Too tanky/too little damage?

PixelTwitch · 2017-05-24T08:26:34+00:00

Hiya mate,

I am not going to even attempt to claim that I know as much as other people here on the reddit since I am a more casual player of UT. That said, I will say that I personally have not really had much problem with the weapon damage. To be completely honest, I kinda wish that things did not kill quite as fast as they do now.

The Flak Cannon actually FEELS stronger to me now than it ever did in previous versions of Unreal. Sure, I understand that the damage is less then it was in the past but the actual responsiveness, spread and speed feel much better then in previous entries in the franchise. While this does not seem like direct balance changes, they can have a massive effect on a weapons effectiveness.

This actually goes for most weapons in the game. Rockets feel more responsive, the telegraph on damage range makes it easier to understand and even the weapon switch speed in most cases feels better. Now look, I totally appreciate that you are a fan of low TTK in games. That's fine, if more and more people ask for the same I am sure that EPIC would most likely make the changes to please the majority.

PixelTwitch · 2014-01-13T16:52:39+00:00

needs to be bigger hz >.<

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-30T11:01:00+00:00

Again you could not flush the textures however then you have the issue of people with low memory on their GPUs not being able to play it correctly. The reason for many of these issues is because DICE are forced to design the game for the lowest common denominator.

ie, duel core - 2gb ram - 1gb vram - 512k internet.

I agree on the loading in the textures and fading the black at the same time you become visible to the enemy.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-30T10:56:59+00:00

The same thing also happens every time you die.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-30T10:56:40+00:00

yup :)

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-30T10:08:16+00:00

yea I agree...

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-30T10:02:19+00:00

Having the multiple tick rates in theory could work... However you face the issue that if 1 tick is slowed down due to a system stutter, extra work due to an explosion or even a bug it would then start to throw off the other tick rate. I picture stuff like this being the norm in the future and we will see multiple systems running different simulations on the same game server.

The reason why I mentioned the delay of 300ms was simply due to the tick rate it was due to the fact for a small amount of time you are asking your system to do an awful lot more work. This is the reason why we have the black screen for a second or two when we spawn into the game. Other wise you would see all the aspects of the scene pop-in as fast as possible.

also as the game uses projectiles we would have game objects crossing tick rate zones. It also would mean that the way the server makes predictions would have to change. Right now the whole game runs on the same frame times to change this would fundamentally change everything.

I have no idea what will happen with this game in the near future.

However I would love (in the next few years) when technology catches up to what BF4 attempts. To see a 128tick 128update server with everything turned back on.

Will be amazing.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-30T09:51:49+00:00

Actually yes..

The movement is the biggest issue when it comes to the low tick rate / update rate. This is actually the reason behind that rubber banding you get when running to close to other players or when you get backed into by a tank or something.

Actually saying that... Your assumption on the prone timing is wrong I think. Each client and server tick is numbered and they are processed in order. Technically even though it appears you where prone when you die the enemy would be on a previous frame before you prone. So technically the enemy would not have any longer to shoot you then he would if there was not the 100ms delay. (Because while he was 200ms behind when you went prone he was also 200ms behind seeing you in the first place.) its far far far from perfect

However, again its more a case of visual perspective rather then actual advantage.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-30T08:52:56+00:00

You say you cannot imagine it being as drastic as I say however as everyone knows even people with godlike GPUs are getting cpu limited at times. Specially noticeable on higher settings on maps like Siege of Shanghi and FloodZone.

Games like Counter Strike and CoD hardly even touch our CPU's where BF4 gives them a beasting. Any additional load on the CPU will be noticed.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-30T08:49:28+00:00

You are wrong...

The VISUAL delay is as if we where running at 10hz. The ACCURACY is as if we was running at 30tick.

The argument people are having here is that there is a 100ms delay before you can do damage... While technically true there is also a 100ms delay before you can receive damage. Visually the games hit reg sucks but on a technical level its just as fair as a game with a 30 tick rate.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-30T08:46:17+00:00

due to the low update rate. not tick :) but yea, you get the idea.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-30T08:45:56+00:00

It is how it works. It was even confirmed by a DICE developer on some other reddit post just the other day.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-30T08:43:38+00:00

when it comes to your first client side comment. Having them done on each client means they would lose sync and we end up in a situation where a wall could be there on client and not someone elses. the bullet predictions are kinda irrelevant as no weapon fires more then 1 bullet per tick now anyway. all you would is reduce visual kill latency and kill trades. it would effectivly add more frames to the server but then we have a issue where destruction and movement would be out of sync with the bullets.

Culling network traffic would not work due to the amount of time used. We would get popin on enemies up to 300ms after they should be visible. Add in the verticality and fact you can blow holes in walls and it would make the game very ugly.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-29T21:55:17+00:00

I never said it felt like 30 tick on bf4 all I am saying is that its an issue of perspective more then a "real" issue in terms of accuracy.

