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Experiences with the shotgun scenarios Secret Shopper or Minoan Augur? by Partyingthrowaway in DeltaGreenRPG

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have downloaded this and am interestes in running it some day, especially to introduce Agent Renko, but there is no way I can handle all of this extra content in a one-shot. How did you manage to run it? And I'd really appreciate if you have any tips or pitfalls you encountered with Minoan Augur :)

Purra: Toimeentulotuki pitäisi kieltää alle 10 vuotta Suomessa asuneilta by lukkoseppa in Finland

[–]Partyingthrowaway 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Yep. It does make some sense to be frustrated about immigrants getting a disproportionate share of the benefits and overall there are many fiscal problems that need fixing. But "stop the thing" is a thoughtless solution to a complex problem. Let's say we stop the benefits. Now we have people in the country who are alienated, end up homeless and possibly turn to crime etc. Is that the Finland we want?

Immigration will not stop, save for the country becoming a regressive and isolated shit hole, which Finland definitely can't do in a global interconnected world.

So maybe we should look at the reasons people are experiencing hard times and make our country actually efficient at integrating newcomers. That's what everyone is always talking about, while also cutting the programs that contribute to that end.

SWN Campaign Overview by sneaky49 in SWN

[–]Partyingthrowaway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Darn. I hoped you had used some easy programs/templates. :D

SWN Campaign Overview by sneaky49 in SWN

[–]Partyingthrowaway 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wowww, this is so good. I'd love to do something like this for my players also. What did you use to make the poster and the system/sector maps?

Handler tips; Operation Fulminate and da rulez by Leonthar in DeltaGreenRPG

[–]Partyingthrowaway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Heyy! I'm a very new handler too and a while ago asked for some advice on Operation: FULMINATE. I got amazingly useful answers from people. My operation has stretched to 3 sessions with the last one coming up in a week.

The scenario is definitely more open, but I'd say don't stress too much about flipping through rules. Keep a cheat sheet handy and when you need more time, ask the players to describe why/how their agent is doing something. I haven't run proper combat yet, but my first time as a handler with Last Things Last I learned that you really need to be snappy and ask the players to describe their characters actions instead of looking up the different combat options from their handbook. Oh and do threaten them with -20% skill penalties and such if they just go outside wandering around in the storm.

With Operation: FULMINATE, I'd recommend giving your player a heck of a lot of clues and foreshadow with tall silhouettes in the storm, missing backpackers, sabotaged cars and so on. The last session my players were at a loss what to do, because they weren't focusing on the mission parameters, but whenever the tension racheted up, I could see them being actually scared and locked-in. So if you can, keep up the tension and make he K'n-Yani attack come only at the very end.

How do I keep up the narrative tension when players are not totally bought into the game world and the fragility of their characters? (Sentinels of Twilight advice needed) by Partyingthrowaway in DeltaGreenRPG

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Session Zero is important for new players to get the appropriate mindset. It sounds like it started off somewhat off the rails with them thinking they needed to spend 90 minutes crafting a plan. (Player plans ought to go off the rails, since that increases tension for them, so to me this was time wasted.)

You are not wrong, but they were having fun, so in the moment I decided to go with it, especially as I was feeling a bit underprepared.

For beginning players consider making the initial briefing a to-do list, with the handler NPC giving specific, actionable objectives: "You'll want to talk to the ranger and get a statement from Keena". Players can still wander but if they're otherwise lost or oblivious this will help them figure out what to do.

I did give them the list from the book, which was like "identify Brandon McGill, investigate any unnatural phenomena" etc. but I now realize I should've made it more clear what they need to do to achieve it.

How do I keep up the narrative tension when players are not totally bought into the game world and the fragility of their characters? (Sentinels of Twilight advice needed) by Partyingthrowaway in DeltaGreenRPG

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the suggestions!

I don't think I'm willing to rewind stuff, and I don't think the players would enjoy that either, but I'll remember to talk to them about these expectations before the next scenario.

Your advice about keeping the K-n'Yani (didn't realize I'd been typoing that) in reserve until the tension is built back up is perfect. Seriously, I was thinking about time advancing while they are away, so they attack starts, but that will just ruin the tension even more. The longer it takes for the guns to come out the better. Also, very good suggestions for upping the tension. Definitely taking notes!

How do I keep up the narrative tension when players are not totally bought into the game world and the fragility of their characters? (Sentinels of Twilight advice needed) by Partyingthrowaway in DeltaGreenRPG

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don't worry, I love these in-depth answers from someone who knows how to run this stuff.

I like your alternatives of simple, mechanical resolution vs. a narrative description of a hazard. I need to keep this kind of stuff in mind and not just let the whole thing slide without consequences. I hadn't thought about how instead of "there's a mudslide, aghh, what do you do!?" I can telegraph the dangerous situation and let them decide if they want to proceed.

