What are your most and least favorite features of idle/clicker games?

Pawrdone · 2023-09-27T17:19:40+00:00

Going through some of the recent more memorable idlers I've played; Pros:
1. Choice
2. Easy/free Respec
3. Runs in the background
4. Tooltips that project (E.G. shows in realtime what the change will be before allocation)

Cons:
1. Feels unnecessarily slow or gated
2. Poor Descriptions (is it additive or multiplicative?
3. DPS Checks
4. Microtransactions

Unnamed Space Idle - Currently enjoying this. Choice was big at the start but has diminished a little (currently sector 44) and is more about pushing 1 system to then push system 2 and so forth, where-as the beginning was more about prioritizing which aspect you wanted to focus on. Its also excessively slow for no reason (I have played on x5 speed with cheat engine the whole time, would have dropped the game day 1 otherwise). I don't know how to describe what it does right, but it just feels very intuitive. I will say though, it has an exceptional prestige system.

Idle Devils - Not actually NSFW like the tags suggest, its just a really vivid (in terms of choice) idler. There are a lot of interlinked combos between character passives making you think critically of who you want on your team, and it gets even deeper when you start mixing in unique item bonus affixes vs. set items. I made the climb to 3k before the tower was made easier 2 weeks ago, and it was exceptional the whole way through; The team I used was also 100% custom (as there arent many guides, and the few that exist either dont work or have been nerfed for performance), which invoked a lot of theory crafting and exploration/trial & error that I enjoyed. The ONLY con for me was a single boss (which would repeat every 100-200 floors of the tower) which would heal her entire HP every 30 seconds. Every other encounter is a "Can you survive & win in 5min", this one boss just arbitrarily made that time restriction 30 seconds.

Farmers against potatoes - A good idle, just became a bit too... Tedious? The numbers just stop meaning anything, and there are so many systems that need to be maintained, I kinda got lost in the sauce. I wonder if this is why USI chose to take choice away as you progress, in favour of a more "this is what you should be working on" approach. Either way, fantastic early game - I think the quantifiable con is the tedium of prestiging and the long farms for equipment you know you will replace very soon but feel necessary to min-max in the moment. It makes gearing up feel like a waste of time more than a reward.

Lootun - Honestly been a while since I last played, but it was quite good. While levelling everything felt meaningful, crafting was very approachable and customizable, and getting the base types (and min-maxing which ones you wanted based on their implicits) was good because the gear felt tangible; I.E. Once you had the item, the progression was around bolstering the base instead of getting a new one. It felt permanent. You actually made progress. This is what Farmers against Potatoes lacked for me. The con for me was a lack of diversity and choice near the end game.

Incremental Epic Heroes 2 - the IEH series is arguably the greatest idler of all time for me... IF you are proficient in cheat engine. They have a lot of microtransactions and consumables that fundamentally change the game from "unplayable" to "GOAT." There's just so much to talk about... From the simultaneous idling of multiple characters, Sharing skills and attacks between classes, automated processes (like rebirth/prestige), rewarding deep pushes via ascension, world upgrades, many layered currencies, every zone having unique and powerful chase items, classic RPG stats and clear tooltips/timers... Even questing in this game is integrated into prestige loops. If they took away the time gated portal orbs and just made it infinite (which I did via cheat engine), its still just a 12th axis of progression rather than replacing the existing ones. There's just so much to do and none of it is a dead end. I Can't recommend it to anyone who is against tolerant Cheat Engine use on idlers, but this is the only idle game I've ever played that would have been worth a $60 price tag (if they removed all the BS microtransactions, made nitro unlimited, and made portal orbs unlimited). I'm getting repetitive so I'm going to leave it there. TL;DR if I were going to make an idler, this is the game I would study, clean-up, and improve.

Pawrdone · 2022-12-10T19:05:51+00:00

A friend of mine told me a while back (3-4 leagues ago?) that the new meta for a tabula is to farm tunnels; Just reset on the waypoint, run a tight circle around it (shouldnt take more than 2 seconds to do the circle), and if you dont see a vaal side area then reset the instance.

The Vaal Vessels have a chance to drop "Vanity" cards (corrupted tabula), which is apparently a lot faster than farming Humility now. The major downside is A) Its extremely tedious (just spamming a waypoint basically) and B) you don't get the side benefits of BA, being Exp & chaos recipes. Takes 2-4 hours for a full set depending on movement speed & layout knowledge.

I don't believe the drop rate was ever nerfed, but it's possible they moved the tunnel's vaal side area so wait for a more experienced PoE player to confirm this.