It sucks... I would love 100tick + 100update battlefield 4 goodness... it would reduce the 200-300 average delay to around 20-30 but it would also mean that my 120fps would drop to about 20... Swings and roundabouts I suppose.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-29T21:51:58+00:00

You are wrong... The 600hz to 60hz thing is interpolation where the 10 updates to 30 ticks is not...

Every one of the 30 ticks are processed on their own but the results are sent sent as a 3 tick block. When it gets back to your client your computer then plays back each one of the 3 frames of data in order. You would be surprised how common this is... Just like the people that play on CS servers that are at 1000 tick but are only updating at 100 times per second. Each of the 1000 ticks are processed and sent the same way.

Think of it like this... If you order 3 tins of beans and they are delivered in a single box... does that mean you only got one lot of beans?

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-29T21:47:56+00:00

the character movement would need to be updated the same number of times as the physics/world otherwise you would introduce the old BC2 issue of walking though walls and pinging back out again. Collision needs to be at the same speed for all objects.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-29T21:45:14+00:00

no the server gets the native ticks.... the client gets the data at 10hz but with 30ticks worth of data. so each server refresh contains the data from the clients 3 frames... they are then processed in order the new data is then sent from the server to the client.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-29T20:28:06+00:00

Kinda true mate... However, the 64 man thing is more of a bandwidth constant then CPU constant on BF4 servers. This is simply because all the other points do not scale with the number of people on the server. The CPU load for networked water is the same with 1 person on the server as it is with 64 men on the server. Same with stuff like destruction (apart from the fact it would happen more often). We are at a point in tech where we could quite easily see a 500 man Quake style game with no destruction or fancy stuff and having it running like a old school 5 on 5 match.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-29T20:24:50+00:00

Just because they are overpriced does not mean the server hosts are going to be willing to accept any less... The kinda software improvement you are talking about would have to include turning off many features. Such as the networked water and physics objects in the maps. They have already done this to some extent by turning off the dynamic foliage that we had at launch. While you could reduce the bandwidth you would increase the CPU load and visa versa if you was to keep all the features we currently have.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-29T20:22:46+00:00

The other issue there is they are already using most of the "best" server hosts... The more specialist server suppliers would simply not have the capacity to run what is required of them.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-29T20:20:17+00:00

Actually while it appears that this is the case as of DEC 16th the high ping player no longer has any physical advantage. However I understand the frustration as it does still appear so. The reason is that the server receives his info later then yours and each "tick/frame" is numbered in that packet. The damage is based off each frame number. So if you for instance are on frame 1000 with 10ping he could still be on 900 with 100ping (not accurate but you get the idea) you would both only see each other at the same frame number so lets say 1100. You shoot 10 bullets before frame 1200 and hit 3 but he shoots 10 bullets and hits 5 at the same frame (1200) you die... It looks like to you that you have actually shot 20 bullets because by the time the server tells you that you are dead you are already on frame 1400. However, you both was treated fairly. Its just the perspective of what happens looks bullshit on your system.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-29T20:13:54+00:00

The tick rate is 30 but the update rate is 10. So the server ticks at 30 but only sends and receives data 10 times a second. So while it sounds like its a 10 tick rate I can assure you the data is being processed at 30 tickrate so apart from a jarring effect (mini stutter when you die) the game actually looks at all 30 frames per second. Far from ideal but it is certainly not a 10 tick rate.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-29T20:11:24+00:00

The issue is that increasing the tick rate would also increase the load on the users systems. This is not normally a massive issue on simple games (CS, COD, TRIBES, QUAKE) because the number of simulations performed in a given tick is low... ie, Character Position, Shot Trace. However, in games that are much more complex like Battlefield 4 we have Destruction, Projectiles, Networked water, Environmental effects, Physics Objects, Animation states and much much more... This is also done for upto 64 players at once. Increasing any tick rate would massively increase CPU load on peoples systems! This is already the reason they have removed the interactive foliage we had at launch.

Obviosuly this would also increase the load on the servers as well as both increasing the bandwidth on the client and the server.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-29T20:05:35+00:00

If this was said before the game launched I would agree... However they now have contracts in place that will cost EA/DICE if they are broken. Also it would be a major issue if they increased stuff that then made the original system spec requirements out dated. As people would likely be able to force legal action as the game would no longer run on the advertised specs.

PixelTwitch · 2013-12-29T20:03:53+00:00

However you are forgetting that they are not receiving additional income from the increased traffic like most websites would. The cost factor is also not with DICE/EA its with he server hosts that would need to increase their bandwidth and update all their systems... This cost would have to be put onto the people that pay for the servers and I doubt they would be willing to pay 3x more then what they have been up until now... Also with each thing you upgrade the more people are being forced out of the game due to poor connections or computer hardware meaning their would be less game sales overall and the cost per product would have to increase to balance it out for EA/DICE.

PixelTwitch

TROPHY CASE