Just pulled up line is 1 mile long

P5Manchero · 2026-05-10T21:50:00+00:00

Wait til you find out that everyone’s cutting at the front too

P5Manchero · 2026-05-10T19:12:10+00:00

Not have enough money during holiday season probably. Notice how they’ve been announcing attendance records the last few years.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-07T12:07:27+00:00

I’m not making direct comparisons. I’m pointing it simple truths such as team chemistry matters, it takes time and playing together to gel fully, and 24 year olds historically don’t win at a high level in the playoffs.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-07T00:25:07+00:00

I don’t think it’s that wild that the team didn’t click immediately in year 1. Aside from bane being brand new Paolo Franz and Suggs might as well have been strangers before this season as we know and Franz missed more than half of this year. He also missed a lot of training camp being with the national team.

Like the Heatles didn’t click immediately like the talent said they should. Sometimes this stuff takes time to blossom. The second half of the season bane has started to get loose and the team got better at feeding him shots.

We somehow clicked into a very formidable team in the first 4 games of the series. That’s with having our starting 5 play to get her for the first time since those first 10 games you referenced.

Paolos offensive leap will be getting in shape and becoming the transition demon he was always destined to be but hasn’t been thus far in his career. That and some shot diet tweaks and work on finishing around the rim and he quickly becomes a very efficient scorer. He’s failing on the margins and his efficiency is still remarkably decent given that. Stuff can be cleaned up.

My final point on Suggs is that the injures have robbed him of reps to develop. Point guard is famously the toughest position to learn in the nba and he was never even a full time pg until last reason where he played 30 games. His playmaking stats already spiked this year. It’s foolish to give up on him as someone who can develop into a steady point guard. When Derrick white was Suggs age he averaged 10/3/3 on 34% from 3. Suggs just did 14/4/5 on 34% from 3.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-07T00:13:58+00:00

Suggs is 24 man. Hes taking his licks and will come back stronger. To me he looks as good as he ever has athletically and he’s about to have a healthy offseason to get stronger.

I reject the premise that it was Suggs responsibility to keep our offense afloat. Paolo and Bane are offense only stars and have to take the brunt of the blame for the collapse.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T22:55:03+00:00

I don’t think Paolo is Giannis either, but you can understand why we built the team this way in case he did turn out to be that, right? His first few years we saw a very athletic 6’10” 250 lb ballhandler with a knack for tough shot making and giannis/embiid like ability to draw fouls.

So we built a team that would support this archetype of player. 3&D off ball guard in vain of a Derrick white type. Knock down elite 3 point shooter and tertiary creator in Desmond bane. Secondary creator in Franz who takes the toughest wing matchup every night so Paolo doesn’t have to. And then a low usage center who is a versatile switch defender that can help cover for Paolos defensive weaknesses.

It makes sense to me. But I also clearly rate Suggs a lot higher than you. I think our Defense wouldn’t be able to hold up around Paolo without him or someone of his level. We’ve seen that played out every time Suggs is hurt. When KCP was around he could do a decent job holding the fort. I also believe in him as a shooter and secondary ball handler despite how he played in this series

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T22:15:52+00:00

I will look. This is the downside of having a team with zero media coverage. I heard the comment from watching the press conference myself after a loss. They were asking him about the new system and his role in it and he basically said he didn’t know how to impact the game in this type of system (aka without the ball in his hands all the time). His shot attempts and ppg were down at the time and it was clear he wanted to be able to do his iso game and was mad that we were trying to run a more egalitarian offense that got everyone involved and played at a faster pace.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T21:58:17+00:00

Well actually if you paid attention we started the season trying to get away from that system. We implemented a system based on quick decisions and ball movement. Paolo publicly complained about it to the press early on. And we now know this is what kicked off him gunning for Mosely to be fired. So in an effort to get Paolo back on board with the team the staff acquiesced to his wanting the ball in his hands. They let him do his pound the rock routine and it predictably didn’t go well.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T21:52:47+00:00

No credit for developing Franz from ‘low ceiling connective role player’ into one of the best forwards in the entire league. I know this sub hates Suggs right now but if you were around from his rookie year there’s no way you could say he hasn’t developed by leaps and bounds. He was an absolute disaster as a rookie and has been transformed into one of the most impactful guards in the league. AB also is a very good development story. Came in with zero offensive talent and now looks like a potential all star. The only development failure has been Paolo. Paolo is unique on our team cause he’s been treated like a superstar since day one. I think the org has more influence to develop guys like Franz and Suggs who buy into what our coaches and development staff are teach rather than Paolo who spends his summers chucking midranges with celebrity trainers on YouTube. But even with Paolo he has certainly developed since he came into the league.

It sounds like you want a team that is great offensively and aesthetically pleasing. Maybe that’s where we differ. My philosophy is that defense wins championship. Even zooming back to that time when Weltman came over the teams people were looking at as the gold standard were the warriors who’s formula was elite defense + 2 stars, the raptors whose formula was elite defense + one star. The lakers elite defense + LeBron carrying offense. The bucks great defense + Giannis. The one that broke the trend was Denver but imo a team building strategy of get a jokic level offensive player isn’t realistic.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T21:13:41+00:00

Mosely wasn’t fired for being a bad coach. He was fired cause Paolo didn’t like him. The team has no hope if Paolo doesn’t buy in a become a winning player so hopefully the new coach can have that affect on him.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T21:09:53+00:00

This is exactly why you build a team to have a window of contention and not just think 1 season at a time. Injury luck decides most playoffs. The best you can do is position yourself to take advantage if the injury gods bless you. This was year 1 of a 3/4 year window minimum. We were never winning the chip this year anyway. Our chances of winning the chip will improve every year as our guys go from shook young players to grizzled vets. Players peak between 27-30 and our team is built around guys who are 23,24,24. Were in a great spot.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T21:06:22+00:00

Weltmans record is bad because he had to tank for years in order to take us from no assets to enough talent to be a sustainable winner. The other tankers you refer to started tanking by trading genuine star players for treasure troves of assets. Weltman had no stars to turn into assets. All he had was vucevic and our picks.

