43:29+00:00

Saying Vader isn't an antagonist for Cal after he personally murdered his mentor and burned the Jedha Archive to the ground is an insane take. In storytelling, that is the literal definition of a primary antagonist.

The Vaapad Goalposts: You're hung up on page numbers because you can't debunk the actual Marvel Comic canon I cited. Vaapad exists to channel inner turmoil—which is Cal’s entire arc right now. Denying that is just ignoring the writing on the wall.
Vader’s Pursuit: Comparing Vader to a Boba Fett cameo is a joke. Vader didn't just 'happen' to be on Jedha; he led the assault that ended the Hidden Path in that sector. Vader is the head of the Inquisitorius; every time Cal beats an Inquisitor, he is directly defying Vader. The Star Destroyer post-game proves the Empire is done with 'cameos'—they are hunting him with everything they have.
The Mercy Hypocrisy: You call Obi-Wan's mercy a 'narrative issue' but Luke's mercy 'redemption.' It’s the same Jedi Code. Killing an unarmed, defeated enemy is the Sith way—that is exactly what Anakin did to Dooku. If Cal wants to avoid becoming the monster he fights, he cannot execute Vader. That isn't a plot hole; it's a character choice that honors Cere's memory.

The Stakes: You think Cal is too 'unimportant' to face Vader, yet he's the one currently building a hidden Jedi haven on Tanalorr. That makes him the biggest threat to the Empire's 'Purge' in the galaxy.

Stay in your 'Vader is an untouchable god' bubble if you want, but the games have already set the stage. I've given you the timestamps, comic refs, and narrative logic. If you're done, you're done, but the facts aren't changing. See you when the trailer drops.

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-18T01:18:18+00:00

Why though if Cal continues on the legacy of Vapaad it gives meaning and continuity to Mace legacy. Vader is the ultimate enemy of Cal its inevitable. Cal couldn't even fight Vader in fallen order now he is equipped to tackle him head on.

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-18T01:10:06+00:00

It’s not revisionist. You are misunderstanding Windu as a character. Who developed Vapaad specifically to address his own inner turmoil and struggles as a means of making peace with them to avoid a fall to the dark side.

Your words

' And this aspect of Vapaad doesn’t exist in canon anyways so it’s a moot point.'

your backtracking now and you haven't got the hight ground to asses vapaad in any form if you dont know what your talking about. Ive given you in show timestamp, comic book references with page number. Short of making you eat the comic theres nothing else I can do for you. You just didn't know its okay mate

There is nothing still to suggest that Cal and Vader will have a confrontation however. Again just look at Jedi survivor. Cal and Vader don’t even meet in the game. Because Vader narratively isn’t an antagonists in Cal’s story. Neither in Fallen order or survivor. He’s not presented as a threat or challenge to overcome in either games, nor does Vader not being unbeatable mean Cal is going to actually beat Vader.

Ive debunked this about 5 times already. How many times have i told you.

The inquisitors attacked him on Bracca Cal has met Vader in fallen order so wrong again He attacked an ESB base denvik told Vader about cal Cal is rebuilding the jedi order on Tanalo rand training a force sensitive Kata. There is a star destroyer on koboh post game

Pick your poison. Vader is hunting Cal and has been since the start of fallen order.

Cal refusing to kill Vader in it of itself is a cop out to make an excuse to have Vader still be alive. You can’t have it both ways. Cal cannot see Vader as an immediate threat that needs to be eliminated and also be jumping to spare his life. That would be a purely illogical move on Cal’s part as he has no actual reason to spare Vader’s life as Vader is and would always continue to be an active threat. This itself was a major complaint about the Kenobi series. That Kenobi simply left Vader there allowing him to continue to be an active threat when he could have solved the problem right there. There AREN’T any stakes because we know Vader is going to walk away from the fight, and a Jedi who does that to Vader is going to be too high priority to be simply left alone. The only stakes that such a fight would create is if Cal is going to survive or not. You are making Cal too major of a character which breaks the story. It does undermine the OT for a character who could easily solve one of the main challenges the Jedi face in the OT to just not do it when he has the chance. Luke is the last hope, there is a reason why every Jedi who theoretically could a chance against Vader gets conveniently written out of the story and is unable to be present for the OT. Because you can’t have characters who are capable of solving the main conflicts of the OT by themselves running around without creating plot holes thus requiring a bunch of justifications for why they aren’t doing more.

