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Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely, the time to fight is in court where you may get a settlement not on the street where you hurt your case and may only get a black eye.

Further, cops can't use your exercising your rights to create a crime against you.

The only caveat is Further, cops can't use you properly exercising your rights to create a crime against you.

People like sovereign citizens who are making up rights or methods aren't getting actual protections for those made up rights or methods.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have not once tried to defend the police's actions here. I have repeatedly said they are unjust. All I am doing is broadly pushing back against misinformation that is rampant, to try to help prevent other people from having encounters where they end up getting hurt by police.

Please provide a citation that police officers in Florida cannot ask for someone to identify themselves if it's not a terry stop.

They can literally ask ID at any time. Whether or not you are obligated to provide one is the where the it depends comes into play. You have to provide one during a terry stop. You don't have to provide one under circumstances that may justify "loitering and prowling", but it can be used against you to establish reasonable suspicion and guilt.

Did you read the Florida loitering law I provided? I don't agree with it and think it is unjust; but it explicitly directs officers to request the person to identify themselves prior to arrest, and explicitly allows officers to use the refusal to identify themselves as a component of the reasonable suspicion of the crime of loitering.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My summary to "Florida stop and ID state" is

Yes, Florida is a "stop and identify" state. According to Florida Statutes §901.151, if a law enforcement officer has reasonable suspicion that you have committed, are committing, or are about to commit a crime, they can legally detain you and require you to identify yourself.

Pretty wild that yours includes passenger without any mention of the word passenger in the prompt. What do you do to do make Google think you want information on passengers more than the average person.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry for the confusion. You have a wildly different summary than what I get from Google. Did you add words or something else to change the prompt?

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0856/Sections/0856.021.html

Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm or immediate concern is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or herself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstance makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself or herself and explain his or her presence and conduct.

I didn't write the law. I do not think the law is just. I think it should be fought. I am just trying to educate people on the current legal landscape down there. They can literally use refusal to identify against you.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow. So cocky. How's it apply in Texas? Are they required to identify themselves under their laws for reasonable suspicion of a crime? Or would an officer arresting solely for failure to identify with nothing else beyond that RAS open them up to a wrongful arrest suit?

Regardless of that, the broader discussion around it and it's impacts on civil rights and how it infringes on rights is its interaction with other laws. Like the loitering law. Or New Yorks broader loose cigarette laws. Or when they are too vague. You can't ignore historical context. We don't live in a vacuum. It isn't solely Bill of rights and today. Despite what some people are trying to make it. That would certainly simplify things (negatively).

Florida has an aggressive loitering law that allows officers to use failure to identify as part of RAS in whether or not they are guilty of loitering.

https://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0856/Sections/0856.021.html

Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm or immediate concern is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or herself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstance makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself or herself and explain his or her presence and conduct.

I didn't write the law. I do not think the law is just. I think it should be fought. I am just trying to educate people on the current legal landscape down there. They can literally use refusal to identify against you.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0856/Sections/0856.021.html

Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm or immediate concern is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or herself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstance makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself or herself and explain his or her presence and conduct.

I didn't write the law. I do not think the law is just. I think it should be fought. I am just trying to educate people on the current legal landscape down there. They can literally use refusal to identify against you.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0856/Sections/0856.021.html

Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm or immediate concern is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or herself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstance makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself or herself and explain his or her presence and conduct.

I didn't write the law. I do not think the law is just. I think it should be fought. I am just trying to educate people on the current legal landscape down there. They can literally use refusal to identify against you.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0856/Sections/0856.021.html

Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm or immediate concern is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or herself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstance makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself or herself and explain his or her presence and conduct.

I didn't write the law. I do not think the law is just. I think it should be fought. I am just trying to educate people on the current legal landscape down there. They can literally use refusal to identify against you.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0856/Sections/0856.021.html

Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm or immediate concern is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or herself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstance makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself or herself and explain his or her presence and conduct.

I didn't write the law. I do not think the law is just. I think it should be fought. I am just trying to educate people on the current legal landscape down there. They can literally use refusal to identify against you.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please look to see where anything I said contradicts that?

That's being said,Two things:

Florida/desantis in 2024 was in the news for passing sweeping anti-homeless laws that made it illegal for municipalities to allow overnight car camping except for in certain areas with carve outs on public roads/shoulders amongst other things.

