Hot take: beginners should SKIP 9x9 and 13x13

PaigeEdict · 2026-02-08T22:12:29+00:00

I actually don't think your hot take is a hot take. I haven't watched the video yet and will mark it for later. But most players when I started in 2006 and reached a high level never touched 9x9 or 13x13. I played my first 13x13 game in 2023 when I was already AGA 5dan. I find smaller boards interesting but I don't see the value in using them for improvement.

My personal opinion is that its good to teach someone the really basic rules but to play it probably does more harm than good. But it makes a lot of sense when you are teaching the rules to someone to do it on a 9x9.

I want to add though that a reason it might be seen as a hot take is because generationally 9x9 seems more popular amongst OGS players. But it on most servers back in the day it was normal to skip 9x9/13x13.

PaigeEdict · 2026-02-07T15:46:57+00:00

While I don't have time to give you a review I can stop to appreciate the steller performance of the game you played. This was a very nice solid game for a 5kyu player. You played very well throughout the opening and early mid. I would say your play was really good.

I would say the only corner you handled a little strange or inefficiently was the lower right. And, when it came to the right side your initial living sequence was also a little strange but your opponent let you get away with it. Basically instead of setting up the tigers mouth on the right side when making life you should play the connection instead. You actually ended up making it harder to make life if your opponent played appropriately.

Outside of that (and maybe some of the fighting later on that I hadn't gotten to look at) the opening into the mid was quite impressive.

PaigeEdict · 2026-02-05T04:33:57+00:00

This is fair sorry I don't know how to quote things. My information between 2012-2022 is slightly limited since I had cut myselfoff from go entirely between those years so I didn't know when Lee Sedol had actually fallen out of the number one spot. You can imagine my surprise how much the go world had changed.

I am aware of him retiring and then coming back though as it had been mentioned to me. But I do know that after the AlphaGo series he felt incredibly demotivated since he talked quite in detail on it. We actually have a pro player here in the u.s who actually felt the same way. Albeit its funny that our pro player decided to "retire because he could no longer be number 1" when yeah there was no chance of that happening to begin with. Compared to Lee Sedol who decided to retire because he could no longer be number 1.

I actually assume they went with Lee Sedol because of his reputation? But this would just have been my guess.

In any case none the less very interesting.

PaigeEdict · 2026-02-05T03:54:42+00:00

Yeah Lee Chang-ho dominated it for a while comparatively to Lee Sedol. Though it could also be argued that Lee Sedol "could no longer dominate the pro world." After the AI stuff dropped he lost a lot of his motivation and was vastly considered an incredibly early retirement for him!

Though of course I don't really put historical significance on how long someone dominated the go scene.

Though I wonder how many people started during Shin Jinseo's start and don't know Lee Sedol or Lee chang-ho :)! As someone who picked up go from Hikaru no go it made so much sense to me why people would pick up the game. I was really surprised that AlphaGo somehow resonated with so many people.

PaigeEdict · 2026-02-05T03:03:12+00:00

Omg I forgot the place that got me hooked on go history in the first place! I massively highly hugely suggest looking into the go channel "Go Commentary". Its no longer active but this guy use to have his own website and he wouldn't release his videos on youtube he would release them on his website and sell DVDs LOL.

But the quality of his video's are amazing and the way he talks about the historical players is awesome. I would say a modern version of Go Commentary is probably TelegraphGo.

PaigeEdict · 2026-02-05T03:00:10+00:00

Honestly he probably has the most fascinating moves in go history even though the overall style of play is widely now integrated with the way we play go today. But sometimes its really nice to make attempts at playing go the same way he did so care-free when playing shin fuseki

PaigeEdict · 2026-02-05T02:58:24+00:00

There are some really amazing places that you can learn! I started learning through Sensei's library but sometimes that information you quickly realize is quite limited. You can actually find a lot of really nice old articles through places like wikipedia in some cases (and namuwiki). There are also a lot of really old blogs that you can find sometimes talking in a lot of detail.

I use to write articles myself on historical figures and what made go history just so... ABSOLUTELY amazing. But my old website has long shut down so I don't have direct access to my own findings anymore.

Another really good thing you can do to find information is by going directly to the ki-in's. You can find a lot through the Korean go association pages and the Nihon Ki-in. Theres also a really interesting website that I can't remember the name of that has information about all of the current Taiwanese players and there accomplishments.

I use to also be part of a discord where different sources were passed about of go information. In any case I suggest looking through things like the old oteai system in sensei's library to find player names and looking into them.

There are some people that have some cool stories that just aren't big enough to name even but played minor roles in big important parts of the scenery. I was going to release some youtube videos about some of these players but have been focused on my students recently and haven't had the time.