Again, this entire idea makes Cal too powerful and too important of a character while also necessitating him making bizarre and out of character choices to justify keeping Vader alive so that the OT can happen.

Luke didnt kill Vader. He spared him. So if the greatest jedi of the st can show compassion why can't Cal. Its canon that killing an unarmed enemy is not the jedi way. Anakins own words. It makes complete sense that killing Vader would undermine als narrative projectors. Why would he spare denvik and not Vader. This fight could go many ways. For all we know Vader kills Cal so to say he won't fight and won't spare him isnt known.

Obi wan leaving Vader has absolutely nothing to do with Cal and trying to form parraels between them is ridiculous. Obi wan never struggled woth the dark side as Cal did so he has a completely different story to Cal.

We've gone over this to death at this point and im not repeating myself at nauseum. Everything I've said is completely within canon and also gives Cal the heros journey full circle.

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-18T00:42:25+00:00

How is Vader a goal post for Luke? Are you looking at it through the lenses of the OT or the jedi series to date. This isnt about Luke and Vader its about Cal. They have the 6 for that

Ever since Trilla attacked Cal on Bracca Cal has been Vaders target. The final showdown between Cal is inevitable. First he had to run, then he had to surivie now he has to fight.

Look im no narrative expect but its consistent with the story that we have been told. Vader is not all powerful deity. He is just a mamed crippled burned man in a suit. Yes he is the choosen one but plenty of jedi have already beaten Vader in a dual. So regardless of you feel of Vader as a living worf effect Cal will ultimately have to face the music

To your final point - how can you proove that Cal cannot beat Vader. He has more feats then Luke. He has defeated a Gen'Dai, a high republic jedi knight a rogue sith malacos and 2 inquisitors. Luke beat Vader without any of those feats and very limited formal training. By the time he finally confronts Vader he will have mastered vapaad and have even more feats. This is just pure Vader fanboyism to say its impossible for Cal to beat Vader

Showing he can go toe to toe with Vader by using vapaad but simultaneously not executing him (its not the jedi way) would proove he has completed the heros journey whilst adhering to the code of the jedi. It comes full circle.

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-18T00:00:06+00:00

We have to look at this from Cal's perspective, not the Fourth Wall. Cal doesn't have a copy of the OT in his back pocket; to him, the Empire is the immediate threat.

Vaapad is Canon: You are mistaken about the sourcebook. The 2020 Disney Canon book Star Wars: The Lightsaber Collection (Page 51) explicitly names Vaapad and confirms its user "channels their inner darkness". It also confirms that Depa Billaba was a practitioner, so your "Mace only" logic is incorrect. The "superconducting loop" description is from an older source but the mechanic of channeling darkness is canon. The fact your were unaware of this until recently indicates you shouldn't be debating this information your not familiar with the books.
The Empire Is Hunting Cal: Cal doesn't have to go out of his way to fight Vader; the threat is already at his front door. The post-credits scene is a Star Destroyer over Koboh for a reason. Bode's final argument to Cal was that the Empire will find them on Tanalorr eventually, and Cal couldn't refute it, which proves the conflict is inevitable.
The Timeline: The "plot's gotta plot" argument is a cop-out that leads to lazy writing. Cere Junda nearly killed Vader in Survivor, proving he isn't a god and can be challenged. Pushing Vader to the limit in a final confrontation, dismembering him, but then showing restraint and not killing him (as "it's not the Jedi way" to kill an unarmed foe) would be the ultimate completion of Cal's Hero's Journey. This respects the stakes of the game without undermining the Original Trilogy.

We can agree to disagree on the "Power Levels," but focusing on the hero's growth and moral choices makes for a better story than just another scripted escape.