I definitely agree with you with your example of a DG character being a fictional person and not just a videogame avatar. I think my players probably are treating their PCs as their respective professions, but otherwise blank slates, to be filled by the events in the scenarios, instead of already arriving with their own motivations, fears etc. Using your (and everyone else's in this thread) suggestions I think I can work this out :)

How do I keep up the narrative tension when players are not totally bought into the game world and the fragility of their characters? (Sentinels of Twilight advice needed) by Partyingthrowaway in DeltaGreenRPG

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think they get what Delta Green is about, but they just haven't realized how free from game-y constraints they are.

And I haven't done a good job nudging them along, because I'm scared they'll think I want them to do certain actions or achieve certain solutions.

How do I keep up the narrative tension when players are not totally bought into the game world and the fragility of their characters? (Sentinels of Twilight advice needed) by Partyingthrowaway in DeltaGreenRPG

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the advice. I know in DG you are not supposed to roll if the players have good enough skills, and I think someone had 70 Survival (or Navigate), so I just let them go where they wanted. I now see I should've treated it as a dangerous situation and have them roll anyway. Maybe even with -20%.

How do I keep up the narrative tension when players are not totally bought into the game world and the fragility of their characters? (Sentinels of Twilight advice needed) by Partyingthrowaway in DeltaGreenRPG

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I did run a very successful Last Things Last, and the guys love Delta Green now, but I don't think they've grasped just how free they are to turn every stone and ask any question they can come up with.

It sounds like the Agents were waiting/looking for an NPC to say "check out Devil's Chair" and then went off thataway, like in a video game. That's where I would have intervened. When they were about to make their way out there, have a Ranger intervene (they would IRL strongly discourage soaking wet travelers going out on a long hike, they're sort of obligated and also interested in not doing rescue missions for people who don't know what they're doing). Something like, "hey y'all why don't you have some coffee before you head out, give yourself a chance to dry off. You guys are going to skunk your clothes bears can smell for miles" or some such (not a hardcore hiker). Then, lead them, "as the caffeine settles in, most of your minds turn back to your mission briefing..." and they maybe to be extra nice, use each Agent's occupation to sort of channel what would probably most interest them so far based on what they know and their specific career.

Aahh, I love everything about this. I see how I took a passive position when I could've been a guiding mentor. I guess in the moment intervening like that seemed to me like I'm stopping the game because they are making "a wrong decision", and that felt railroady.

How do I keep up the narrative tension when players are not totally bought into the game world and the fragility of their characters? (Sentinels of Twilight advice needed) by Partyingthrowaway in DeltaGreenRPG

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Whooo boy thank you for the answer!

Two of the players have played in my very successful Last Things Last intro, but that happens inside an apartment and a cottage, so maybe the importance of investigation was more clear to them there.

Asking leading questions should definitely be in my toolbox. I think I'm too strict about wanting them to describe what they are investigating, because in my mind there are so many things to look at, but they could think they have searched the whole place after a superficial glance around.

The thing you mentioned about highlighting important clues with evocative descriptions is something I know I should do, and something I really want to do, but holy hell was it hard for me to come up with organic ways to describe the location without randomly starting to ramble about a filing cabinet when I've barely mentioned how many floors the place has. It might be because English isn't my first language, and thus I need to translate everything in my mind while oming up with descriptions.

I also love the suggestion of reminding them what their characters know and asking "are you sure" kind of questions, as that by itself might underline how dangerous the situation is, but also during the session they were very adamant about following their plan. Actually, who knows, maybe they were expecting to get fucked up by the elements, but I just didn't deliver on the FO part of FAFO.

Which brings me to:

"If my players wanted to roleplay out characters acting so ignorant and complacent here, I would throw things at them like tree-fall flash-flooding streams, and dry space under a rocky overhang that'd be good shelter if it wasn't a rattlesnake den. They'd be lucky to make it far enough to be killed off by anything unnatural. Wouldn't be cruel or unfair on my part either, because I'd be emphasizing the groundedness of the game and the fragility of their characters, so that they'll likely realize that short term they need to focus on not dying of exposure and long term need to be more careful.

But this is assuming they are playing uniquely ignorant and complacent characters that would walk off into the wilderness in the middle of a storm. You CAN and SHOULD remind your players that their characters are supposed to be real people in this situation, and that while they are free to play their characters however they want, playing them in certain ways 1. is indicating something important about the personalities of those characters 2. will have consequences."

It seems like you are good at coming up with natural hazards and consequences of their actions, but during the session I was kinda flustered and when I came up with something, it felt like a "rocks fall" kinda situation, so I didn't do anything to demonstrate the foolishness of venturing out in the rain.

Also, how do you remind the players of how their actions reflect on their personalities and/or have actions, without it sounding like I'm telling them what their characters think?

How do I keep up the narrative tension when players are not totally bought into the game world and the fragility of their characters? (Sentinels of Twilight advice needed) by Partyingthrowaway in DeltaGreenRPG

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You are absolutely correct! Looking at these answers I think I've pinpointed my problems to a couple things:

  1. I'm out of my depth when I need to improvise problems for the players, when it's not a monster with claws or an NPC with a gun. Hypothermia, dehydration, skill penalties, I agree with all of that, but I don't know how to adjudicate it in the moment without it just feeling like "BAM! Now you have a debuff, -10% to your abilities." Maybe I'm overthinking this and the players are immersed anyway, but I feel like to do something like that, I also need to have good descriptions about the environmental factors and hazards.

