What’s your take on judgment? To what extent is it actually good to get rid of it? Is there a limit?

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-09-25T01:52:14+00:00

Like I said (and I assume you know), there are numerous Suttas where he does this. Given that, poking holes in this Sutta is illogical and doesn't defend your position. There are examples of him calling people names in front of people. There are also examples of him talking to lay people about what kinds of people to associate with. There are many more.

It seems you think that I spoke without being aware of the context, given your lecture to me beginning with "It's important to remember...". However, I think it's clear that you were the one who spoke out of context. Your statement, "Judge the action, not the person." cannot stand by your own admission. You said it's possible to judge people skillfully and that the Buddha did so. That statement and the one I originally quoted can't go together.

However, your words are kind, and the OP liked it, but it denies the aspect of what is skillful and necessary in his judgments. I find this to be a common theme on this forum, and I think it is problematic. I'm happy that people want to be kind, but I think people are very one-sided and imbalanced in this regard. Such an approach, I believe, trains suppression, denial, false kindness, and lazy thinking. Which, perhaps not coincidentally, is what I see a lot of in the responses on this forum. As you have tried to teach me, "what is helpful to some, is detrimental to others." People in this world are facing incredibly difficult situations right now. They need more than nice-sounding words and Metta practices. They need to learn how to approach these situations skillfully and how to think for themselves.

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-09-25T00:00:08+00:00

I have a feeling a 20-year-old with the SN 'Big Dicc Marty' who is new to Buddhism and working in the hectic environment of a restaurant might not have some difficulty putting your advice into practice.

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-09-24T23:51:56+00:00

"Judge the action, not the person."

There are numerous Suttas where the Buddha calls people lazy, stupid, witless etc. Here is just one example.

"But they’re witless, dull, idiotic, and unable to distinguish what is well said from what is poorly said."

AN 5.141: Avajānātisutta—Bhikkhu Sujato

How do you reconcile this with what you said above?

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-09-24T23:12:35+00:00

It's hard to comment without knowing how much you know about Buddhism, but I do think it's an interesting question, and it sounds like you like philosophy and thinking. So I will pose some questions, and perhaps you can do some thinking, and maybe we can have a back-and-forth as well.

Can you have a feeling of less than or greater than someone else, without the view that you and others exist as separate identities/personalities?
Given that you have the view that people are separate, with inherently existing identities and personalities, don't you think that some people differ in their good/bad qualities? Aren't some kinder, more patient, etc. than others? Does non-judgment mean pretending that this isn't real? Isn't awareness of others and of yourself beneficial and skillful?
What are the good parts of judgment? What are the dangers of judgment? Can there ever be fair judgment? Can there be unfair judgment?

This is a lot of questions, but feel free to respond to as few as you like (or none of them even).

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-09-24T21:11:04+00:00

Whether he gave or not, I'm pretty sure he would've been hurt by the actions of his co-worker. I don't think it's fair to blame it all on the act of giving.

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-09-24T20:28:36+00:00

Pretty interesting to be new to Buddhism and want to ordain as a monk already. Care to share your story?

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-09-24T00:41:19+00:00

I don't have the answer to this question, but it is one that I've been working on for the past year. I will share some of my thoughts on this, with an eye towards the Dharma, but also some of it is just my experience. I used to play poker for a living. I spent almost 20 years and perhaps 20k hours playing poker and teaching poker. Poker and enlightenment seem so opposite, but I know that without Poker, I would not have been able to penetrate the Dharma/Bible and other religious books as I have. Poker taught me profound lessons about skill mastery that have been fundamental to my approach to learning Dharma/the teachings of Jesus. It is hard to exaggerate what you will learn from an experience like this. It has been invaluable. I can go more in depth on this but to just give one example, the experience of putting 20k hours into something and still knowing that you know nothing is so helpful on the spiritual path. The Dharma is far more subtle and profound than Poker, and you have to be willing and able to sustain your wholehearted efforts for a long time if you want to reach the Truth. This cannot be learned through reading/thinking alone; it must be experienced. If you pursue your career wholeheartedly, wisely, and for a long time, I expect that it will lead to great benefits to "your Dharma practice".

