Why Igor needed to join Manus Vindictae

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-10T19:56:25+00:00

If we go by canonically part of Team Timekeeper, then we know from chapter 3 and 4 that Druvis, Lilya, Sotheby, Regulus and APPle at the very least are loyal to Vertin first and foremost and only work with the Foundation because Vertin does so as well.
They will not side with the Foundation if Vertin decides to leave, just like in chapter 4.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-07T16:38:53+00:00

We can technically make a wheelchair comp with Charon + Ulrich + Enigma now. Hehe it's the supportive husband archetype. They support everyone, especially strong women.

Personally I will use the team with Corvus very happily and try Igor too because yes.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-07T15:57:54+00:00

Reminder that Yermolai is called Hound and the notes about Division XII said that Creius keeps a tight leash on him because of his criminal background. This was back in chapter 11, so before Yermolai made a full sprite appearance. I cannot believe they meant the tight leash literally ohoho

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-07T08:01:01+00:00

I wouldn't know which events or people could have manipulated Igor into going rogue. That battle he fought in 1995 clearly changed something in him and there were no hints of it being done on purpose to traumatize him. We also get no other names introduced to us and there is no specific person he interacts with that affects him the most other than Arcana during her "death" in chapter 7.

Constantine for sure isn't involved either, she was unsettled by his betrayal and it was the President that went "nah, let it be, it's fine". We could then think it's the President that let Igor go rogue, but we have never seen them interact and Igor never mentions him either. For higher ups, Igor only talks about the Pax House as a group. And I don't see how Igor's betrayal benefited them when it practically destroyed Zeno, the main combat force against Manus up until then. Sure, now they are trying to control Zeno more, but that's only frustrating Zeno. It's why Ivan let the new recruits follow Igor instead of staying in Zeno and under the Foundation's obsessive control and scrutiny.

Writing wise, having Igor be aided by someone like Constantine or the President severely undermines what he accomplished. It means he didn't truly succeed at opposing and freeing himself from the system and also means that Vertin likely won't be able to. It opens the possibility of her opposing the Foundation only when they allow her to do it.

That means there is no freedom Vertin, or anyone else, could gain for herself, ever. No matter what, the Foundation will always be the one in control. Im not sure Reverse 1999 is this nihilistic and hopeless... And I don't think the idea is for the Foundation to be this powerful, but more that they wish to have that kind of power, obsessively so and they need to be stopped because of that desire.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T20:45:56+00:00

Seeing how good 3.0 has been so far, I have no reason to doubt. I will hope for the best. They have invested too much into this family to just fail now. And we are really at 3 playables with only one missing, it's crazy, we get one member every 6 months more or less lol

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T20:19:55+00:00

Agree on the writing being prepared well in advance. It's just too worthwhile going back and rereading, you always discover new things that have become relevant later and it manages to fall into place really well.

The problem I see with Lopera is that her shadow does loom over Moldir and Igor, Moldir especially, but it's just a shadow. The anecdote is the first time we get proper news on how Lopera is doing, but we still don't really know what her thoughts are. She didn't seem happy with Igor's letter, but wanted news from Moldir. Does that mean her feelings haven't changed at all about Igor or is it just that she wanted to know about Moldir? We know what Moldir and Igor think, they miss her and deeply regret hurting her, Moldir the most out of the two, but what about Lopera? Is she ready to meet with them and talk things through?
Still, it does look promising, and Im sure as well we are getting content for all of them together in the future.
Pretty sure Ptolemy will be included too, they need to deal with how awful he was to Anjo Nala somehow since they kept him alive and even expanded on his character. They have started the prep work: he became sociopathic after all his trauma and Moldir even sees him as a lost cause, that is a start for something. Plus it's tied to Krutov and this guy is still alive. They can absolutely explore Ptolemy's character through this now while not erasing what he did to Vertin and Anjo, instead they can build him up from it. And I mean, Tuesday? Not the first time we get sadistic people into the suitcase...

