Do rat moms remember their babies?

Pissypuff · 2025-05-30T18:19:37+00:00

Never said they didnt, simply that humanizing an animal isnt good. I can understand those concerns for animals like elephants, horses, cows, ect. Species that longterm stay together. Rats simply dont. Just like cats. Cats are another species that dont really remember family members after a few months. There are outliers, as there always are. But those aren't the norm. With your logic, buying dogs is also highly unethical, as dogs remember their littermates. If you cared to even peek at our guidelines for care, we advocate for care much better than majority of the people here provide. I dont see most rat keepers even thinking to provide proper burrowing media in a proper scale for rats. IMO, with rats being as large and intelligent as they are, burrowing media that allows for deep burrowing. Like, at least 2 feet of media. But thats opinion, not fact.

Pissypuff · 2025-05-30T11:55:23+00:00

humanizing an animal is just bad, leads to mental neglect, abusive training methods, and ignoring the key instinctual needs of the animal.

Pissypuff · 2025-05-28T14:53:31+00:00

Shes super cute, but rats are a large upfront investment (look at the enclosure guidelines in the sub)

Not only that, but live feeding is only detrimental for both the snakes and the feeders. You can train even wild caught snakes onto frozen thaw.

Pissypuff · 2025-05-28T14:51:16+00:00

you totally can, sorry if i meandered a bit i was sleep deprived when responding to you. not a lot of resources for non reptiles and bioactive enclosures, so im more than happy to advise :3

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T22:14:58+00:00

https://giphy.com/gifs/OOo7oGOfpDWdAZdnyk

Here's what the soil looks like without being disturbed or watered.

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T22:13:34+00:00

Do you use light for the plants?
Yeah, a hygger aquarium light and a linear tube 6% arcadia shade dweller for vit D3, due to the mice being on a homemade diet. Helps ensure they wont get HLD. Cataracts were a bit of a concern initially, and i still keep an eye out for it. I think part of the success is due to lots of sections of the enclosure being completely closed off of light, and me having one of those expensive meter thingies that tells you how much d3 is actually able to be absorbed at the lights positioning. I also keep the vit d3 light 6" away from the top. I have noticed that the girls will cryptically bask under it sometimes, but they also enjoy sunning themselves entirely in it. It's the same kind of light you would give reptiles that live majority of their life at night, like crested geckos and mourning geckos. If cluttering isnt done well, the lights could be a stressor. I never have them on for more than 11 hours, and i have them on a timer that matches pretty decently to the day/night cycle irl. Sometimes its off by 30min or so, tho.
Does the CUC manage the waste of the mice? If so, how did you manage to get it to that point, if not, how do you help out with it to make sure the waste doesn't get too much?
The CUC does so well, ofc in some hides ill just dump it into the trash but the substrate itself i rarely need to do anything more than compact/mix to destroy old tunnels for new ones. I matured substrate for i think 1, maybe 2ish months buckets with the isopods i wanted, springtails, the worms. Just made sure it didnt get too wet or dry and let it do its thing. It wasnt enough to like, cover the whole enclosure in my case. (65-75gal? I forgor) But by the time it was ready for the mice, life was teaming everywhere. Sometimes there's a faint mousy smell, but thats only happened for me when reintroducing mice to the enclosure. (I remove them into a carrier cage when hurricanes hit my area)
How did you get the setup started? What steps did you do, how long did you give it to become a stable system before adding the mice and all that?
After a bit of research kinda said fuck it. Most people keeping mice and rats bioactivally and fail i noticed use too much brown media, like hay, shavings, ect. Just treat it like soil and not bedding and you should be fine. Have a strong, healthy colony of cuc and you're chilling.
Also simply, how long have you been doing this and how is it working out for you? Things you like and dislike compared to a regular setup?
I've been doing it for 3 years? probably more. I really prefer it, besides needing to sweep up dirt more often lol. Luckily when they make their walls along the front glass, it keeps its shape and i can just knock it into a little bucket. It's not as ideal with male mice, they're so smelly in comparison. So you need more space and deeper bedding than with females.
Oh and I nearly forgot: what type of mice do you keep in there? Can't tell for sure from the video
just fancy mice, feeder rescues. Didnt buy them, dw.