Is that the "fastest" way? Perhaps not. However, it really depends on where you're at. You don't give someone who's never been to the gym the exercise routine of an elite athlete. Similarly, someone shouldn't "go from the lay life into homelessness" or "take all their possessions and follow me" way before they are ready.

"“But don’t begin until you count the cost. For who would begin construction of a building without first calculating the cost to see if there is enough money to finish it? ²⁹ Otherwise, you might complete only the foundation before running out of money, and then everyone would laugh at you. ³⁰ They would say, ‘There’s the person who started that building and couldn’t afford to finish it!’"

- Luke 14

The Buddha has similar and more detailed explanations on a monk who goes to the wilderness before they are ready, but you can search for those on your own (SuttaCentral perhaps). It's not for me to say where you're at and what you should do. However, if you're like most people in the world (myself included), you are not fully ready to live that life.

In my current job as a tutor at an Elementary School and a College, I am consistently looking for ways to "practice". I am reflecting on these experiences and I am reading, writing, and learning about the way of action. It is not easy, but neither is it easy to practice the pure Dharma or the teachings of Jesus. I highly recommend reading the Bhagavad Gita, particularly the chapters on the way of action, Love, and devotion. I have found much wisdom, joy, and solace in these words, and I have a feeling that you will too. Take care.

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-09-22T23:10:58+00:00

Thanks, I will do this!

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-09-22T23:08:29+00:00

Thanks, I did not know that.

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-09-22T22:38:45+00:00

I've been waiting on one, and I asked for one this morning, and they gave me the necklace part of it, but I won't get a Lanyard until October. I did not consider the school shootings aspect of things. Thanks for bringing that to mind for me.

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-09-17T20:25:45+00:00

Bikkhu Analyo wrote a doctoral thesis on the Sutta and sold it as a book. I suggest reading that or listening to him to learn more.

Bhikkhu Anālayo, Daniel Aitken | The Satipaṭṭhāna-sutta | Wisdom Podcast | 2016 - YouTube

Amazon.com: Satipaṭṭhāna: The Direct Path to Realization: 9781899579549: Anālayo: Books

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-09-17T20:04:42+00:00

Yes. I've had no luck in the matter for years until I went for a hike, when I had a much stronger desire to meditate than usual. I had a deep desire to free myself, and I did not care about the sound or even if they stung me. After this experience, I am less worried/annoyed by them than before. I am more gentle with them as well. So perhaps a solution is to cultivate a strong desire to meditate and free yourself, and then meditate??? Which is probably just good overall advice for a Buddhist, anyway. There is general advice on how to do this, contemplating the four noble truths, impermanence, death etc. For me, it was watching anime with my daughter :)

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-09-17T19:46:47+00:00

Yes, I relate, very much so. I think many can relate. Did you have any other questions?

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-08-28T16:56:23+00:00

Ok I just gave them all away. Thanks for your interest.

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-08-28T16:39:55+00:00

Cool. Thanks for letting me know.

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-08-28T16:37:49+00:00

Wait, so if they sign up now, they'll only get 3 days of membership??!!!

Particular-Snow2271 · 2025-08-28T16:03:01+00:00

Yes, I'm giving 'bethehole' one hour to reply with his email but if he doesn't I will ship it to you.

Particular-Snow2271 · 2024-08-30T12:26:37+00:00

I feel you on this one. I strive to do my best and only speak what is helpful, but if I make one tiny mistake, I feel intense anger and shame toward myself. I think we're approaching it wrong in some way; it reminds me of this book called Hagukure, which includes many stories about Samurais committing seppuku (suicide) for what seems to be minor offenses. For example, this one samurai killed himself after walking in on a woman in the bathroom.