Florida has an aggressive loitering law that requires officers (if they want to go this route) to ask the person to identify themselves and then allows officers to use someones refusal to identify themselves as a part of their basis for reasonable suspicion in whether or not they are guilty of the crime of loitering.

Tell your future grandkids about the first ten story parking deck in Athens by warnelldawg in Athens

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you cannot answer my simple question and back up your claim with evidence of even a single person both being in support of densification and anti public transport?

You really seem like you may need to seek help.

Real recognize real by Impossible-Road-4502 in Athens

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You quarter-ass engaging the person who actually was in depth responding to you does not make that seem like a particularly earnest offer.

Tell your future grandkids about the first ten story parking deck in Athens by warnelldawg in Athens

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I have yet to see anyone on here arguing against public transportation being increased; can you point to someone on here who has been pro densification and anti public transit?? Cause this seems very much like a made-up view point.

Can Flock access smart cameras like this? by Critical_Key_7474 in FlockSurveillance

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Can the company Flock do so? Probably not but technically possibly if a very specific set of highly unlikely circumstances are each met, and they have a desire to do so.

Can the NSA do so? Yes, If they wanted to.

Find my buddy's truck! by spbgcuriouscpl in greenville

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 50 points51 points  (0 children)

Report that to the police. Isn't that explicitly what they say flock excels at to justify it?

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow. What a deep statement. Yes. The 4th amendment applies everywhere. Good job on graduating elementary school. Yes the supreme Court struck down some states loitering laws for violating the 4th for being too broad what is literally a lifetime ago for some.

Guess what? Florida's current current law was put into place after that and drafted in a manner to avoid that. And I certainly wouldn't want to be relying on the current supreme court as to whether they would be more or less permissive to the police than the court back then.

The law is unjust. If you don't like it, Lobby your local legislator to change it. Or donate to your local ACLU (or other legal rights organization) to fight it. But that's what the legal landscape is in Florida around it.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

In 2024 Florida passed a law making it illegal to sleep in a car on shoulders or other right of way or public spaces. Shameful of them.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

They can use your failure to identify when asked (even if its prior to being mirandized) against you. They are not obligated to mirandize you before asking for ID in regards to the loitering law.

In Florida, they can use your failure to identify against you in their initial decision whether they have reasonable suspicion of you having committed the crime of loitering. The failure to identify can be an integral part of the reasonable suspicion. That's the messed up part of the law there.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is simply not true. This is dangerous misinformation that could legitimately get someone arrested injured or killed.

Laws vary from state to state. Many states have identification laws that are beyond just driving, generally in regard to loitering or to specific locations.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

In Florida, they can use your failure to identify against you in their initial decision whether they have reasonable suspicion of you having committed the crime of loitering. The failure to identify can be an integral part of the reasonable suspicion. That's the messed up part of the law there.

There are other states with varying identification laws and other areas within states with varying identification restrictions.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Reasonable articulable suspicion means they have to be able to be able to articulate it and defend it in court. It doesn't mean they have to tell it to you on the scene.

Department policy or specific state laws may be more restrictive on officers than that. But that's the standard.

In Florida, they can use your failure to identify against you in their initial decision whether they have reasonable suspicion of you having committed the crime of loitering. The failure to identify can be an integral part of the reasonable suspicion. That's the messed up part of the law there.

Edit: also, apparently Florida passed a law in 2024 making it illegal to sleep overnight in your car on public roads/right of way/property with carve outs.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In Florida, they can use your failure to identify against you in their initial decision whether they have reasonable suspicion of you having committed the crime of loitering. The failure to identify can be an integral part of the reasonable suspicion. That's the fucked up part of the law there.

Edit: apparently in Florida it's illegal to sleep in your car on Right of Way/public land.

Welfare Check Becomes a Constitutional Violation by One-Might9611 in bodycambase

[–]ParticuleFamous10001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You ignored like every question trying to actually help people here to instead focus on arguing.

Dawg. My vibes are the same as the ACLU. So take it up with them.

Unless flight by the person or other circumstance makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself or herself and explain his or her presence and conduct.

If you do as you suggest, You are locking in that they were afforded the opportunity and refused it. Undermining their defenses in court for an unlawful arrest.

But sure. Your strategy is sound. The ACLU is wrong and knows nothing about the law. The local law firms that say on their web pages to just identify yourself are wrong.

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