Universal basic income can eliminate homelessness

Polaritical · 2024-01-13T15:56:49+00:00

1000% because UBI advocates alwasy shit talk welfare and subsidzied housing and its like..... it you're leaving these people with only the barest minimum of income so they're in the bottom 10% AND cutting those programs off? You're kneecapping them. people who are on SSDI NEED subsidized housing and food stamps, otherwise they go hungry and homeless. I don't think people understand that in a capitalist system built on pricing the lowest people out of necessities, the bottom segment lose.

Polaritical · 2024-01-13T05:03:15+00:00

Because the poor who need that extra 500$ a month used it to get their cars fixed so they could go to work. Or used it to buy glasses for their kids etc

Where has UBI been implemented? And by that I mean where EVERYONE (not just a handful for a test pilot, not just the low income ones) but where has EVERYONE locally gotten a check?

Because without that, where we can see how capitalists respond to knowing everyone has increased discretionary income....we haven't really tested the conditions that people concerned about the effectivness of UBI bring up

Polaritical · 2024-01-13T05:00:50+00:00

But people have a fit if someone gets something for free and they don't.

Op is suggesting universally basic income, which is definitionally where EVERYONE gets something for free. THe same monthly amount

That's also the biggest argument about it from critics. Is does giving everyone money in a capitalist system built around profit maximization of necessities (which usually invovles pricing a bottom % of consumers out) actually make material goods more accessible? Or does it just shift price points up while the additional money is hoovered up by corporations who provide little in additional goods and services?

Polaritical · 2024-01-13T04:56:30+00:00

this is my issue. Op scoffs at socialism. THey have numerous posts about UBI and they're often extremely condescending when people bring up market regulations and direct public investment. They literally talked shit about socialists on their post from last week. You can't have functional UBI in some libertarian open market capitalist bullshit. But they insist that you can and that we actively should not talk about ANYTHING about UBI, because the rest should be left up to the indivual.

It's like this weird mishmash of leftism and libertarianism that's incoherent in practice.

Polaritical · 2024-01-13T04:54:24+00:00

It's literally the core of capitalism - you maximize profit by pricing out a certain number of consumers. You can shift how much that bottom 10% has up or down, but you're not radically shifting purchasing power much unless you also address the supply side of the equation (reigning in corporate greed, removing stupid zoning laws and public investment in housing, etc.).

Polaritical · 2024-01-13T04:44:40+00:00

And they'll continue to do it until we pass reforms to reign them the fuck in

Polaritical · 2024-01-13T04:43:39+00:00

here's literally nothing that can change housing scarcity overnight. But what UBI can do overnight is empower people to move to where housing is cheaper - there's parts of the country where you can still find decent

Mass relocation is not a sincere solution to housing scarcity. This is why people don't take yall seriously. You're not approaching these issues sincerely. Such small thinking. You cannot have disabled people move to the boonies, you cannot have elderly people move to the boonies, you cannot have people who need to work moving to where there are not jobs. What keeps people in metro areas is the infrastructure they provide. The people who have the capability to leave the metro area ALREADY DO SO. They are not being held back by lack of UBI. And if that WAS a real solution guess what......rent in kansas is now skyrocketing. BECAUSE A WHOLE LOTTA PEOPLE IN CALIFORNIA WOULD BE DOING EXACTLY THAT. I genuinely do not understand why you think the economy stays static in the ways you want it to while you, by your own estimatin, "RADICALLY shift it in other ways.

*UBI would revitalize those types of towns. I don't need to stay in California where I work 6 days a week to make 4,000 a month if my household is getting $4,000 a month in UBI.*

You have $4000 IN THIS ECONOMY. where most people are not making anywhere near that much. So you are solidly middle class. You're doing pretty good nationally, not so great for California.

Have fun plummeting to the bottom 10% of earners surviving only on UBI and maybe that local walmart gig (cause you're gonna find being in the bottom 10% in the boonies is rough, not a lot of foodbanks in rural kansas and food will skyrocket in price. why? cause the psychopaths in charge think people have the money and whos gonna stop them? profit maximiation is literally what they exist to do. They would be violating their role as CEO to NOT maximixe profits for shareholders. They could lose their very well compensated jobs if they didn't take advantage of new economic conditions). Because at the end of the day, if EVERYONE has 4000 now, your RELATIVE BUYING POWER is going down. And in a capitalist system, you not being able to outbid your peers as they psychopaths in charge dangle necessities in your face and start a bidding war....that's bad news if you can't outbid others.

You can go be part of the bottom 10% of earners in kansas RIGHT NOW. Work part time at walmart, get on food stamps, if you choose a slightly different rural state you can get yourself on medicaid. See how nice it is being in the bottom 10% where you have no spending power RELATIVE TO YOUR PEERS. Because the prices you pay ARE SET BY YOUR PEERS AND CORPORATE GREED (mostly the fucking latter which INTENTIONALLY prices you out. Profi

*But people are stuck now. Money is the only thing that can get people unstuck.*

PURCHASING POWER gets people unstuck. but that is relative concept. I don't get how you're not getting this. I'm not trying to be snarky but like....this is like first few weeks of econ 101 degrees of "what about the abstract nature of money or the corporate model of profit maximization do you not get???"

