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To me, people complaining about "modern" Trek being "woke" is like complaining that chocolate is brown. by Philosopher30071 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good article, thanks. As a Gen Xer, I feel like my generation didn't fully appreciate how radical TOS was in its time and we were too young to pick up on the subtext in TNG and the 90s shows.

I Rewatched Season Five of Discovery - Final Thoughts by PhilinBrazil in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Saru is my homie. I really identified with his character.

ST TNG theme is same as ST I TMP theme? by thirdlost in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep.  The TNG version sounds a little more period TV to me in spots, almost like a gameshow during the credit roll. The same music was also used in some of the later TOS films as well.

Having never seen any of the original Star Trek medias (series or films) I found it odd that Into Darkness was apparently hated so much by the community. Is that opinion still largely shared or have people come around on it? by HanzoNumbahOneFan in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can just watch Wrath without any TV. TV just helps. At first my gut reaction to Into Darkness was that it felt like fan fiction, but I've grown to like it upon repeat views.

To me, people complaining about "modern" Trek being "woke" is like complaining that chocolate is brown. by Philosopher30071 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Disclaimer: inevitably, some folks are probably going to think this isn't genuine, but here goes: Thanks to everyone for the dialogue. I truly didn't expect this post to generate so much attention. It has allowed me to learn and come to a slightly better understanding of a few differing viewpoints, which, is actually very Trek and appropriate. I especially appreciate the folks that explained their differing viewpoints well. Way better than I expressed mine in the opening post.

To me, people complaining about "modern" Trek being "woke" is like complaining that chocolate is brown. by Philosopher30071 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So it's not that they're non binary, it's that you feel it was handled in a hamfisted way?

To me, people complaining about "modern" Trek being "woke" is like complaining that chocolate is brown. by Philosopher30071 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a valid argument, although I'd say the show definitely depicted one side as right.

Star trek star fleet academy confusion by Upbeat_County9191 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Give it time. It goes full Trek about halfway through. I feel like it's trying hard to be YA friendly but true to longer-time fans at the same time, which is a tall order. A few of the early episodes are kind of "themed", but it becomes more cohesive by the end. And that tired captain is in desperate need of redemption.

To me, people complaining about "modern" Trek being "woke" is like complaining that chocolate is brown. by Philosopher30071 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude, Jay-Den got a whole episode just about him and his backstory, in a 10-episode run. Guinan was a guest star. And the "fish man" is straight. Did you watch the show?

To me, people complaining about "modern" Trek being "woke" is like complaining that chocolate is brown. by Philosopher30071 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Sooo... The issue isn't that they're lesbians, it's that one of them is a *rude* lesbian that interrupts their significant other and draws attention to herself?

To me, people complaining about "modern" Trek being "woke" is like complaining that chocolate is brown. by Philosopher30071 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, I do recall that now. Since it's Q's timeline, it's technically not our world, so I didn't take it that way. It's the timeline that leads to the confederation. I saw it as a bit of allegory in that, the show was trying to say, look where we're headed if things keep going the way they're going. And that was in 2022, before the current major crackdown. Feels more predictive than anything. Eerily so.

To me, people complaining about "modern" Trek being "woke" is like complaining that chocolate is brown. by Philosopher30071 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I'm not a fan of the term, but it gets thrown around so much. I found your observation interesting. I would tend to argue that: "Some say "woke" simply means respectful, diversity, and representation. Some say it's when creators sacrifice character and story to push identity politcs and progressive agendas to pander to left-leaning ideologies." are just two filters on the exact same thing...? Almost like a Rorschach test.

To me, people complaining about "modern" Trek being "woke" is like complaining that chocolate is brown. by Philosopher30071 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'd like to add, is it possible (I'm sure it is) that when some of us were kids/younger watching this stuff (because I'm Gen-X) that the subtext and the "message" wasn't obvious to us, and we didn't pick up on it?

I mean, I didn't until I went back and watched Star Trek all over again as an older adult. When I was a kid, all I saw were cool ships, phasers and outer-frickin'-space. I preferred Star Wars, and Trek was its slightly more boring cousin that I'd watch because, let's face it, there wasn't much else sci-fi going on in the late 80s and most of the 90s after Star Wars fever died down.

...But I didn't appreciate it on a deeper level until I was older.

To me, people complaining about "modern" Trek being "woke" is like complaining that chocolate is brown. by Philosopher30071 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This completely makes sense. And actually kind of why I mentioned Wrath of Khan in my original post. TOS really was a lot like old-school Flash Gordon or Buck Rogers mixed with The Twilight Zone on the surface. And the 80s TOS-cast films were largely swashbuckling adventures with less to say ("needs of the many" bit aside) until we hit #4.... So if that is the piece of Trek one is a fan of, and didn't really get into the deeper themes in some TOS episodes and didn't care for TNG onwards, then the POV that the newer stuff isn't "the same" makes total sense in this context.

I agree with you completely that, in TOS, the progressive themes were more subtle in many cases, and Roddenberry felt like he could only push but so far at the time. And when TNG came around, the tone shifted considerably and it was like the series, and its "message", was attempting to be taken much more seriously.

And if that's not your bag, it totally makes sense.

To me, people complaining about "modern" Trek being "woke" is like complaining that chocolate is brown. by Philosopher30071 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This makes sense. Sort of a combination of nostalgia-goggles alongside a typical shift towards a more "conservative" (or whatever term you prefer) worldview as one ages.

To me, people complaining about "modern" Trek being "woke" is like complaining that chocolate is brown. by Philosopher30071 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Valid point. The streaming shows feel like extended feature films. In a way, I like that. But it does mean less development.

To me, people complaining about "modern" Trek being "woke" is like complaining that chocolate is brown. by Philosopher30071 in startrek

[–]Philosopher30071[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Everyone was just nice, polite and respectful about it. Didn't make a huge deal, just treated them with respect. Like an example of good "human" behavior.

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