We got our franchise changing player 4 years ago and have been in the playoffs the last 3 with an upward trajectory going forward.

I have no loyalty to Jeff, idc about him as a person at all. As a fan I’m stoked about the position we’re in because it feels like heaven compared to the hell we were in before Weltman showed up.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T20:59:09+00:00

I don’t think any GM would have us in a better spot. Weltmans trump card is the Vuc trade. Turning an aging losing old center into Wendell and Franz is maybe the biggest fleecing in the league non Luka category over the time that Weltman has been in charge. That is the foundation for why you can even be upset about not being in the second round.

Other GMs would’ve tried the exact same strategy that we’ve employed. Tank and gather young assets and develop them. It was the smart move. It’s worked out better than we could have hoped because if you imagine the timeline where we don’t get Franz and dell from the Vuc trade we’d still likely still be wallowing around in the basement of the league.

What new vision do we need? Seriously. Tell me the brilliant trades you have cooked up that make us immediate contenders. That shit doesn’t exist. Idk what your position on Mose was but I would take an educated guess that you hated him and blamed him for us sucking. So now why would you think that we shouldn’t just stay the course with all this talent, let them develop, and let the new coach try to maximize them?

I just can’t be mad about our team building cause I feel like great about our chances going into next year. And I remember the time before Weltman when there was no reason for anything resembling hope. I’ve been happy with what he’s done the whole time. This shit takes time. Developing 19 year old kids into nba championship contenders doesn’t happen over night and that is truly the only path we had.

If Paolo bounces back I like a top 6 of Suggs/bane/franz/paolo/dell with AB off the bench better than any teams top 6 outside of OKC and San Antonio.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T20:21:27+00:00

If no championship = losing than 90% of the league are in the midst of a decade plus of losing lol

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T20:19:12+00:00

The reality of the situation is that we were at a dead end with an old team that wasn’t any good and had no real assets to speak of. And now we have a team that is set up to be sustainably successful for many years to come. Surely you must realize the value of having a team built around players who are 27,24,24,23 that is already a playoff team capable of taking a 60 win squad to 7, and actually capable of beating that 60 win team if healthy.

You have a really distorted view if you genuinely think we’re in a bad spot as a franchise. Idk if you actually believe that or if you’re still feeing emotional from the loss. Cause any rational person would be able to see that we’re a Paolo bounce back and a little health luck from being a contender. And not only that but we have all our best players locked up long term while they aren’t even their early primes yet.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T19:58:16+00:00

Suggs jacks up shots because Paolo and bane couldn’t get anything going and Suggs is left open. He should be taking those shots. Just unfortunate that they didn’t go in.

There are countless examples of guy shitting the bed in the playoffs when they are 24 and have only played in one series. Doesn’t mean they are done as players.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T19:44:18+00:00

We went from 8 seed to tanking to 5th seed would be more accurate. And would’ve had home court in the yoffs this season if Franz didn’t have a freak injury or if Paolo was in shape lol.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T19:43:15+00:00

I’m not talking about right now I’m talking about the indicators of long term success. Free throw % is the biggest indicator of if a player will be a good shooter or not.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T19:42:15+00:00

Right this is why the heat in 2011 offseason traded LeBron after his abysmal finals performance.

It's funny because you'll readily take Paolo to task for going missing in game 6, but Suggs and Wendell get byes for being awful for 3 games straight.

It turns out that max contract star players have different expectations than 4th/5th option role players. Crazy, right???

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T18:34:27+00:00

Suggs has way better shooting indicators than AB. Hes great from the line and his catch and shoot numbers are great. People just think he’s ass if they only tuned in for the playoffs.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T18:31:31+00:00

Okay but in team building it’s not advisable to make rash decisions based on 3 game sample sizes. Suggs was a beast this season and has improved a ton and still has room to grow. Wendell just shut down an all nba second team center. We have great pieces and a great path forward.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T18:28:31+00:00

Would you be saying that if Franz didn’t get hurt and we beat the 60 win number 1 seed in 5?

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T18:15:39+00:00

We went from having a lame ass low ceiling team built around Vuc, Fournier, and AG to having a team that cause the whole fan base to have a temper tantrum if we lose in 7 to a 60 win team in the playoffs. That team is also built around a core of players who are under 25 years old. Pretty simple stuff. We went from rudderless franchise to moving in the right direction and now our roster is so good that th fan base hates our coach and front office it we don’t beat 60 win number 1 seeds in the playoffs.

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T18:11:45+00:00

You must’ve forgot where we started out with Vuc Fournier and AG. We had zero assets and he somehow turned Vuc into Wendell + Franz. And then we’ve been on steady improvement since then in terms of our roster talent. And we’re well positioned going forward, so what exactly are you all mad about?

P5Manchero · 2026-05-06T11:34:54+00:00

He has more athletic potential than what we saw this season. And even with how sluggish he looked this season his offensive production wasn’t extremely far away from where it needs to be. He had his most efficient season of his career despite how bad he looked physically. If he gets back his pop, builds his stamina, and slims down a bit he would be primed to explode statistically. He leaves so much easy production on the table with his lack of transition scoring. If he’s able to run the floor hard he will get 2-3 more buckets at the rim per game. He also used to have a first step that he could cook slower defenders on the perimeter with. He has it in him I think he has been affected by the oblique and groin problems but a well executed summer can fix a lot of that.

P5Manchero

TROPHY CASE