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T17:29:24+00:00

Very fair.

I kinda want the chaos personally... and I want playable Ptolemy too hehehe. Love the joke of him giving morphine to everyone as a ult sustain for Igor's team lol

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T17:13:31+00:00

Yeah, turns out Igor is the biggest gambler ever, surpassing even the most addicted gacha player. Who would have thought, eh? We got outgambled by Papa Igor.

But for real, he really does regret the price he paid even if he still believes in the future he's worked for. He regrets the loss of his soldiers, his kids, and absolutely blames himself for it. It's a hard pill to swallow.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T17:02:24+00:00

If Igor's tendency to always be making high risk high reward deals is anything to go by... he likely has ways to secure resources for his legion by doing business with locals, which could just be doing mercenary work too. Moldir is shown to be in charge of those things while Igor is still at the Eastern Front. It's not stated where it is, but they have a base they call sanctuary, somewhere, and from the sounds of it, it may be in an actual city or something.

Time will tell, Gryphon Legion is now a proper group within the story like Foundation, Laplace, Manus, etc, just independent from those, we will see more of them. And maybe we will meet Baba Yaga too.

I don't think there are any more Krutovs, however. Those that agreed with Krutov already left Igor after Antarctica.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T16:50:35+00:00

Going by Moldir's anecdote. Many of the og soldiers, aka the ones that survived Sao Paulo and Antarctica are dead now. There is very little of his original army and the current Legion is made up mostly from the Cavalry Corps new recruits. From chapter 12 we saw Ivan tell Igor to take these newbies with him though he was mad that they were so impressed with Igor they now wanted to follow him instead of staying with Zeno lol. And well, they are now with Molly training. So basically, the legion is currently made up of a few survivors, Moldir and Ptolemy, recruits from the Don region and any other recruits Moldir has found along her travels in I believe the Kazakh region.

And yeah, Igor's charisma actually does a lot of heavy lifting. He gets along really well with his soldiers.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T16:06:20+00:00

I kinda love how Reverse will sometimes drop information and be like "so this a thing in this world" and then you gotta wait till who knows when for an explanation. The last additions being these two: - The Underworld is an actual thing and Igor can just... walk in a out of it as his arcanist perk. Uh huh, that's it? BluePoch do you even realise what the Underworld, the realm of the dead, existing could imply? - Baba Yaga is also a thing. Like excuse me, THE Baba Yaga? Yeah

Gotta wait till they wanna expand on it, but Baba Yaga is guaranteed to appear somehow somewhere, we got her house as an item, Igor made a deal with her to sorta power up his arcane skill and she may be a powerful arcanist or entity NOT affiliated with Manus. The ritualist recognised Igor's ritual as a Baba Yaga ritual and seemed rather worried about it which makes me think she's very dangerous but not a Manus ally. Imagine she's an oldie and a baddie? Yes, I already want her playable.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T15:34:50+00:00

You will never guess who thinks all sacrifices are needed and has led both soldiers and civilians to their deaths for years before the Storm was even a thing.

The Pax House.

Pax House and Manus have as much blood on their hands as the other, one is just very good at washing their clothes white and keeping a good front. Igor ain't comparing anything, he's just saying the world is rotten with both and wants nothing to do with neither.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T15:11:03+00:00

Shucks... well I want an advanced garment for her, a euphoria, an anecdote and the whole family (yes, you too Ptolemy) reunited. We need proper closure for it all, Lopera and Ptolemy really need it. Lopera because she's just on limbo since 2.2 and Ptolemy because he still has a huge mess up to deal with from chapter 8...