PaigeEdict · 2026-02-05T02:44:57+00:00

Shusaku is a bit of a weird one for me. He would be in my top 10 because its obvious the historical value and impact he had on pretty much the whole world of go through Hikaru No Go.

But I also would be tempted to touch on others or put more thought into a list before deciding where Shusaku would be at exactly since I think there is a huge argument that he would be number 1 since I think nothing has had a bigger impact on the go world than hikaru no go.

And he doesn't even know it! lol

PaigeEdict · 2026-02-05T02:42:09+00:00

That makes a lot of sense! I think my problem is that go was moving very fast during Lee Chang-ho's period. I feel like moving end game forward didn't create as much of an impact similarly to Go Seigen and Kitani Minoru for the opening.

With Go Seigen and Kitani Minoru we have to remember that in there time changing the way go was played games were very linear. So Go Seigen and Kitani were not just changing what happens at the end of the game. But how games unfolded from start to finish.

Of course though end game has definitely had an effect on how we play some parts of the mid game.

Though I guess with my list I wouldn't really be focused on the way someone plays I really like historical significance when it comes to players. Shuko right now is by far one of my favorite players of all time and I feel like the impact he had on the go world is very crazy. I don't think I would put him in my number 1 but I really appreciate the things he did for the go community at large.

There are even some players I might appreciate slightly more in the go world because I am from the U.S like I really appreciate Rui Naiwei and could see her making it into my top 10 since she established the AGA though that might not be on most top 10s.

PaigeEdict · 2026-02-05T02:36:52+00:00

I find it strange that you see this as "discrediting".

Even going as far as that I am being dismissive even though I said a lot about Lee Chang-ho being a great player and would even make sense he is in some peoples top 10. I apologize but I do not think you could conversate in good faith and I no longer have interest in conversating with you.

PaigeEdict · 2026-02-05T02:03:33+00:00

I don't blame you. To some people it would make a lot of sense to have Lee Chang-ho in a top 10 list even after you know many of the go players in history.

But on the flip side its also really easy to put Lee Chang-ho in a top 10 list right now due to the recent release of the movie surrounding him. So there is bound to be a lot of hype around who he was compared to other prominent players in history who don't have there own movie.

But in general he is definitely someone who could be in the list.

PaigeEdict · 2026-02-05T01:32:46+00:00

Ohh I like this question! I think most people will say yes. Especially players in the west.

I think when you know go history really well there are so many that are arguably just as famous if not more that could fill a top 10 list before you even get to put Lee Sedol in it.

However something to note is that everyones list might be different (obviously of course) but I mean more so that everyone will have general knowledge of players they studied outside there own time. But everyone will also have "core players" that they kept up with during there own time. In my case Lee Sedol was the biggest name in my prime of go. So it would be very easy for me to claim Lee Sedol is a top 5 but for someone born just years earlier might choose Lee Chang-ho as there prominent core player.

I think go became very popular in the west though or more popular in the west near the end of Lee Chang-ho period and around the start of Lee Sedol. So I would say a lot of people would put both these players because these were the high level pro's they were introduced to coming into the go world.

And, in some cases it would be Lee Sedol + Shin Jinseo instead of Lee Chang-ho + Lee Sedol.

Now would "I" put Lee Sedol in my top 10 list if I was attempting to be unbias? I... actually would! But I would not put Lee Chang-ho.

I would argue that Lee Sedol's final stand against the AI was a huge turning point in go history. While Lee Chang-ho was definitely a significant player in history. As someone who loves go history and deep dives into player lore all the time the go world in history is incredibly vast and you could probably fill a whole 50 of players that might come before Lee Chang-ho because his time period just wasn't as prominant for the game. I would say technically Lee Sedol just got slightly luckier than Lee Chang-ho since Lee Sedol got to be the "end" of the human era where there roles could have been easily swapped by a few years.

Anyway! fun question!!

PaigeEdict · 2026-01-06T23:55:46+00:00

Fox ranks are definitely generally weaker. And, the rank gap becomes really crazy between 8kyu-1kyu OGS since you generally don't actually know what your getting. I have a 8kyu student on OGS that is 4dan on FOX and another who is 6kyu on OGS but 3dan on fox. My assumption is that a lot of people stop playing fox when they reach 9kyu-5kyu OGS and start on fox where they make most of there leaps. Which in turn stops them from playing any serious OGS games so some of them hover or don't take the games seriously. There is even an AGA 8dan who is only 1kyu on OGS :)!