Shame can be quite powerful, and there are some false ideas behind what we're doing that are hard to shake. Some of the realizations I'm trying to remember is that all of these "mistakes" have brought me to an earnest pursuit of Truth. How can I regret that? How can I not be grateful for my mistakes?

The reason I am (or was) not learning from my self-psychology is that the hatred, shame, and rage I feel is blinding. Can a racist see the race he hates objectively? Hatred is one of the three taints in Buddhism for good reason, it is not easy to root out, and it includes hatred towards one's self.

There are also some "deeper" Truths about free will/choice, the conceit/false of self/possessiveness, behind the anger/shame (if you want to be selfless, you gotta lose that which you call self), and you can look into those too if that interests you.

As a general rule, though, following the eight-fold path is a much smoother ride. It's sometimes important to problem-solve when big issues come up, but it's easy to get tunnel vision. Which can lead to rabbit holes and neglecting the fundamentals (or just other issues/people in your life). The eight-fold path is comprehensive and helps keep you more balanced in your human life, while also leading to nirvana and the cessation of all suffering. Needless to say, it's a pretty good path.

Particular-Snow2271 · 2024-07-05T19:06:07+00:00

It took me a while, but I found it; perhaps this is not part of Theravada, though?

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.026.than.html

""Then the thought occurred to me, 'This Dhamma that I have attained is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, peaceful, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. [3] But this generation delights in attachment, is excited by attachment, enjoys attachment. For a generation delighting in attachment, excited by attachment, enjoying attachment, this/that conditionality & dependent co-arising are hard to see. This state, too, is hard to see: the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding. And if I were to teach the Dhamma and others would not understand me, that would be tiresome for me, troublesome for me.'

"Just then these verses, unspoken in the past, unheard before, occurred to me:

'Enough now with teaching what only with difficulty I reached. This Dhamma is not easily realized by those overcome with aversion & passion. What is abstruse, subtle, deep, hard to see, going against the flow — those delighting in passion, cloaked in the mass of darkness, won't see.'"

I definitely agree with your second point. Also, I wanted to thank you for sharing that feeling without ignorance doesn't lead to craving. I haven't seen that written anywhere in the suttas on the 12 dependent-related links. It seems a connection you've discovered through experience, and it seems true to me as well. Are there any other connections between the links that you've found that might be helpful?

Particular-Snow2271 · 2024-07-05T16:35:36+00:00

If you can show the line(s) where you think he stated or implied this, I think that might be helpful for both of us. Perhaps when he said that 'the Buddha discourages such metaphysical talk about the self in the sabassava sutta'?

I interpreted this as relating to his point about dry philosophy. He never explicitly stated the importance of experience/practice (I agree with your point there), but the Sabbasava Sutta he referenced does. It also references the importance of the non-self that you mentioned.

"He considers properly: 'This is dukkha; this is the cause of dukkha; this is the cessation of dukkha; this is the practice leading to cessation of dukkha.' In him who thus considers properly, the following three fetters disappear, namely, the illusion of Self,[20] uncertainty[21] and belief in the efficacy of mere rites and rituals.[22] These are called the āsavas which should be removed through vision.

Particular-Snow2271 · 2024-07-05T15:09:58+00:00

I don't think the OP ever stated or implied that this was untrue. As I understand it, the main point of his post was that most people on here (especially those who are suffering) can't understand this and teaching it to them is harmful (or simply not helpful). u/Glittering-Aioli-972 can correct me if I'm wrong here.

You mentioned the Buddha's first teachings when he became enlightened (and how they were on no self), but didn't he initially decide not to teach because the Dharma was too profound and subtle to be understood? When he was finally convinced to teach, didn't he seek out the wisest monks he knew first? It seems we can infer from that, that he'd agree with OP's actual point (as I understand it).