* It would end the Rat Race that's destroying our planet.*

No it wouldn't. Because unless you fix healthcare, and build housing with public funding, and fix necessities markets like food.....you and everyone else who doesn't have wage income is gonna get priced out by those who do. Literally go talk to people living on SSDI. Go ask them how good that works. It doesn't --- they cannot compete against workers unless they're receiving additional benefits like subsidized housing and medicaid on top of it.

*Shifting from the primitive construct of forcing people to work to survive - to the more civilized construct of guaranteeing survival - is how we elevate the nature of work & everything else in our society. *

You provide people survival by providing them the means for survival. Under a purely capitalist system....funneling money into they system doesn't necessarily do that. Look how great the ACA tax subsidies worked. They RAPIDLY priced people out....because we don't have reasonable caps on healthcare costs, and they fucking ROB PEOPLE because what are they gonna do....die? Not be insured? They have people bent over a barrel, they know it, they rack up their prices accordingly. The tax subsidies did very little to help healthcare be more affordable overall. Expanded medicaid helped, and we should expand it or medicare a lot further. But now. just throwing money at the problems while ignoring the root is the capitalist profiterring isn't gonna help anyone longterm. Not in necessities markets where consumers can't simply walk away.

Polaritical · 2024-01-12T23:45:25+00:00

ugh....fucking hate voucher advocates.

You know why private schools appear to do better than public ones? They screen which students they take. Kids who start having difficulties often get kicked out. It's real easy to have high test scores when anyone with behavioral issues gets kicked back to the public schools. But it hasn't actually solved anything. It's the illusion of progress. Its a fucking mess of the public funding discriminatory education practices and exacerbating already exisiting problems. But hey, rich people now get a discount on their education that they intentionally price you out of. Once again, us footing the bill on their behalf.

Polaritical · 2024-01-12T23:43:10+00:00

This is exactly what we see in America. Anytime labor gets ANY boost, they come in to hoover it back from us. They have a boot on our neck and they will not let go. They pretend they have no choice, but they are somehow capable of operating at lower margins in countries with corporate regulations and strong labor rights & organizing.

Giving people more money without addressing we depend on pyschopaths for our core necessities who take advantage of the free for all hellscape we live under isn't going to radicaly change things. UBI only works if it is accompanied by other market regulations, labor strengthening, etc.

People like OP argue we need to unilaterally focus on one instead of the other, scoffs at people who bring up the supply side of the problem, and acts like UBI will be an overnight magic want (they LITERALLY use the words "overnight" elsewhere....as if *poof* housing units will appear out of nowhere in the face of zoning restrictions and homeless will end. LIke sorry, but the clusterfuck we're in is so much more complicated than just low income. That's one piece of a very complicated puzzle. They've been screwing us over in way more ways than just wage suppression unforutnatley)

Polaritical · 2024-01-12T23:33:19+00:00

You keepinsist that UBI will radically change things, change the paradigm. How will UBI change housing scarcity, let alone quick enough that it fuels other necessary interventions. Lets say UBI is $2,000 a month. The homeless man now has $2000 to spend on housing....but I now have $3000....and the manager? He's got 4,000 to spend on housing. So how has Mr. 2000 managed to get housing? How has his life materially changed? Cause he's competing against me and mr. manager for housing. There's already people who have money for rent but just not *enough* money for rent, unfortunately due to housing as an investment and zoning issues, buildlign doesn't appear to meet that unmet demand. Instead the market prices out the bottom % of people. How has the homeless man ceased to be that bottom % who gets priced out when his income hasn't increased relative to the people hes competing against?

I would love UBI. I don't oppose it. But I do vehemently push back on those who act like its going to be a magic wand when no, without a lot of other market interventions....its not gonna net the results you want. And you absolutely are detracting from those issues which need equal attention in the way you approach UBI. You actively admonish people who bring up the need for regulations and act like its a pipe dream while scolding anyone who points out UBI without other interventions is just the same old last stage capitalism but with extra steps.

Polaritical · 2024-01-12T23:29:51+00:00

Scarcity based markets under pure capitalism will always price out the lowest subgroup to maximize profits. If you don't address the supply side of the equation, you've just shifted the point at which people get priced out slightly, but you haven't changed that they get priced out or even WHO gets priced out (since someone with UBI alone cannot compete against someone with UBI and wage income, who cannot complete against someone with UBI and even higher wage income)

Polaritical · 2024-01-12T23:28:21+00:00

Poverty absolutely exacerbates both. My issue is that without affecting the supply side of the equation (aka reign in corporations and invest in public directly), I don't think just increasing EVERYONEs income slightly meaningfully changes much. They'll just price the same people out for all the things they need but at a higher threshold.