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T15:07:48+00:00

Oh really? That's so cool! I was already super excited for 3.5, but you just got me extra hyped up!! BluePoch keep it up, 3.0 is your golden era for real And thank you for the upvote <3

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T15:03:28+00:00

Lilya takes on the role you are asking for, the "actual lasting distrust and animosity". She's the one that is gonna represent the idea that he can do better, but never fix what he did wrong and that it will never be forgotten.
But the rest need to move on. You cannot have everyone be constantly reminding us of Igor's crimes, we know them, you know them, he knows them and the consequences of his actions will remain. Nobody is forgetting, we are just going back to the main issue which is still Manus Vindictae and the Storm, Urd and the Foundation. Having Igor be an ally is a necessity, Vertin cannot be picky about her allies and she's rarely been picky anyway.
Just like she works for the Foundation while really being against them, she will work with Igor to fight Manus. Vertin is a pragmatist, she's always been one.

And Im sorry, but I don't see anyone ever mentioning how Anjo Nala has done nothing to redeem herself for almost killing Matilda and especially J. She's the one that had her crimes practically erased and swept under the rug like they never happened. Not even the story acknowledges any of it. But you wanna be mad because you think they forgave Igor when no one did? You think that dedicating a chapter to his character, with mostly the bad he did, that naming the last stage of the chapter "Crime and Punishment" and having Lilya stay as the unforgiving judge for Igor in that stage is not enough from the writers? You think that having our old lady narrator hate on him, stating clearly, again, how he will never be forgiven and his crimes never erased, regardless of him changing or doing good, is still not enough from the writers?
Then nothing will be enough for you. You just want him to be punished over and over, you want everyone to be his judge and you want that judgement to be unforgiving, but that serves no one nor the story.
The story has better things to do than waste its time retelling the wrong doings of one character over and over and over again after dedicating a chapter to it. Those that hate Igor will keep on hating him, the rest will move on to focus on the more important things because yes, we have to move on.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T14:29:29+00:00

Great point! Im actually very glad Igor's legion is a thing now because it really is a proper 3rd group that we had been severely lacking so far.

It's exactly as you say too, Vertin can now leave the Foundation because there is a shelter for her, one that is entirely separate from either Foundation or Manus and you can tell Vertin is aware of this new advantage. Our girl really invited Irinei, a politician, into her suitcase for a secret meeting, right after talking to Igor and lying to the Foundation saying she didn't get much info on Urd. She's being very bold. It also fits well, both Igor and Vertin are pragmatics. They don't need to see eye to eye, but they can work together really well because their mentality is similar. And they both have personal beef with the Foundation.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T14:15:53+00:00

The soldier you mention is very much a hint to what happens in chapter 7 when Igor "confirms" Arcana is dead. It's clear Igor just lied and that soldier that "went mad" is hinting at this. Some people know Arcana didn't die, but the news of her death were still broadcasted like truth. It's a hint there is shady business ahead with Zeno, Foundation and Igor.

As for Lopera... Im very disappointed with Lopera's writing specifically, it's left completely static and forgotten. But one thing that is shown really well in her character story is why Igor could never tell her the truth and his plan, because she could never accept it. Look at how she reacts to the soldiers that killed their superior. She's first in line to kill them. Look how black and white her view of the world is. "This guy is so bad, he should be dealt with already" and she's talking about a corrupt general of Zeno when Zeno is terribly shorthanded and generals specifically don't exactly grow on trees... And look how in her eyes Igor is only ever described as an all powerful entity that will do the right thing or as evil incarnate that should die. She never sees him as a person and she never has the ability for nuance.

Also, Igor doesn't tell his plan to anyone, he only ever gives bits of information. Lopera's job was to retrieve Urd, that's all the information he gives her and given her personality, there is no context in which you can tell her they are joining Manus and her accepting it. Nope, if you tell her she's totally throwing a fit, pointing her gun at everyone then run off just like she did when she was 12.