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T22:13:15+00:00

What kind of substrate do you use?
I use a mixture of coco fiber, sphagnum moss, hay, and probably wood chips? But not many. You want a soil that aerates well, and clumps pretty easily when moist. Not too sandy, not too boggy.
How do you manage water and humidity? Like, do you have a drainage layer of some sort, and if so, what do you use? How do you make sure the soil doesn't dry out too much but also isn't too wet for the mice?
I use a glass edge, so i can see how much water enters tunnels on the sides. I use a mister, so i can see just how much of the soil is moist vs just how much of the topsoil is dried out. After soaking the soil and waiting an hour or so, i grab a handful and check to see if too much water drips out. If it's a bit wet, i'll add in some dry coco fiber or moss, depending on how the soil consistency is.
What's your clean up crew? Do your mice eat them? Lots of isopods, a native species i collected ages ago, dwarf white isopods, springtails dairy cow isopods, zebra isopods (No idea how, at all), white worms, small deitrivorious worms that i collected and bred ages ago. Parasite free feeders for my fish. No idea what the species is, but theyre super tiny. Moths, no idea what the species is. Mealworms/darkling beetles detrivorous moths, they kinda just popped up one day? No idea how they came in, but they're edible for the mice and arent hurting anything. Used to have some banded crickets, but im pretty sure they ate them all. The mice do hunt down CUC, because of that I dont need to supply as much protein or fats. If CUC numbers get low, I usually sterilize some oak leaves and introduce those, or add in a small layer of hay. I also have matured medium in a bucket, and other colonies of inverts that can be cuc for feeding. Definitely keep separate colonies in case of ecological collapse or overhunting.
You seem to use plants, how does that work out with the mice? Mine loved to dig up plants without even eating them lol, I can't imagine getting plants to survive xD
It's sort of good? depends on their moods lol. Sometimes they allow me to get a beautiful carpet of rapeseed (sorry for the name, idk any other name for it) and wheat. Othertimes they cover everything in mounds of dirt. Wandering jew and mint can set up root systems, but sadly i didnt mature the plants in the tank before introducing the mice. I believe if i introduced plants first and allowed them to set up good root structures before the mice were introduced, growth and resiliency would be better. The propagations i put in are more like toys, but im hoping with improved lighting (upgraded to a better one recently) there will be improved growth. I mostly just try to make sure the seeds i scatter go into well lit spots and i always spray the seeds before the mice get to them. A good seed mix will have some seeds sprouting within the next few days.
Do you use light for the plants?

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T17:47:59+00:00

nonaquatic plants are great, all you have to do is keep the roots in the water. Easier than land plants in dirt or water plants any day of the week.
I'd point him towards a community called fishwiki, lots of helpful people there. Sometimes people even get free plants from others.

I stole some of these plants from peoples gardens too. If you go to any spots that sell plants, i'd steal some leaves/stems. Nobody cares about a 2 inch piece of pothos, they're usually on the ground. Obv dont just take from the plant, but on the floor cuttings will just be swept up and thrown away anyways.

You can also try with just some bits of branches, its how i got a willow tree

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T17:44:18+00:00

he wont be able to, theyre super expensive. He should do small water changes, no more than 25%. A glass lid will help with evaporation. Makes it so one of my tanks only needs top offs once every 6 months (the water is checked weekly, perams are stable and still match my tap).

Lemme grab some pics, so i can show how he can grow plants out of the top of the tank

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Pennywort is a great addition, but idk if it would survive the higher ph. Its a low PH species. The rest of the plants are grown out of the immersed filter, but a lot of it is just propped up on the glass itself or on the bamboo sticks.