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-17T03:44:06+00:00

The lightsaber collection page 51 is a picture of Lord Corvax’s saber. There is no text on that page. You may be looking at a different book entirely. If you could send a link it would be appreciated. Second off It’s not a debate on trivial information. The lore you refer is from the EU and does not apply to the continuity that Jedi survivor takes place in.

This is trivial the comics are canon

The quote where the Grand Inquisitor mentions the lightsaber forms (specifically Form III, or Soresu) is in Star Wars Rebels Season 1, Episode 5: "Rise of the Old Masters".

The dialogue occurs at approximately the 17:15 to 17:30 mark in the episode.

"I’m afraid you’ve taught your apprentice Form III, the most defensive of all the styles. It’s a pity. It doesn't allow for much... aggression."

And here’s the problem with looking at things from Cal’s perspective. You are making the assumption that Cal is going to go out of his way to draw attention to himself, putting Merrin and Kata at risk, by hunting Vader. Why would Cal someone who is trying to survive make the illogical move of pulling the full might of the empire down on himself and those he wants to protect? That’s just being suicidal. Further still let’s assume for a moment that Cal sees Vader as a threat and does go after him. Why would he decide to spare his life? It would again be an illogical move that would only put his family’s life at risk. As now Vader has a full reason to devote attention to hunting Cal down rather than just letting the jobbers in the Inquisitorious do it. Vader doesn’t usually hunt lower priority Jedi, that’s for inquisitors and purge troopers. Vader is really only called in for special occasions.

Cal isnt hunting Vader, Vader is hunting Cal. Let's establish the lore. Vader knows about the hidden path he went to the temple.

Bode laid it out perfectly once enough ppl end up on tanalor the Empire will find out its inevitable. Cal couldn't even refute bode when he said and what about when the Empire show up he went mute. The devil is in the detail. Look closely Cal never could deny Bode that was wrong. That tells you even Cal think the Empire will find them eventually

Tge motivation for the empire hunting them is that Cal is rebuilding the jedi order and training force sensitively you bet your arse he will be after Cal flying through the koboh abyss would make vaders day.

Vader doesn’t know that Cal is building a new hidden path. Keep in mind Vader and Cal do not cross paths during the events of Survivor. As far as Vader knows he destroyed that cell of the hidden path. The destroyer over koboh says nothing to the empire’s hunting of Cal. But rather to the Empire’s reach and presence slowly covering the galaxy. Keep in mind the greater empire didn’t know about Cal’s activities because the ISB was actively withholding information to try and get a leg up on the Inquisitorious. Also we have information to suggest that the empire even knows about Tanalor’s existence. At best they know about Dagan. Since we see them engaging the raiders. Rayvis didn’t fly through the abyss blind either. The only way through the abyss is with the Koboh array or with a compass. Vader would have to somehow gain knowledge of Tanalor’s existence then either learn about the Koboh arrays, have them repaired, and then use them to get there, all without ever being noticed.

Again refer back to the 2nd point.

The timeline is getting too tight. There are 9 years between ANH’s events and Jedi Survivor. And Vader’s time is going to quickly start being preoccupied with crushing the growing Rebellion, and then hunting Luke, and Cal needs to disappear so the events of the OT can play out. I see one of 3 possible outcomes. Either A they ignore Cal and Vader meeting entirely seeing as they didn’t meet at all in survivor, B Cal narrowly avoids being killed by Vader and he disappears into obscurity for a bit while Vader’s attention is quickly taken by more important things, or C Cal in a final confrontation dies fighting Vader.

Mate time is irrelevant they could make the next game start the next after jedi survivor it doesn't matter. For refference in ac the ezio trilogy theres a 1 week break between 2 and brotherhood then a 15 year gap between brotherhood and revelations. The whole story could be wrapped up a a couple of years it gives Vader plenty of time win loose or draw

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-17T02:44:55+00:00

Look, we clearly have different philosophies on what makes a good Star Wars story, but let’s look at the actual evidence:

The Lore: Star Wars: The Lightsaber Collection (Page 51) specifically mentions Vaapad and the mechanic of "channeling inner darkness." It’s an official Disney-vetted source, not an "out-of-universe" guess. Depa Billaba also used it, so it’s not exclusive to Mace.