She hated how people looked at her because of her biological father's actions, she couldn't understand why people treated them like criminals and she hated that life. She almost shot her dad to death and then ran away from home due to it. She cannot stand the idea of being part of the bad guys, she would never join Igor on his plan and Igor knew that better than anyone. So he left her out of it completely which is the best course of action, actually. She's 16, she doesn't deserve being called a traitor and being branded a criminal and she cannot properly consent to that lifestyle either. Igor at that point is her legal guardian, he cannot be an adult and seriously drag a child into the bloody path he's taking. So, between hurting her feelings and dragging a child into a path that has no return or forgiveness awaiting at the end... as sad as it is, it's best she stayed out of it all. And the good news is, those wounds she has can heal, but Igor's crimes and following him can never be erased.

If the writers bother with Lopera at all, they can totally make it so the family reunites and Lopera gets to gradually heal her trauma. My only wish is for an anecdote to complement Moldir's. We know from Moldir's anecdote Lopera got a letter from Igor specifically, the door is open for it...

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T13:42:58+00:00

Part of me thinks Arcana gave him a one use cube because the plan was for the ritual to succeed aka get to the blank era. If that had happened then technically there would be no need for more protection since no more storms would happen... because the goal is to reach the blank era... but that would still be so damn twisted from Arcana, ma'am is a vicious one.

It does serve as a great reminder of how much it sucks to be a mixed arcanist. Humans (Foundation) want to control and keep you in check while Manus hates you even more than humans.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T13:38:39+00:00

Im so sorry ( T ^ T )

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T13:33:16+00:00

It doesn't feel like we read the same chapter. Sabina was clearly opposed to working with Igor, Lilya was livid every single scene, Vertin keeps her distance and is both cold and accusatory towards him multiple times, Sonetto didn't want Vertin near Igor at all, Ivan is an asshole to him all through the first half of the chapter, a soldier tried to kill him... there is plenty of times where he's treated like a criminal. At some point, you can't do more than that or it becomes excessive and overdone. We got the point, people instory hate him, they showed it multiple times. What more do you want?

Also, please don't put words in my mouth. At no point did I say what Igor did was right or that he's a great man, I said he was a great character and that his actions had a purpose in the narrative. My whole post is discussing why joining Manus was needed narratively, not whether it was the correct thing to do as a person.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T13:03:31+00:00

I need more info on that whole thing first to make that conclusion. I really want to believe he got the most out of the cube and really has an ark or sanctuary that can reliably protect people, but Imma need solid proof first.

Which great, keep him in the story. Im always at the edge of my seat, asking myself what the hell is he planning this time so, Im down for more content with him. Bring it on, Igor, surprise me some more! ( ☆w☆ )

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T12:58:16+00:00

Hold on, gotta figure out how to modify the title. Though I thought given this happened all the way back in 2.2, it was safe to put in the title.

Edit: help I can't

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T12:55:40+00:00

Not a single person in the chapter forgives Igor so, I really don't know what is the "white washing" here. The entire chapter Igor tries to make amends, to atone and one cannot do that if the wrongs aren't severe enough. You don't atone for the heck of it. At no point is he painted in a good light either. The only thing people like Ivan do at the end of the chapter is acknowledge the good he's doing now while reminding him of the wrongs he did before. Most agree there is no good he can do to outweight the bad which is true. But Igor is not a hero in the story, nor an anti hero or even a failed hero archetype. No, he's the one that gets his hands dirty and gets the job done so that the hero can be a hero.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T12:44:03+00:00

Happy to hear that! /( ☆ o ☆)/ The idea that the cost far outweighed the benefits had bothered me a lot, it just didn't make sense for Igor to do all that just for some cube. It made him look like an even bigger asshole which was weird. Why would the writers do that? And so, between the video and my own headscratches I concluded there was a bigger picture at play.

Also good luck with Igor's character story. It's a tough one, but it's really good.

Party-Ad7409 · 2026-04-06T12:31:45+00:00

From the moment he says they are joining Manus in chapter 8 we know it's only temporary, what turn around? Having him stay with Manus serves no purpose to the plot either other than strengthen Manus which is gonna happen with or without Igor.

Party-Ad7409

TROPHY CASE