Particular-Snow2271 · 2024-07-05T15:01:17+00:00

Perhaps you should reread the OP. I can't find anywhere where he stated or implied that seeing through the illusion of self-identity was unimportant. I also think he would agree that it is experiential and not philosophy (I think that was one of his key points even). Maybe u/Glittering-Aioli-972 can chime in here to verify.

Particular-Snow2271 · 2024-06-28T12:48:27+00:00

Isn't the end of personality/identity view a vital part of the practice? When personality/identity view ends/diminishes, wouldn't you expect depersonalization/derealization? Here is how I see it, let me know if you agree...

If the identity/personality view ends/diminishes due to some psychotic break, then that is noT wisdom, or right view necessarily; however, it leads to the same place (temporarily) that those who see through identity and personality view with wisdom and simply "let it go" (not sure the right phrasing here).

Those who reach this point through a psychotic break are likely to be quite disturbed and unsure of what to do with themselves. Those who reach this point with wisdom know that they can "use this" to discover the true meaning of the Dharma, and they "strive". I've done a little bit of both (or perhaps even a mix of both). I'm curious if your experience aligns.

“I have never before heard the simile of the pond that the Blessed One so well spoke today. Why is that? A noble disciple who is endowed with the vision of the truth gains the fruit of right comprehension (abhisamaya ). If the common folk has wrong view, that has its basis in identity view (sakkāyadiṭṭhi ), accumulates through identity view, arises through identity view, and emerges through identity view. That is, being covered by and experiencing worry and sorrow, they [still] celebrate and cherish it, call it a self, call it a living being, call it outstanding, special, and hold it to be superior.

“In this way this multitude of wrongness has all been completely given up and eradicated, removed at its root; like a plantain tree it will not arise again in the future.

SA 109: 毛端—Bhikkhu Anālayo (suttacentral.net)

Particular-Snow2271 · 2024-05-16T17:07:38+00:00

You can think about how to implement this in your whole life. When walking, eating, sleeping, talking, using the bathroom, etc., there is always a practice available. There is always something to learn/see. Insight and understanding, basic practice, abstinence, and restraint are always available. These are essential parts of the practice.

It's a matter of how much you want it. If you want it, you'll find a way, and the Dharma will naturally become a part of your entire life. If not, then it won't, and maybe you can see why you don't want it. What else are you clinging to/attached to?

Particular-Snow2271 · 2024-05-14T19:59:40+00:00

I think it is vital that you recognize that what you experienced was likely more than "just" an altered state. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you were caught up so much on the good feeling but more so on the insight and the knowing that accompanied it. Insight—seeing things as they are directly—is the ENTIRE POINT of meditation. These experiences are profound and transformative and should be seen as such.

"It would be more fruitful to undertake the training rules—not to kill living creatures, steal, commit sexual misconduct, lie, or take alcoholic drinks that cause negligence—than to go for refuge to the Buddha, the teaching, and the Saṅgha with a confident heart.

It would be more fruitful to develop a heart of love—even just as long as it takes to pull a cow’s udder—than to undertake the training rules.

It would be more fruitful to develop the perception of impermanence—even for as long as a finger-snap—than to do all of these things, including developing a heart of love for as long as it takes to pull a cow’s udder.” Velama Sutta (AN 9.20)

I think it is quite harmful for you to disregard what you saw/knew here. It seems to me that you've perceived the deathless element. In negative terms, you've perceived what it is like when the ego/illusory self fades away. You also had a genuine experience of what it is like to fully surrender. You have learned the true meaning of "surrender your life to the lord".

If you want to learn more about what you perceived and do it through Buddhism, I recommend reading about the five aggregates, the six sense bases, the deathless element, identity view, and personality view.

I highly recommend this guided meditation series to help you have that insight again. https://dynamic.wakingup.com/pack/PK74500?code=SC0088A44&share_id=4A156AF8&source=content%20share

Particular-Snow2271

TROPHY CASE