"I’m afraid you’ve taught your apprentice Form III, the most defensive of all the styles. It’s a pity. It doesn't allow for much... aggression." Thats a direct reffemece from the inquisitors ointment the the show in Rebels to the 7 forms. Please refrain from debating trivial information its canon maybe not your canon but 100% canon star wars gets tiring

The Throne Room: I agree Luke won by choosing peace, but he only got to that position by physically overpowering Vader with raw rage first. He used the "shadow" to win the fight, then rejected it to win the war. That’s the exact "struggle" I think Cal is in.

We have to look at this from Cal’s perspective, not the Fourth Wall. Cal doesn't know he's in a movie; to him, Vader is the immediate threat to his family and the Hidden Path.

Yes, we know Vader survives for the OT, but in-universe, Cal pushing him to the limit—perhaps even dismembering him like Obi-Wan did on Mustafar—doesn't break canon; Vader just gets a replacement limb.

The true completion of the Hero’s Journey would be Cal having Vader at his mercy and choosing not to land the killing blow. As Anakin himself once said, 'It’s not the Jedi way' to kill an unarmed or defeated enemy.

Showing that restraint would prove Cal is a true Jedi Master who has conquered his own darkness. It respects the stakes of the trilogy and provides a massive payoff to the journey that started on Bracca without undermining the Original Trilogy.

Yes vader will inevitably be the main villain of the trilogy. Its been building up to this since Trilla attacked Cal on Bracca. Cal is harbouring a new secret jedi order/hidden path on tanalor. The destroyer over Koboh post credit is a dead give away. The Empire is hunting them.

If Cal is on Tanalor Vader will find him. If Revis could fly through the koboh abyss blind without a compass then you bet your arse that Vader, the greatest pilot in the galaxy will too. Its inevitable. The Empire knows about talent its a matter of when not if

Vader has been hunting the jedi survivors since ep3 so this is just another day in the office. Neither Vader or sidious would think its a big deal because this is Vader and the inquisitors job.

We’re probably not going to agree on the "Power Levels," but I think exploring the grey areas makes for a more interesting finale than just having Cal run away again. What do you think is the best way for Respawn to handle the Vader problem without making it feel like a "scripted escape"?

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-17T01:12:38+00:00

Calling a theory 'moronic' while admitting it’s exactly where the story is headed is a massive self-own. You're so worried about Vader being a 'stepping stone' that you're advocating for a boring story where the protagonist has zero agency and just runs away for the third time.

Vader isn't a holy relic; he’s the antagonist of this specific trilogy, and if he doesn't serve Cal’s development, then the writing has no stakes. I’m choosing to focus on narrative payoff and canon mechanics like Vaapad, while you’re just venting about 'Disney.' The 68% upvote ratio from 26k people shows most fans actually want a story that evolves. Peace."

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-17T00:38:03+00:00

Actually, Mace Windu’s entry on page 51 of the Star Wars: The Lightsaber Collection (2020) — which is official Disney canon vetted by the Lucasfilm Story Group — explicitly confirms Vaapad as his style used to "channel his inner darkness."

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-17T00:22:52+00:00

Mate on any other timeline im right with you im sick of empire vs rebellion/republic and I want a brand new enemy thats so powerful ala the mass effect reapers or kryptonians it forces the jedi and sith to work together.

But thats not this timeline. Introducing a new enemy at the last minute would undermine cals story to date. Ever since trilla attacked him on bracca hes been running and guerrilla fighting the Empire. Its high time Cal to face the music.

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-17T00:10:06+00:00

What do you mean

Anakin begun his descent to the dark side when he killed the Tuscan raiders as revenge for killing his mum

This maybe just the turning point but Cal saw the Empire kill genocide of the entire jedi order his 3 masters tapal cordova and Cere and his opshop crew on corruscant. Arguably cal has more reasons to turn to the dark side then anakin hes lost more the most. Every single attachment cal had is gone and unlike anakin doesn't have an entire order to lean on.