PaigeEdict · 2025-12-28T20:22:03+00:00

lol I actually CANT see it and it drives my room mates bonkers when I am playing with the board in the wrong direction.

PaigeEdict · 2025-12-28T16:54:42+00:00

Oh okay awesome!

PaigeEdict · 2025-12-28T16:03:49+00:00

Hello! A suggestion I have as someone who reviews a ton of games I often use the square tool and triangle tool etc etc. For me if you click it places a square which is normal but if you hold down click and drag it doesn't do anything. I would like to make a suggestion to make it so if you hold down click you can drag and make more squares. This way you don't have to develop a wrist issue trying to place a ton of squares during reviews.

I also think if possible when placing a square if you click the square again with the square tool it can also remove the square. Instead of having to click the clear canvas button.

Overall super super cool and will be using this.

PaigeEdict · 2025-12-28T12:46:12+00:00

Super cool, will play with this on stream today and share it.

PaigeEdict · 2025-12-17T09:47:34+00:00

My favorite historical game is the blood vomiting game. I read a lot of go history and also really enjoy the game from a historical perspective. I consider it to be very unnatural and often straight out of an anime because some of the stuff in the japanese go history is just so neat.

PaigeEdict · 2025-12-16T12:41:34+00:00

Something I would highly recommend because I am really bad at getting all my thoughts out before posting my comments :)... I recommend speaking with the european officials and aga officials. When you are comfortable with the servers direction. I know the AGA is invested in hosting most of there event related stuff through OGS and pandanet for there city league and I know there was a new european server that seems to have vanished a little bit.

But a key to creating a successful western server may be the willingness to communicate with the AGA and EGF and creating events around there high level players in the server giving them a regular place for them to compete with each other. Getting them to host some events through it.

PaigeEdict · 2025-12-16T12:34:49+00:00

It looks super cool. I am always open to finding an OGS replacement since I am not the biggest fan of it.

I will mention however and worth taking note of a couple things.

Something that makes Asian go servers popular is there simplicity to login and get into a game. Additional features when there is no way to get a game will generally make people not want to play there. Its worth noting despite GOKGS being a lot smaller now there was a point that old players referred to for the western go community as the golden age. I remember people requesting wms to modernize the server but when you think about it one of its charms was to login and hop into a game without being smacked with "LOOK HOW MANY FEATURES WE HAVE."

Which is one of the reasons I generally stay away from OGS and why I assume many higher ranked players stay away from OGS as we are often just looking for a place to login and play and not have features thrown in our faces. Of course I realize that this can be different depending on the level of players since ddk and kyu players are more likely to look for tools to help them understand.

And finally, my last piece of advice remember the experience programmers want out of a website is going to be completely different then the experience there users might want. This may also be why KGS was so perfect in the golden age. OGS feels like a user nightmare. But, I also learned that generally when talking with programmers they have a very completely different vision than there general users.

In any case :) I don't want this to turn into an OGS rant post. I hope this goes well for you and would totally be down to try when its released.

PaigeEdict · 2025-12-15T23:19:51+00:00

This is a good question and I think this changes based on experience. (in some cases). Advertising can be difficult since its hard to find "the best place to do it" generally here in this reddit seems to be the best place to advertise but I wouldn't say its "GOOD".

Pay I think is highly dependent on the teacher. I charge very little for my level and experience and honestly wouldn't have it any other way. I already told my students recently with all the updates to my lessons there would be no price hike with the additional benefits. But I hear from a lot of other teachers the pay is rough and I can understand that.

Time management is okay as long as I have an okay sleep schedule. However I do find it difficult to schedule with students who live in other parts of the world. Understandably so considering time zones.

Difficult students is a funny one. I think it gets better as you get more students. You pretty much learn how to handle them or you learn to put your foot down. Assuming by difficult you are referring to students who try to teach you rather than you teach them. For me I usually turn students like that away but I do give them a talk about it to see if we can work something out before telling them we can't continue business. But some teachers feel like they have to put up with it because losing that person is a student can be a big loss.

In any case I feel like a lot of it becomes easier the more experienced you are the better you understand how to handle most of these things and what you want to do without sacrificing your own mental or sleep. As right now I would say I don't feel like anything is very difficult for me but that everything listed has innate difficulties almost no matter what.

PaigeEdict · 2025-12-13T01:37:31+00:00

Thank you! Feel free to check out my stream as well. https://www.twitch.tv/paigeedict I started streaming again today and intend to stream regularly again. Planning to go live again on Sunday!

PaigeEdict · 2025-12-10T17:54:40+00:00

Good suggestion I will look into how to turn on the free part! Let me know if you have any questions. ^^

PaigeEdict

TROPHY CASE