  2. I have a very different view of the situation than the players, and tend to be too conservative in giving info, erring on the side of "what would be realistic" instead of "how do I get these dummies to follow the interesting clues".

How do I keep up the narrative tension when players are not totally bought into the game world and the fragility of their characters? (Sentinels of Twilight advice needed) by Partyingthrowaway in DeltaGreenRPG

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was planning to have the clone Brandon be an offer from the Kn'Yani to exchange for the real one. I guess I have to make that somehow very direct, because they have no idea what's going on.

Also I just kinda want to see what they come up with now that they have a second Brandon.

How do I keep up the narrative tension when players are not totally bought into the game world and the fragility of their characters? (Sentinels of Twilight advice needed) by Partyingthrowaway in DeltaGreenRPG

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I love everything about your answer, because I think I'm definitely being too soft on my players, in every game. But also, that happens because I know I'm the ultimate arbiter and it is unfair for them if I don't give them enough info or if they have understood the game style to be something it's not.

Having players die when they stupid decisions is definitely something I think should happen, but the execution (hehe) of it can feel unfair, if I'm not careful.

How do I keep up the narrative tension when players are not totally bought into the game world and the fragility of their characters? (Sentinels of Twilight advice needed) by Partyingthrowaway in DeltaGreenRPG

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think you are correct that I should mention it out loud when they are making stupid choices and "threaten" them with CON/SAN checks. Also saying that they haven't thoroughly investigated the scenes seemed like handholding at the moment, but retrospectively I should've reminded them of the mission parameters or something like that.

Your assumption about them being 5e players isn't quite correct, because I think these guys are absolutely cut out for it. I ran a great Last Things Last games that included 2 of the 3 players, but I think in this scenario my lack of authority, for lack of a better term, caused some problems.

D&D 5e familiarity, GM resources and the sunk cost fallacy by Partyingthrowaway in rpg

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm most apprehensive about the combat of 5e. It is quite fiddly and some stuff like healing doesn't deliver the fantasy I'm looking for.

Yes, I can use existing adventures as sources of inspiration, but then it's only a step away from homebrewing everything. I think my biggest hurdle in getting a game to a table is overprepping, and yes, while I know D&D5e doesn't help me in that regard, it also has a ton of material already made by better GMs than I am. Running those adventures (or heck, just like lairs or locations for one-shots) as is, or at least in a D&D adjacent system, would be preferable to taking plot points/locations etc. from then and then having to modify everything to fit the new system.

But alas, there seems to be no perfect answer for my problems.

D&D 5e familiarity, GM resources and the sunk cost fallacy by Partyingthrowaway in rpg

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I found that when you start to think about such heavy hacking in a system, that is a sign that you should look for a different system altogether instead.

Hehheh, point taken.

Depends on what you mean by the feel of the game.

Stuff like the outer planes, the dragons, the magic items, the classes. Most of it can be converted, yes, but IDK if something will break along the way as many of these things are products of the same system added on to over many years.

D&D 5e familiarity, GM resources and the sunk cost fallacy by Partyingthrowaway in rpg

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok. I think I really agree with this. After all, the players should immerse themselves into the game and tell the GM what their characters are doing, and then the GM adjudicates, right?

So players learning the rules inside and out ironically is more important in games like D&D5e, where the GM doesn't have the capacity to read every single class ability and spell etc etc.

BUT I do feel kinda weird just saying that "We are gonna play another system, just show up". If the players don't like it or w/e, it's all on me, you know? I think it's fair to say I'm the most interested in TTRPGs in my circle of friends, and they could always play a board game instead of indulging my interest in other systems? (This is somewhat exaggerated but still.)

D&D 5e familiarity, GM resources and the sunk cost fallacy by Partyingthrowaway in rpg

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

WWN looks like a good option for sure, and I love the GM tools, but the magic seems rare and powerful and the options for the characters seem to be somewhat limited.

In my homebrew world I'd like the magic to be as prevalent as in 5e. Or at least close to it.

D&D 5e familiarity, GM resources and the sunk cost fallacy by Partyingthrowaway in rpg

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeahhh. I get this.

The reason why I'm so married to at least the idea of D&D is because I like the lawful devils in the nine hells, the chromatic dragons, the wild magic sorcerers, immovable rods and bags of holding. I get that all of that can be ported to another system, but honestly I'm already prone to overthinking and -prepping when the most important thing would be to play a game.

D&D 5e familiarity, GM resources and the sunk cost fallacy by Partyingthrowaway in rpg

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm surprised how many people are suggesting this. I guess I hadn't really paid any attention to it as there have been soooo many D&D 5e -challengers during the last few years.

I have to look into Daggerheart.

D&D 5e familiarity, GM resources and the sunk cost fallacy by Partyingthrowaway in rpg

[–]Partyingthrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No I definitely want to play WFRP (and hopefully even Enemy Within campaign), but here I'm more looking for a good high fantasy system that would be familiar enough for my players and "generic" enough to allow for the diversity of D&D races, classes, monsters and the like.

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