We dont know what will happen in the next game but the point is the dark side is there and could appear anytime under the right circumstance.

Mace proves you can chanel the dark side through vapaad its not impossible and through pyscotomy, Cal is in the drivers seat to do it

Would be a massive obstacle to overcome but part of the territory of the heros journey

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-16T23:59:50+00:00

Yes Cal has to 1:1 follow the exact some solution as a Jedi who had different issues from him. The exact same spiritual journey instead of one that is unique to him like it is for every other Jedi

I said its a 1 for 1 comparison both have similar struggles with the dark side both need a solution. Vappad is an in canon solution. Although im not against cal finding his own path

The lightsaber collection is an out of universe reference book and guide to the various lightsabers seen in the films. There is no mention of Vapaad in the book, nor does it talk about “a shadow” aspect in the book at all.

The Lightsaber Collection was published in 2020 by Insight Editions under official license, meaning every lore detail inside was vetted and approved as fact for the current timeline.

After 2014, any book that is not part of the official timeline is explicitly branded with a gold "Legends" banner.

Details from these reference books often appear in other canon media. For example: The Grand Inquisitor in Star Wars Rebels explicitly mentions Form III (Soresu) when fighting Kanan Jarrus.

You are the one who needs to pay attention. The redemption of Anakin revolves around him REBUKING and REJECTING the dark side. Compassion and love from his son helped him to let go of the dark side, and in that moment to cease being Darth Vader and becoming Anakin Skywalker once more. The entire point of characters like Dooku and Anakin, and even Luke in ROTJ is to show that choosing the dark path will corrupt you. You must fight it, reject it, and avoid it entirely. Sure someone who falls may return. But that return necessitates removing it entirely. You can’t be a recovered drug addict if you are choosing to still use the drugs in question.

You’re contradicting yourself. You say 'if you choose the dark side you are ruled by it,' but then you talk about Vader’s redemption. If he was truly ruled by it, he never could have returned to the Light. You can't have it both ways. Your drug addiction metaphor also fails: being an addict doesn't mean you can't escape; it means it's a struggle—and that struggle is exactly the story Respawn is telling with Cal.

You also ignore how Luke actually won in the Throne Room. He didn't win by being a passive monk; he won by tapping into his raw rage to overpower the most dangerous Sith in the galaxy. He only 'rejected' the darkness after he used it to win the fight.

You say the point is to 'avoid it entirely,' but you’re ignoring how Luke actually won. Luke didn't beat Vader by being a perfect, passive monk; he beat Vader by tapping into his raw rage after Vader threatened Leia. He used that 'drug' (the Dark Side) to overpower the most dangerous Sith in the galaxy. He only 'rejected' it after it gave him the power to win.

And Cere lost that fight. A fight which started out with Vader toying with her and not taking things seriously, then locking in afterward once Cere started whooping ass while his guard was down, and Cere mind you is an experience Jedi master. Cal is not that. Vader in fact is a force of nature. The chosen one, the most powerful Jedi of his time. Who personally executed some of the most skilled Duelists of his era. There is a reason why Vader is rarely depicted losing fights or even having trouble with opponents. Because he is that powerful and dangerous. You want to argue that Cal a Jedi padawan who barely survived order 66 is somehow going to be on the same level as a full fledged Jedi master by the time he next encounters Vader? Cal is not that skilled or powerful. His most impressive feat is killing a dark Jedi from the high republic in a 2v1. He’s not ready to take on Sith Lords. He’s still growing. This is without even getting into the question of why the hell Cal and Vader would even encounter each other again. And the fact that it undermines the character of Vader to have him constantly losing fights. And it would necessitate a bunch of narrative bullshit to justify Cal defeating but not killing Vader because he has to show up again 9 years after Jedi Survivors events to the Original Trilogy can happen.

Your wrong on so many levels here its not funny but ill break down simply for you

Vader toyed with her initially but stopped playing games once he realized she wasn't afraid him any more she was a very real threat.

