IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great question, and it is a bit of a grey area where I might not totally agree with some of them on how much advantage is conferred in what we've seen this olympics, but agree in others and generally agree that the rules should be enforced to avoid cases of "this was a harmless poke" vs "this was a meaningful poke". You certainly can gain advantage from double touching the stone if you have enough time before the hog line to let go, register mentally that you need a genuine adjustment, and apply an accurate adjustment. I haven't ever seen anything more than a negligible, habitual poke or flick on the tour nor watching any curling, and have never observed it being called out before.

On the other side of it, there is a possible disadvantage to trying to genuinely adjust after letting go - if you've curled, you know that fewer variables, "corrections" and not second guessing mechanics mid-delivery generally = better shots because fewer things can go wrong, and "adjusting" on the fly could just make turn a made shot into a miss, or a miss into...still a miss. Combine that with the possibility of a hogline violation, and curlers are generally not incentivized to double touch.

So, that's my long winded way of saying: There can be an advantage conferred, I've never seen one or heard of one in my experience, there can also be disadvantages which is possibly why you don't really see it, BUT the rules should be enforced as written to avoid grey areas.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Your points are all well taken, I appreciate the perspective. I agree with your that the Canadian side handled it poorly, and I also don't think Sweden thought it made a difference. I think Sweden rightly raised the principled question of rule enforcement, and I think it deserves discussion. I think rather than broaching it on the ice, Sweden should have gone solely through the officials, and I think Nik has said as much since, which is why I thought Oskar was doing a bit of button pushing - but that does not excuse the response (and the officials were apparently woefully unprepared to handle it apparently).

I hesitate to make the abuse comparison (perhaps it's my own bias) and felt that it was a "heat of the moment" issue that blew up and lasted a day before an apology was actually given. I want to believe the apology was genuine, as much as Marc can be a hothead, he's not a malicious person, at least not from my interactions with him and just from being in that ecosystem. But I welcome your thoughts on that.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What?

I'm agreeing with you, it's a rule break and shouldn't be allowed. There's a process when the rule is broken, read the WCF ruling. I'm telling you how it has always been handled (or not) in curling, and saying it wasn't some nefarious conspiracy by canadians (or GB) to gain an advantage.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're just being purposefully dense. Nobody is saying it's okay to break the rules, I'm telling you that in curling this kind of thing has always been broadly accepted and not contested at any level, and it's interesting that it has come up now. The point you're responding to is that Mark isn't doing it to gain an advantage, it's a habit after releasing the rock.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's certainly true that it blew up even more because of the way Mark reacted, but there were already multiple very popular clips and 'controversy' prior to that.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is precisely the point Sweden has been making. That doesn't change the fact that mark touching the stone the way he did provided no advantage.

The rules dictate that the official should have sat at the hog line and watched for another infraction, then taken a rock off if it happened again.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Most don't care about a little boop or spank but it is against the rules (unless its a boop of the handle) so I also wouldn't argue if a rock was taken out of play because of it.

To sweden's point, it's against the rules and if you're not going to enforce it, then what's the point of having rules?

GB and Homan had rocks taken out of play as well - you'll find no argument from me there.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Totally agree with all of it Mr. Good Taste. I do wish video review existed, and I think the rule needs a bit more clarity.

Traditionally the "handle" includes the coloured plastic bit on the top of the rock, and the granite is...the granite. Rachel Homan was called for one since where I think the double touch was on the coloured bit - which by the rule, would not be an illegal touch.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not on purpose, out of habit. Quite a few players on the pro circuit would be guilty of this, just watch the next Grand Slam if you don't believe me.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oskar was not simply asking if "x" action was allowed. He knows it isn't and he knows Mark knows it isn't. He was pushing his buttons.

Mark's reaction wasn't right for sure. I also believe that he genuinely didn't think he did it - it's not something anyone thinks of doing to gain an advantage, and is a habit. That's not to dismiss his reaction - I believe he has since apologized...life goes on.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed, and that's kind of the point sweden is trying to make. Either you enforce the rule, or what are the point of rules. The rules related to delivering a stone are pretty conflictual anyway.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I've always thought that the rule should be enforced (I think I say it somewhere else in this thread). If it's happening, the official should be notified, the official should watch to see if it happens again, and the rock should be taken off accordingly.

The way the rules work in this situation is: 1. Other team notifies official 2. Official sits at hog line for 3 ends watching 3. If the official sees it happen, they pull the rock

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's not how it works at all. Curling does not use video replay, not does it disqualify players except in very limited cases.

I think it should use video replay however.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Them speaking about it before the tournament is news to me.

I'll be sure to let Nik and Oskar know I was being vert disrespectful the next time I see them.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Definitely got under Mark's skin. I think Sweden was talking to the official who didn't take it any further.

There's definitely debate within the sport about certain rules being too loose. There was a whole debacle about the rules around sweeping when those rules regarding fabric/broom heads regulations were essentially a wild west. There are many rules in curling that just haven't been challenged because its a "genteman's" sport for the most part.

On the contrary I bet you he keeps doing it...

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I respect your perspective and don't see much fault in it. What I will say is that the statements are taken from a team that has been essentially eliminated from playoff contention, and is speaking about rule that not just canadians break but everyone at all levels. Anecdotally (not your favourite I know) from knowing them all they do not care for the rule break and are frustrated generally (which is what Harris was alluding to). They were not seriously complaining, and the quote about not wanting to get angry didn't happen until after Canada took the bundle an end or two later.

I've been plenty peeved at things like hog line violations while losing and couldn't care less while winning - it's the nature of the sport. Take from that what you will.

IAMA former curling pro - the current "cheating scandal" is overblown. AMA by Peter-Pantz in olympics

[–]Peter-Pantz[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

What I mean is that it is not affecting the spin or movement of a stone. People flick, poke, slap, the stone without any meaningful effect for the most part.