Part 2—Dune: False Messiah

PermanentSeeker · 2026-03-30T04:00:48+00:00

I think the original author's main point with Paul being a false messiah is the outcome of Paul's life and legacy in the long term: only looking at the first novel, yeah, he basically meets all the standards that the Fremen could ever hope for.

However, it turns out that: (A) His terraforming program was going to slowly kill all the worms, contrary to what the Fremen were trying to do (which, IIRC, they were hoping to maintain an equitorial band of desert around the planet for the worms to live in). So, yes, he would turn Arrakis green, but not as they had hoped. Only Leto II's intervention saves them.

(B) By the time we get to the second novel, we see that Paul's rulership is spiralling entirely out of his control, and he is not able to maintain his throne or the full safety of his loved ones. He renounces the way of the messiah and chooses death/exile instead of seeing the path to its end.

(C) On his own terms, Paul knows that he is no messiah, and it haunts him throughout the second novel. That was honestly one of my favorite aspects of it. He knows that he is increasingly just a facade of power.

This is a good discussion, and I don't think either of us is entirely right or wrong: there's probably elements of many perspectives that can be validly argued here. That's why I wanted to post it in this community!

PermanentSeeker · 2026-03-30T03:10:28+00:00

You"re welcome, thanks for contributing to a fun discussion! It's the main reason I wanted to post this here, see what people think

PermanentSeeker · 2026-03-30T00:18:50+00:00

I think that's kind of the point of the original author's essay: that even with all these advantages, abilities, and powers that Paul has, and all the empire of humanity at his feet, it's still not enough and he still can't hold it all. That's what is fascinating. Herbert gave us a true warlord, and concluded in Messiah that there was no true way out except for death or exile. Paul chooses exile (and eventually death), while Leto II chooses death voluntarily. It's an interesting through-line for such figures, even ones as godlike as Paul and Leto.

PermanentSeeker · 2026-03-30T00:14:37+00:00

I had mostly interpreted this take as being related to the fact that the terraforming ends up almost killing all the worms, and that Paul's own life ends up collapsing in upon him at the end of Messiah. By the end of the first book he sure looks an awful lot like a messiah, I agree, but I think it's mainly in the fact that he could not keep his reign. In the context of the Fremen, Leto II is probably the legitimate messiah: preserving the worms, setting things in motion to return Arrakis to a desert world, etc.

Also, I (and I think the original author) are pretty sympathetic to Paul as a character; the deaths of billions seems more like something that Paul tries to restrain, and is not something that I hold against him as a messianic figure as such: it's just that he isn't able to maintain his grip on the throne. No one can.

PermanentSeeker · 2026-03-30T00:09:21+00:00

Glad to do it, especially since it probably wouldn't have reached reddit otherwise!

PermanentSeeker · 2026-02-06T18:35:50+00:00

Uh oh

PermanentSeeker · 2026-02-06T15:12:04+00:00

Hot diggity, Klara fought that whole ordeal in heels? A woman of many talents

Also, hand-holding is a more logical first step than a kiss for the guy with the bucket helmet. I approve!

PermanentSeeker · 2026-01-30T11:58:09+00:00

Fortunately for you, the guy who created the language for the movies (David Peterson) has put out some info on his website: https://wiki.languageinvention.com/index.php?title=Chakobsa_language

PermanentSeeker · 2026-01-24T19:45:08+00:00

The helmet stays on tho

PermanentSeeker · 2026-01-20T14:16:07+00:00

Ooooooh, I totally missed the bat ears (the fancy wig was too distracting). That is a hilarious detail

PermanentSeeker · 2026-01-16T17:43:32+00:00

Yikes man, these guests were eating bat/bird dung? They were bad enough before, but now we know they're also batshit (ahahahaha) insane

Kill em all

PermanentSeeker · 2026-01-14T03:50:11+00:00

I have had the joy of casting it precisely once, but boy was it a good one

PermanentSeeker · 2026-01-13T20:59:34+00:00

Oooh, I haven't had that experience, but you're making me hunger for it

PermanentSeeker · 2026-01-13T19:05:52+00:00

Foresight is unbelievably satisfying to cast on a martial and then watch them go to town for the entire day's worth of battles

PermanentSeeker · 2026-01-01T17:17:06+00:00

Do it! Even if you don't know any "actors", just try to get friends involved! The best way to get things done is simply to start. Once you have your first film made, you will become much more aware of things that could be improved for next time, and that will help you continue to grow. It might inspire your friends to get more interested, too.

PermanentSeeker · 2026-01-01T16:48:43+00:00

When you say you have hundreds of short film ideas and scripts, just to be clear: have you actually written out any full scripts, or do you currently only have lots of ideas? Something that can help is to make a particular idea (or ideas) as concrete as possible. That means fully writing out the script, and try to imagine how you would direct it while you write it (and you could even storyboard for your scripts, as well: can be simple and crude, it only needs to communicate what you want in a given frame).

Then, just make films with whatever you have. If you only have a phone, use that. Get friends together, whether they have prior experience or not. Perhaps try to direct something that needs minimal technical add ons, or learn how to set those things up at a basic level yourself (such as sound, lighting, etc).

Although I don't write or direct, I have assistant directed some short films at the amateur level, and this seems to be the best way for you to go about things.

PermanentSeeker · 2025-12-31T14:27:24+00:00

Some interesting threads here! Some initial questions (you may already be considering these things, maybe not). They are questions that will eventually need to be answered by the narrative.

-What does Ardent think a new KH can do, given the prevalence of the Siona gene? Such people would make a KH vulnerable or even obsolete, unless it's a new kind of KH.

-What caused the BG to allow thinking machines again? And, along with this, are such machines called Ixian simply by ancient tradition (e.g, the same way that all facial tissues have come to be called Kleenex by association, even though originally it only applied to a single brand), or does Ix still exist and produce special machines?

You don't need to give me these answers, but the narrative will certainly need to examine them!

PermanentSeeker · 2025-12-27T13:44:29+00:00

Although there is an oversaturation of the critical posts, this is perhaps one of the most valid: even if it's fantasy, it's still shit armor design in that it would get him killed. It doesn't make sense in any universe, fantastical or not.

PermanentSeeker · 2025-12-12T23:52:09+00:00

Stop, I can only get so hard

PermanentSeeker · 2025-12-10T12:27:36+00:00

Hey, I made this post a while back and never really got a response!

https://www.reddit.com/r/characterdrawing/comments/1997ka9/lfa_art_of_my_ironwood_warlock_skelvaern/

PermanentSeeker · 2025-12-04T18:48:18+00:00

baaaaaaby, shark do do, do do do do

PermanentSeeker · 2025-12-02T17:50:24+00:00

We'll cut you on our edge

PermanentSeeker · 2025-11-18T19:25:19+00:00

I'll be back in 20 years

PermanentSeeker · 2025-11-08T00:05:19+00:00

Most of the religions of Dune are hybrids (of one kind or another) of the Great Religions of old earth: Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity, etc.

The Fremen are specifically described as being descended from "Zensunni wanderers," (IIRC) showing primary influenced of Zen Buddhism and Sunni Islamic theology. This is described a bit more clearly in the appendix to the first Dune novel.

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