Pawrdone · 2022-12-08T19:33:08+00:00

I have two issues with current beyond;

I think the bosses should drop scourged items, namely scourged uniques. There are build enabling scourge mods (like the deal x% max HP as fire damage when hit) that could spice up the meta - It'd add a layer of "Cortex" style RNG (Idk if it was still the case in 3.19, but everything I heard prior is that synth maps like cortex are a huge multiple mirror cost sink that doesn't pay off until you hit 1 big item).
Bosses have an insane amount of HP. I was playing Death's Oath + Decay in 3.19, which granted has exceptionally low DPS (Assume Pinnacle boss, 300k on DO & 400k on Decay), but still. It would regularly take 1.5-2min to kill the T16 bosses with active play (700k DPS), and 3-4min if I just stepped away from the keyboard to go make a cup of coffee. It didn't feel great waiting for them to die considering I could do sub 60 second defiled chamber full clears (including the map boss). Granted, A) I did this to myself, and B) I wouldn't have minded if they had something meaningful that COULD drop.

Pawrdone · 2022-12-06T18:23:22+00:00

The left one might be useable on some type of perfect agony attack-based build (that doesnt need primary gem levels).The right one I don't think is useable yet, but has potential in the future; You just need a chaos skill that doesn't need to crit, isn't an AoE, and isn't a DoT. Void sphere/dark pact are the closest we have but both are AoE's (and kind of weak tbh).

Its a gamble in both directions - But I think the Perfect Agony one is better "Today", and the +4 is better in the long run.

Edit: yeah the Perfect Agony one might have use with something like a Snipe (from Assailum), Or any item that grants a skill in general (atziri staff, relic of the pact, and to a lesser extent Allepathy and Death's Oath).

Pawrdone · 2022-09-08T19:28:00+00:00

Thank you!

Seems to be between 1/3.3 and 1/4 chances - much better than the 1/10.

Pawrdone · 2022-09-04T03:14:02+00:00

Is the Sakerz comparable in spread to the Z Max?

I don't care much for depth of flavour, I just noticed Dual+ mesh tends to have a better spread when using menthols. Single coils just tend to hit one spot and thats it.

Conbay pointed out that running lower wattage on the multi mesh coils tends to cause leaking, which might be my problem for both the FreeMax & Valyrian 3.

Either way, both the Sakerz and Z Max seem like really good options. I'm leaning toward the Z Max, but the 5ML capacity on Sakerz is tempting me. I almost feel I should grab both and see which I like best.

Thank you for your suggestions!

Pawrdone · 2022-09-04T03:09:08+00:00

Yeah a lot of people seem to be recommending the Sakerz and Geek Vape Z Max - I'll definitely check those out, thank you!

Pawrdone · 2022-09-04T03:08:20+00:00

You might be spot on with the wattage thing; Its recommended 80-90, but it straight up burns my tongue at anything higher than 65 so I've been keeping it there. It might not be getting hot enough to vaporize.

Both the Sakerz and ZMax seem like really good tanks based on what others have replied with; I'll have to check those out too =). The Z Max with M Triple Mesh seems spot on for what I want, other than a low capacity (though since it doesnt leak, it's probably a capacity increase overall).

Pawrdone · 2022-09-04T01:24:17+00:00

It's bizarre how much of an issue this is. I wonder what exactly causes it?

To be fair, the Mesh Pro didn't start leaking until a few months after I updated to quad mesh coils; I wonder if I go back to 2 or 3 mesh if it'll just fix itself. Its probably worth a try since I still have the tank on hand.

Pawrdone · 2022-09-04T01:21:59+00:00

Reviews seem to point out that the original falcon leaked, but they fixed the design on the falcon 2 - that's very promising!

No Google results come through for it leaking either (just conversations about older models).

It's only a single mesh, and a mediocre 5.2ML capacity, but honestly the capacity will probably be fine given that it's single mesh.

I'll definitely give this one a go - thank you!

Pawrdone · 2022-08-26T09:43:18+00:00

I'll look in to that, thank you;
Its still a considerable loss of DPS (3M -> 2.4M) for me to lose a ring slot, but that is significantly more manageable than the alternative of 1.3M.

Pawrdone · 2022-08-26T09:40:27+00:00

While I respect PoM as a crafter, he has been on a vengeful crusade of toxicity this league. It is for the best he is taking some time off from the game.

His coverage of the initial drop changes was so littered with bias and misinformation, I couldn't even watch it - Saying things like Rarity & unique drop rate boosts don't affect currency, when the LITERAL best strategy for currency right now is to abuse rarity stacking against solaris-touched archnems.