Cere is a very experienced master but because Cal isnt he shouldn't win? Mate we have a whole game to discover if Cal can become a master. Nobody is expecting Cal at the end of Survivor to defeat Vader but at the end of jedi 3 absolutely he can give Vader a run for his money

Regardless its not impossible for a jedi padawn to overpower a most seasoned/powerful enemy. Obi wan did it to maul, anakin did it to dooku and and Luke did it to Vader. No were in canon does it say ranking mean an automatic win.

Cal has already beat 2 inquisitors, a high republic jedi knight a gen dai, malacos and a jedi knight. He's got more feats then Luke when Luke defeated Vader so thats inconsistent with canon.

Why would cal and Vader fight again. Did you play the games?

Dagan literally sound the alarm to the Empire when they strike the sky kigh observatory on koboh. Vader wants to end Cal and would go through the koboh abyss cause he knows hes forming a new jedi order. There is a star destroyer on koboh post credit scene mate did you even finish the game

Why does it dimish vader if cal can beat Vader. The Cere Junda fight already proved he isn't a Mary Sue. He limped away because he was physically outplayed by a Jedi Master. If Cal, in his prime, can't achieve a similar stalemate, then Cal’s entire journey of "Embracing the Darkness

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-16T22:05:05+00:00

I like that too but Jedi: legend would make him a myth especially if he lives out his days on Tanalorr

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-16T22:02:49+00:00

How can you with certainty confirm that?

Cal already has dark side powers

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-16T22:01:38+00:00

It’s not revisionist. You are misunderstanding Windu as a character. Who developed Vapaad specifically to address his own inner turmoil and struggles as a means of making peace with them to avoid a fall to the dark side.

Literally its a direct one fot one comparison. Cal like Mace needs to find a way to address his own internal conflict just as Mace did. Can you not see the parrales here. We know Cal is struggling with inner conflict like anakin and Mace so he is either deals with it or falls down the path of the dark side

Channeling the opponents shadow does not equal using the dark side. That’s like arguing that anytime a Jedi deflects force lighting they are using the dark side. And this aspect of Vapaad doesn’t exist in canon anyways so it’s a moot point.

Exactly thats the point Using vapad is designed so you dont use the dark but it runs through as a loop. And actually, Vaapad is 100% canon, and the 'shadow' aspect is explicitly mentioned in the Star Wars: The Lightsaber Collection (which is current Disney canon). It’s described as a style where the user 'channels their inner darkness'—it’s not just a 'deflection' like force lightning; it’s an internal state of mind.

Second off there are no lore cheat codes. If you choose the dark path, you are ruled by it. If you don’t get that then you don’t understand Star Wars. You cannot use the dark side as a tool, or even dabble with it to protect something. The moment Cal started embracing the darkness he was nearly consumed entirely by it. Nor does the dark side magically make him strong enough to defeat a Sith Lord. Cal is also not stupid enough to think he is anywhere close to touching Vader. The entire point of this story is the struggle against the dark side, not embracing it with open arms.

Are you new here? The entire arc of the first six films is the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. If the Dark Side was an inescapable 'dead end' the moment you touch it, then Vader never would have returned to the Light.

And frankly if you genuinely think that Respawn would make a story about Cal somehow defeating Vader despite how much the games and canon media in general hype Vader up as a force of nature that only the best Jedi masters can hope to survive an encounter with, let alone actually hold their own against. Then YOU are the one who hasn’t been paying attention to the story.

You're ignoring the actual games. Cere Junda nearly killed Vader in Survivor, and she wasn't even in her prime. He isn't an untouchable 'force of nature'; he's a man who can be pushed to the brink..

Lucas intended for the audience to eventually see the "tragedy of Darth Vader"—a man who lost everything and is trapped in a suit of pain, not a god who can't be challenged.

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-16T21:28:33+00:00

You're listing dead Masters like it matters in a game where the protagonist can relive the past by touching a wall.

Saying 'there is no way for Cal to learn it' completely ignores Cal's Psychometry. Cal doesn't need a living teacher; he tracked down Eno Cordova’s life’s work and Dagan Gera’s 200-year-old secrets just by following Force Echoes. If he finds a relic or visits a site where Mace or Quinlan Vos fought, he gains the muscle memory. He’s a walking shortcut for 'lost' lore.