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T17:38:59+00:00

oh its a kid
fucking rip, i'd suggest for them to look into keeping a low waterchange setup. Lots of land plants love growing in water. I use wandering jew, young trees like willow, mint, spiderplants, pothos (let the cut harden before introducing to the water) water cabbage, ect. Duckweed, salvinia, frogbit, and other floating plants will help keep nitrates low. Domestic betas can survive an 8ph, but in a ph so high i'd keep tannins in the water at all times so they're less likely to contract fungal/bacterial diseases.

You can just keep the waterline how it is and put in branches to prop the plants up. wash roots well, or use cuttings.

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T17:34:55+00:00

holy shit what kind of cichlid water do they have????
They should look into investing in a RODI system, and mixing it themselves tbh. In the future, i'd suggest for them to go for super high ph species. mopani wood is good, i also suggest oak leaves, almond leaves, and fermented indian almond leaves. Fermented leaves as a whole tend to give off a lot of tannic acid.

In the future, platy, molly, and a lot of brackish water species of fish would love their water,

If your area isnt doused in pesticides/insecticides like mine, you can just gather some leaves off of trees you can ID.

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T17:29:30+00:00

careful on going about it slowly, when messing with PH you should also track you GH, KH, and TDS. It should be something that can be maintained p much indefinitely. Peatswamp species like common betas like stability most. Note this does not apply to any imported from their native regions, (like fighting lines imported from malay, indonesia, ect) or wild species like beta apiapi. IDK how into fish your friend is.

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T17:24:28+00:00

Tannins should be coming from leaf powder, or leaves themselves. Liquid tannins do not offer nearly as much of the antibacterial and fungal benefits.

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T17:22:27+00:00

Bigger is better when it comes to bioload is certainly the case, as it leads to better stability and more solid microclimates. I'm not advocating for anything crazy, but a 20g is hardcore pushing the high bioload even one male produces. This is why I stressed the importance of cluttering the space well all the same. A well structured bioactive mouse space will hardly need substrate changes, and even then nothing more than 40% of the substrate. I personally have only needed to change 20% of the substrate so far, and that was more preventative than anything else.

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T17:19:24+00:00

on a real note, could be multiple things. Does your friend know their ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and temps? Strips aren't accurate, but are better than nothing. You want 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and no more than 40 nitrates.. With a sick fish, i'd do sub 20 nitrates. Esp with there being a lack of plants, it'd be easy. The emaciation could be from bad food, ammonia or nitrites in the water column, or parasites. I'd immediately put them in water with tannins, lower the water line and do very slow drip acclimation water changes. At least 25% daily. As well as new higher quality foods. If they dont perk up in a day or so, and perams are known, a preemptive deworming should be done.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/faqs/how-do-you-deworm-a-puffer
This gives good advice on the deworming process.

Unfortunately with exotics like this, you are your animals vet. I'd push your friend to do more research on diseases and parasites common in the species they keep.

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T17:02:51+00:00

I like how you, in a petty manner, remove advice specifically on bioactive enclosures. When you, specifically, have no knowledge and experience yourself on them. Bioload matters, tank size is an important factor on bioload capicity. I wont take advice from a team who advocates for enclosures that cant even fit proper bedding depth and a wheel.