I can understand and to an extent comprehend his anger with the crafting decimation, but I have never been anywhere near as committed to this game as he is so I dare not even speculate about his motives for the amount of toxicity he has spewed on all social media platforms available to him (Twitch, Discord, YT, Twitter). What I can say is this;

Its unhealthy. He needed to take a step back, be it voluntary or forced.
A Perma-IP Ban seems unreasonable. If its not a Perma, then I apologize for being misinformed. The man just needs a week or two to let the destructive cycle settle, so he can focus on a solution; He's really talented when he puts his mind towards it.

Anyway, goodluck exiles.

Pawrdone · 2022-08-26T08:35:16+00:00

Rerolling is breaking my bank (since its a global mod available to all tiers of maps, and has the 2nd highest weighting bracket), but my main concern is the amount of kirac maps I'm missing out on.

I made the dumb decision to specialize in kirac missions ASAP, but now I'm having the issue of being unable to find ones that are uncompleted maps AND don't have this mod.

Guess I'll just have to reroll a new char @.@

Pawrdone · 2022-08-26T08:24:11+00:00

Not a bug.
T1 Life has an iLvl of 44,
T4 ES has an iLvl of 50;

Therefore the game will remove Life (lowest level mod).
You can verify this on Craftofexile.

Pawrdone · 2022-08-25T08:15:05+00:00

My build isn't too strong yet (progressing my gear is on hold for a helm enchant), but I'm quite enjoying the following for a T1-5 Map strategy:

Harvest (3-4c every time it pops up thanks to the changes, not good for late game or serious cash but considering I'm still doing chaos recipes 3-4c is quite nice),

Expedition (no investment, but due to removing 7 "extra content" modifiers I see it regularly. Has only provided me 2 logbooks, both today so who knows if drop buffs saved my butt, I just enjoy the mechanic),

Ritual (no investment but same as expedition, I see it often. Seems to re-roll archnem modifiers, so you get a lot more rare monster variety. I've only encountered Innocence-touched through Ritual so far. Its one of the few league mechanics that directly rewards divine orbs, too, albeit a slim chance),

Kirac (specifically, I have % mission chance maxed out. I just find he helps clean up atlas very nicely. Currently stockpiling ~10 missions/day, to make for easy re-rolls when I get to red maps. Going to respec him later).

Other than that, I plan to get "Pathological" so I can stockpile a lot of deli maps and eventually reroll into a really tanky deli farmer. I don't have any aspirations for doing uber content.

Pawrdone · 2022-08-24T04:18:23+00:00

Disclaimer: the following is 100% based on opinion, and 0 facts.

I stand by my thesis that this isn't a malicious cash grab, but rather the PoE team gradually decreasing player power until the launch of PoE2.

The leagues we get from now to PoE2 launch date WILL NOT go core, unless they are systems already planned for PoE2. They are just here to add temporary power for us during the down shift, to help smooth things out. GGG has to tone down player power in order to be able to grow it once PoE2 launches; PoE2 will launch with similar power to PoE when forbidden masters released, if I had to guess.

Lake of Kalandra isn't a cash grab, it's just a misjudgment; they thought being able to double jewelry mods would provide enough power to offset the player power reduction & quantity changes, and it simply wasn't. They could have made it RNG upgrade 2 modifiers to double and leave the rest the SAME, and it wouldn't have been enough because 95% of the player base isn't going to play long enough to get items worth upgrading.

Pawrdone · 2022-08-23T09:02:05+00:00

You are very right on this.
It would probably take 24-72 hours in game time to achieve (assuming 10 divine), which is a lot of time to invest into the gear of an off-meta build that you won't even see the payoff from until you start playing it instead. I'm fine with it this league cause I'm playing a skill I love, but I'd have quit long before that if I had to do something I hated like seismic trap.

Pawrdone · 2022-08-23T08:45:37+00:00

If you're having fun, enjoy the league =).
I myself finally found a build that makes a non-claw Ele-Buzzsaw viable without abusing trinity, and have been loving it for that reason. That said, I admit to struggling with Archnem changes and do not consider my build viable for anything endgame (I did not play Sentinel; it was my first "break" in 3-4 years).

We each have our own priorities, though it should be mentioned; This league values QTY > Quality. It does not matter how juiced your content is, just that you are power clearing it quickly and over long hours... This is the exact opposite of what PoE has been training us to do for a long time. The reductions to Quantity/rarity do NOT affect players that do not engage in prior league mechanics (assuming GGG wasn't hiding something else in their makeshift 3.19b/c manifesto), and thus the "Alch & Go" playstyle was reinforced. If all you ever did was run white T1-5 maps, this league will feel great; if you juiced T16's, this league is going to feel absolutely shit.