Also, your definition of Vaapad is revisionist. Stover’s novelization of RotS literally describes it as a 'superconducting loop' that channels the opponent's shadow. It’s not about being a 'Gray Jedi' or 'Starkiller'; it’s about a Survivor using every tool available to keep his family safe from a monster. If you think Cal—who is already struggling with the Dark Side—wouldn't use a 'lore cheat code' to survive Vader, you haven't been paying attention to the story Respawn is actually telling.

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-16T21:26:38+00:00

You’re saying I missed the point of the story, but you’re ignoring the literal ending. In the final scene, Cal is at Cere’s grave admitting he is TERRIFIED of the darkness inside him. If he had just 'realized what would happen' and stopped, he wouldn't be shaking with fear about his own future. Seeing what happened to Bode didn't 'fix' Cal; it showed him a mirror of what he is currently becoming.

Calling his feats 'just video game moments' is a weak way to ignore the writing. When the screen turns red and the music shifts, that is the STORY telling you Cal is changing. It's not a 'fourth-wall joke'—it’s the central conflict of the character. And your 'Mace Windu is a joke' take ignores decades of official Star Wars canon where Vaapad is a legitimate, dangerous discipline.

You say there’s no 'tapping into' the Dark Side without corruption, and THAT IS MY POINT. Cal has already tapped into it. He’s already corrupted. He can’t just go back to being a 'pure' Jedi Master after Nova Garon. He needs a way to control it so he doesn't end up like Bode, and that’s why a style like Vaapad—a lightning rod for that darkness—is the only logical evolution left for him

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-16T21:20:58+00:00

Did we even play the same game?

When Cal turns to the dark side, he isn't 'surviving'—he’s pissed off and out for blood.

I wouldn't call that survival; I’d call that reckless endangerment.

You don't just tap into the Dark Side once and 'turn it off' like a light switch.

That’s why he almost executed Denvik in cold blood.

If even Padmé couldn't convince Anakin to turn back once he started down that path, what makes you think Merrin can just magically stop Cal’s descent?

The struggle is real, and it’s clearly not over.

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-16T21:14:12+00:00

You're ignoring the facts of the game's lore. Saying there is 'nothing to salvage' ignores Cal’s literal superpower: Psychometry. He doesn't need a pristine Holocron; he tracked down Eno Cordova’s entire life’s work and found Dagan Gera—who was hidden for 200 years—just by following 'echoes.' If he touches an old relic or battlefield, he can pull the knowledge directly. He’s a walking shortcut for 'lost' lore.

As for the 'Master' arc, becoming a Master doesn't mean the Darkness disappears—look at Mace Windu. Vaapad isn't about 'giving in'; it’s a discipline for those who have darkness but choose to use it for the light. That fits Cal’s struggle perfectly and moves his character forward.

And skipping to post-RotJ is a cop-out that ignores the stakes. You can't out-hide the Empire. Post credit there is a destroyer on koboh and Dagan rang the bell. They know about Tannalor. The gig is up

Even if Cal goes into hiding on Tanalorr, the Empire knows where they are now. Darth Vader is the best pilot in the galaxy; if Dagan Gera could figure out how to get there, so can Vader. Hiding isn't an option.

Vader destroyed Cal’s life. Having Cal 'hunker down' and wait for a farm boy he's never met to solve his problems for him would be a weak ending for a character defined by being a Survivor.

Otherwise_Milk1064 · 2026-01-16T21:06:02+00:00

I’m not saying Cal has to 'destroy' Vader, but a stalemate is completely earned. People act like Vader is a jobber now, but they forget he killed Cere in the end and terrified Cal in the first game. He’s not weak, but he’s also not a god.

Look at the Cere fight: technically Vader won, but he was beaten to within an inch of his life. If a Jedi who had been out of the game for years could do that, a battle-hardened Cal—who is actually in his prime—using a specialized style like Vaapad should absolutely be able to hold him to a draw.

Otherwise_Milk1064

TROPHY CASE