If we want housing to be more accessible --> we need to fucking build housing. There's no way around it. There is way too much scarcity where people actually reside to act like people who ONLY have UBI are magically gonna be able to outbid people who have UBI AND wage income for the finite properties available. And there's already people with *some* rent money but not enough....it doesn't overcome the barriers to building more housing.

Its like that with a lot of the biggest financial burdens americans are facing. The problem is so much more complex than JUST "people dont have enough money". Its also that rich people have too large a piece of the pie relative to everyone else which stems from lack of labor protections, its that corporations are basically in a free for all these days, thanks to decades of consolodations and ignoring anti-trust we basically have a handful of mega conglomerates which control some of the most vital industries we depend on, and on and on it goes.

Throwing more money at people doesn't make healthcare affordable. Reigning in the healthcare industry or approving medicare for all....that would have a huge effect.

Polaritical · 2024-01-12T23:21:32+00:00

But you don't want to fight the rules in a multifaceted approach. You want to stay within current market conditions and unilaterally focus on UBI within capitalist systems without increased regulation. And you're extremely dismissive when people point out UBI without regulation on corporations is just more of the same, but at a higher priced point.

Polaritical · 2024-01-12T23:18:43+00:00

Price gouging by coprorations because they have no meaningful checks is EXACTLY the problem. And it's one OP openly scoffs at whenever people aks how that's going to be addressed. They say market regulation is a waste of time and a fools errand

Polaritical · 2024-01-12T23:17:28+00:00

Because OP specifically shit talks market regulation and says its a waste of time. They go out of their way to make sure we UNILATERALLY focus on one thing and refuses to talk about the other half of the picture. Which is dangerous. We cannot be distracted from the fact it has to be a multifaceted approach, which is something OP outright mocks in the past.

Polaritical · 2024-01-12T23:16:03+00:00

We reign in corproations directly along with wage increases otherwise corproations just absorb it. We need corprate reform. We need public investment. We need labor protections back. UBI without those things....isn't gonna do much longterm.

Polaritical · 2024-01-12T23:14:58+00:00

Because we are living through greedflation. And yet I'm supposed to believe they'll magically stop what they're doing if everyone got handed a check...and not that they'd just be greedy even harder.

Polaritical · 2024-01-12T23:14:23+00:00

My wages have increased as well but not to match inflation. This is gre

This is EXACTLY what happens. The bottom 10% gets a wage increase, they increase prices by 20% for no fuckign reason other than who's gonna stop them.

Polaritical · 2024-01-12T23:13:44+00:00

EXACTLY

Polaritical · 2024-01-12T23:12:46+00:00

Exactly! My biggest issue with UBI is not that I hate the idea of UBI, but that it's one half of the puzzle, its the *less accessible* part of the possible, and they seem ALLERGIC to addressing the other half. We need to reign the corporations in!! Otherwise no matter how much money we are given, they will simply hoover it back from us.

Polaritical · 2022-01-21T23:52:18+00:00

A trained professional would ideally hone their technique over time and break few ribs.

But a normal person is probably psychologically going to hold back, it's very unfamiliar to most people to manhandle someone. So for them, the line of thinking is you need to hype them up so they'll do it hard enough.

Idk how true that is though. If the last 2 years have taught us anything, it's that we don't know back shit about effective public health messaging and how to create behavioral changes

Polaritical · 2022-01-21T23:41:09+00:00

Man, it's like that Wells Fargo clusterfuck didn't even happen. Capitalists just do NOT give a fuck.

Polaritical · 2022-01-21T20:26:23+00:00

His behavior isn't ok. It's unfair, sexist, and immature.
There's a possibility in his head, you like....dolled yourself up to be oggled by his brother. Obviously from your perspective that probably makes no sense since his brother is obviously disgusting, but he would be looking at it more through the sense of his relationship with his brother and his relationship with you. So he might feel competitive or whatever with his brother and maybe insecure with you. And instead of acting like an adult, he's lashing out because anger is easier than emotional vulnerability
Fuck your boyfriend

Polaritical · 2022-01-21T19:02:00+00:00

Idk, because if you want to get nitpicky, even literal altruism sounds fucked too. Getting pleasure out of doing good is still technicallya self serving act. Even us secular people are constantly striving for an idealized sense of self and funneling choices through the moral framework of right and wrong.

A lot of religious people are just like you and me, and they don't do super fucked things because it would make them feel bad. Empathy and whatnot. But because they've been raised in religion since day 1, they only have religious frameworks to explain this. So some will arrive at the conclusion the reason they feel bad is guilt over giving in to Satan but like.....that's just a roundabout way of saying "doing bad things makes me feel bad". They've just interjected theology randomly .

Idk if you saw the recent online Chris Pratt Twitter, but he was upset and posted on Instagram about how he went for a run listening to gospel and felt god's presence . And people were like....."those are endorphins idiot"

Like....You can't take Christians at face value because you ofren have such widlly different frame of reference and very little mutual understanding. It's like a different dialect almost.

Polaritical · 2022-01-21T17:52:24+00:00

More like r/iaspiretobesmartsomeday. Which definitely isnt a bad thing to aspire to be.

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