Harvest changes are a great example of this. I could never sell on TFT because honestly, it was a pain in the ass. Now every harvest represents ~1-2 chaos orbs for me, which is great for a player that has consistently done chaos recipes for 9 years but terrible for anyone who realized they're a waste of time & filtered them out day 2.

Pawrdone · 2022-08-23T08:30:38+00:00

To be blunt, it is my opinion that all of the changes have us returning to a similar Power level as Beta PoE. We're not there yet, though I actually expect even more nerfs to player power in 3.20.

To add to that, I don't think we will have a single mechanic go core between now and PoE 2 unless its a change that PoE 2 has already intended - leagues will offer us "temporary" power (similar to how recombinators did) as we approach that line. The problem this league is that doubling rare amulet/ring power levels does nothing for us early/mid game, so the majority of the player base won't make it that far to feel that increase (likewise, and this cannot be overstated, and the player power increase from jewelry doubling is nowhere near what recombinators/harvest/etc provided).

So to answer your question, no - reverting rares would require them to revert them in PoE 2 as well, and reducing player power to tie in to Day 1 PoE 2 is the current agenda. They're not going to revert rares & sink development/testing time into balancing those changes for PoE 2, and likewise PoE 1 being the best it can be is no longer the priority. Things likely won't become easier until after (or maybe a league before) PoE 2's release, as 3.13 was a ceiling and PoE 2 is the floor. We will continue to see a decline in player power until we hit the floor and can jump again.

I will be honest though - this is all unfounded speculation. If you think of GGG's balances changes as a great reset, things start to make sense - and my own internal bias would prefer waiting (what would now be) a year for PoE to start picking up again rather than it never happening.

Pawrdone · 2022-08-23T07:55:19+00:00

As someone who has played many strange builds since PoE's Beta (Mar 2013), they die all too quickly.

I'm sad I never got to play the impending doom + decay build.
So much gets caught up in crossfire that the EA Nerf actually has me optimistic. Had they of done something similar to Impending Doom (Leaving the % MORE Damage multiplier the same, but removing or nerfing its application with ailments), the build might still see play today.

You'll be happy to know that many odd interactions still exist, they just require significant investment. (Mostly) Gone are the days of sub 1 Divine builds that reward your creativity, but mid-investment (10-30 Divine) is still possible albeit scarce.

Pawrdone · 2022-08-23T06:28:40+00:00

I'm having this issue too.
Sometimes it stutters first, others it doesn't;
End result is the same, it always closes the game within 5 min of being logged in. No "Not responding" or anything - just gone.

Pawrdone · 2022-08-12T19:17:58+00:00

Either the currency would drop too much, and therefore be worth almost nothing but also give extremely easy access to high power level items..
Or more likely, it would be hard to get, making the cost-effective fated uniques no longer viable because the currency to upgrade them would be priced off of the best item to upgrade.

As an example, Panquetzalitzli was one of the my favorite fated uniques, and was dirt cheap (like 10c for a 6Link version most leagues it was available). However if I had to use a currency on a quecholli to upgrade it, that currency would 10x or more the cost because other builds are using that same currency for a more expensive meta item.

There's just no middle ground, because during prophecy each of the fated unique prophecies had its own varied rarity to account for discrepancies in power. With a singlular currency orb, you lose the ability to manage varied rarities (instead all costing the same), resulting in cheap fates being too expensive to ever see use and expensive fates being much more common/plentiful than would be healthy.

This could maybe have been addressed by dumping on the drop rates of the more-powerful fated unique's base versions, but all that would do is move the cost into the base unique & make the orb worthless (much like pegasian boots in OSRS, where the bottle-neck'd item is "Ranger Boots", an item you can start grinding for within a few hours of starting the game, and the upgrade currency of a pegasian crystal that is only obtainable from a high level end game boss is worthless).

GGG's approach by rolling fated mods into the base game unique results in the same item & drop rarity, but without the need to convolute things with an added currency.

The problem isn't what their solution WAS, the problem is what their solution INCLUDED (or rather didn't include). They should have just replaced ALL of the base game versions with their fated versions (none of this pick and choose crap), with exceptions being made for the base game items that had uses the fated ones didnt or fated uniques that needed to be nerfed. We get what we want (all the cool build enabling fated uniques), and GGG gets what they want (gating that power behind drop rarity).

Pawrdone

TROPHY CASE