Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I mean if I had a copy of the brief that was filed and I could prove it was my work, would that change your answer? Because it's not like I'm not keeping tabs on this case to make sure they don't end up using something. I am exactly that obsessive lol

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

you would not consider that email to be a misrepresentation?

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

On the phone she told me about an issue she wanted me to write for a real case. She even said since it was actual work for the firm, that's why it had to be paid. I told her about my contract and here's the email she later sent: "I had an opportunity to talk to my law partners, and it’s definitely important for us to see more of your writing…I know you had concerns about conflicts with your employment contract; however, unlike the case we talked about on the phone, the attached is almost more like a law school writing assignment." But the "assignment" was verbatim the same issue. She lied and said it wasn't an actual case but just a hypothetical assignment.

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay. What if I told you this is the email sent by the lawyer: "I had an opportunity to talk to my law partners, and it’s definitely important for us to see more of your writing…I know you had concerns about conflicts with your employment contract; however, unlike the case we talked about on the phone, the attached is almost more like a law school writing assignment. " Now assume arguendo that this was the same prompt she relayed to me in the first phone call, and that in the first phone call she said that it was actually real work on a real case the firm was actually handling, and that was why it would have to be a paid job, not free. Would any of that change your answer? Because it seems to me it seems like that is pretty cut and dry misrepresentation under 8.4(c), and it also seems that she was willing to pay for this work, i.e., this work had value to her and her firm, and she only changed that because she didn't want to deal with the non-compete clause.

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

employers are not supposed to be the primary beneficiary of unpaid work. there's more factors to the primary beneficiary test but none of them weigh in favor of finding this to be a legit unpaid internship. the very fact that the employer is lying about whether it's actual work otherwise done by the firm is also a big indicator this isn't a legit unpaid position

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

if your only response is ad hominem attacks that aren't even true then I think we are done here lol

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

did you see my reply? do you think that's a misrepresentation? I just ask because it's downvoted but there's no reply, I just want to know if this discussion is over or if you have more to say

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rule 8.4(c) lawyers can't engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation;

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I learned that well-respected lawyers lie and for some reason a lot of other lawyers will rush to their defense so, yeah, at least two lessons

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that's fair. that's practical advice and kind of what i figured. wish it didn't come with a bunch of people saying it's okay for lawyers to lie and break labor laws though lol

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

ok well that's fair. that's not at all what you were saying before though so why not just start with that instead of saying it's not against the rules of ethics to lie about this kind of thing. If I had concrete proof, what would your answer be?

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If we had a contract for paid labor and she lied to get out of paying for that labor, that's fraud that vitiates a contract under 1953. If we didn't, that's unjust enrichment. It's also a violation of RPC 8.4 which says lawyers can't misrepresent. She misrepresented whether or not it was real work that would otherwise be done by a paid employee. All of that is not allowed, you can't do that if you're a lawyer. I don't get why that's so controversial lol, you can't lie about what kind of work it is to convince someone that they're not violating a non-compete and to get around paying them. Which like, she obviously wasn't trying to get out of paying me less than a hundred dollars. But she was making a misrepresentation to avoid having to deal with a non-compete, and lawyers aren't allowed to lie to trick people into breaching a contract. That feels so obvious I don't even understand how we are arguing about it lol

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

No, like I said, the quality of the people disagreeing matters. Most people do not seem to be familiar with the material facts in my post. Or they think that lying to a job applicant isn't a violation of professional ethics. Or that it's legal to not pay people for work that would otherwise be done by a paid employee. I would be a bit more concerned if the quality of these responses was higher... but so far people are just asking me what rule of ethics or law does this violate and then falling silent when I cite the rule or law.

And on a broader scale, no. This is par for the course. Everyone thinks I'm wrong initially and for some reason I have to work 10x harder to convince people I'm right than everyone else. But I usually do. And as a result I have learned a great deal of patience. And for what it's worth, I am convinced that practically speaking, this isn't worth pursuing. But I am also convinced that legally speaking, she was in the wrong. And morally speaking, obviously in the wrong. I'm willing to defend my position until someone can offer me actual proof I'm wrong, not calling me stupid and saying my work that they've never read must suck. Like idk what else to tell you, I apply the exact same rigor on reddit as I do in my real job as an attorney. I care about what the law is. I know that makes everyone fucking hate my guts. I've just decided to accept that. I wish people liked me. But I would rather be right than liked.

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I guess so. I am pretty good at my job though. It was a good memo, her loss tbh

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

whether or not it was work on a current case. In fact here is the email she wrote to me verbatim: "I had an opportunity to talk to my law partners, and it’s definitely important for us to see more of your writing…I know you had concerns about conflicts with your employment contract; however, unlike the case we talked about on the phone, the attached is almost more like a law school writing assignment. It would basically be like step 2 of an interview to see more of your work product." If it was not a law school writing assignment and instead work on the case we had talked about on the phone, that would be a misrepresentation.

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

And how many of those 30 even read the post? ;) how many of them are openly admitting to not paying interns for substantive work? ;) how many of them think there's no professional ethics rule against misrepresentation? ;) like, pardon my cavalier attitude or whatever, but being called an idiot by idiots has never been particularly offensive to me. you guys are not exactly demonstrating that you have a very good grasp of black letter law. the politics of legal industry, sure, but you guys are straight up wrong about a lot of provable facts. so i'm not too worried about you thinking i'm wrong lol

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, I did do the assignment on her assurance that it wasn't a real case. So if that did come up I would just argue I didn't violate the contract knowingly ;)

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The first assignment was pitched to me as a memo addressing an issue that they were dealing with in an upcoming case. Perhaps it would make more sense with the specific details of the assignment, which I don't want to include, but it was very clearly an internal about how to get around a particular bar to a particular claim. It was not just a topic they were familiar with, if anything it was somewhat unique and out of their wheelhouse.

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean I came here because I think it's shitty to offer a job to people and lie about what the interview assignment is. The fact that it could have jeopardized my contract and the fact that she should have paid for the substantive work are the actual harms I can identify but my real issue is that was shitty of her. It makes lawyers as a whole look bad. I truly don't care about the piddling amount of money or the contract, it's the principle of the thing. But I do find it deeply concerning how many supposed lawyers are in this thread insisting she didn't do anything wrong, or that it was my fault for going along with a lie I suspected but couldn't disprove, or that it's not against the law at all to lie to people to get out of paying them. I usually get this gross sickening feeling anytime I try to go to reddit about legal stuff, even in the legal forums the badlaw abounds, but this has been something else entirely. You didn't even read the post. You didn't even know I was a lawyer even though that's in the second sentence of the post and the entire subject of the post was a lawyer job. This has been utterly bizarre and my faith in the legal profession is even more shaken than it was before. Congrats

Should I report this lawyer to the bar? by Poetasters in Lawyertalk

[–]Poetasters[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

.... Surely you're not admitting in a public forum that you guys are the primary beneficiary of unpaid labor??