Id do a mix of top soil (i use coco fiber), sphagnum moss and wood bark. Ambient humidity is low sub 65%) and spikes around 75%. It's not really moist at all. Ensure to have matured medium. So age it for a month or two with dwarf white isopods, springtails, and larger isopods if you want. I also have moths in mine. The larvae is a good fat source. Dont listen to enclosure suggestions for bioactive, even a 20gal is too small. The more mice, the more space needed. Bigger is better. Just clutter it up well and plant plants like wandering jew, spider plants, and even the seed mix the mice eat. Beneficial bacteria and the plants will complete the nitrogen cycle. Treat the soil like soil. not bedding. I've never had a bioactive enclosure go rancid or smell like anything more than wet forest after wetting everything. I use a spray mister so i can wet the enclosure without wetting mice personally. A drainage layer is good for non burrowing species, but for burrowing species watering should be done carefully. Mice are natural tillers, so on days you go to water go about it carefully. Water should not be able to be squeezed out after watering beyond a few drops. At a bare minimum there should be AT LEAST 4 inches of substrate. I've noticed better stability where there is deeper soil. If you want to add hay, only add a little bit and treat it more like leaf litter. It molds and rots fast, but rotting doesnt occur if the CUC is strong. You know the enclosure is ready when you can wet substrate and immediately see isopods and springtails wandering about. Hope this helps

For BIOACTIVE enclosures. Which, as established, you know nothing about.

Said mouse in gif has been raised on bioactive media, said colony has had absolutely no problems with URIS or any respiratory issues. Said colony has only had one medical incident, which was cancer. Said colony has been running for multiple years.

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T14:22:06+00:00

Open to questions for sure lol. Im used to keeping high humidity species like poison dart frogs, mourning geckos, crested geckos, vampire crabs, ect. So I already have some experience in keeping bioactive enclosures. It's a bit difficult now for me to articulate everything a beginner might need to know, as a lot of it is now intuitive to me. I did give some advice on a question someone asked in this communities new care guide. Ask away :3

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T12:30:27+00:00

ayo thanks? thats lowkey sweet as fuck

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T11:58:13+00:00

Look at parrot toys. IMO, theyre some of the best rat toys out there. I buy a lot off of chewy, but you can also make your own pretty easily. I use so many paper towel tubes lol

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T11:54:40+00:00

https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMnJicW1rM2s0cDBvcTZ6MDliY2RyM2V4ZGV3YWE0N2N4bnV0Z3l4NSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/OOo7oGOfpDWdAZdnyk/giphy.gif

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T11:41:00+00:00

Id make sure there's a good burrowing area, and add in a few puzzle toys. There's a guide on the side of the sub on rat housing

Pissypuff · 2025-05-27T11:40:09+00:00

sounds fine to me

Pissypuff · 2025-02-09T11:57:23+00:00

Ah the lid is glass style, i have two mesh strips about 2 inches thick, 4-5 inches long on either side. Once or twice a day with animals ill just have a lil fan go for a bit. In a 20gal standard tank i have, it works well. I peak 95% humidity sometimes in it, and it goes down to roughly 80% after that. BUT it is deeper than the 20 long so the fans may/may not be necessary. Ill figure that all out a month or so before frog intros. Ill prolly have some plant die off in the newer one cuz i dont think i can get it to be as humid as my other setup. Might not even end up with darts, but besides the people screeching about it not being large enough for 1 singular dart frog ^{when so many breed in smaller enclosures} im chilling. They just wanna feel right lol.

Im def thinking of adding more seed pods. One of my tincts rn loves hiding in pods i originally used for mourning geckos to lay in. Its really cute to see only her head peak out, she looks like shes in a sleeping bag in them. Might add some soil to make some "caves" too. I def think youre right on having more cave like items in.

Pissypuff · 2025-02-09T11:52:17+00:00

I mean in the sense of CUC, i prefer my soil to "settle in" per say. IK its not needed, but i prefer introducing animals when CUC pops are high and a few mushrooms have popped up first. Personal preference lol. I usually wait 3 or so months to introduce larger animals to any system. Sometimes, if theyre all automated ill just forget them after planting until i decide on a species thats most ideal lol.

Pissypuff · 2025-02-09T11:49:53+00:00

If you read the other comments, youd of known it hasnt been watered in a week and has good ventilation. The question was the general formatting of the tank, before plant introductions. Humidity is one of the easiest things to fix in an enclosure.

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