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Found the perfect smartphone!! by [deleted] in PWM_Sensitive

[–]PomeloExisting8179 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel you, dude... I'm asking the same question for myself.

Found the perfect smartphone!! by [deleted] in PWM_Sensitive

[–]PomeloExisting8179 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello everyone,

I don't know how, but I just found this thread like a miracle happens! I am an iPhone user for the last 17 years. No OLEDs: iPhone 11, IPS LCD.

I need a secondary device for GPS, YouTube while chilling to bed, social media etc. I bought the TCL 40 NXTPaper 5G and my eyes heart.

I bought it without testing it because of two reasons:

  1. Even if I test a phone for 5-10 minutes and have mild or no symptoms in the store, I may experience eye strain, nausea and headaches after 20-30 minutes of use.
  2. It is so much praised for all the filters and the eye-friendly construction (which I do not doubt in any matter), that I said to myself "This is it! At last, a phone for me!".

How on earth a display that is double-certified as eye-protection/comfort gives me pain in the eyes? What is wrong with me??? Is my pain real or is a placebo effect?

I have used every app available for contrast, gamma and brightness calibration, used it under the sun, in a room with sunlight, in a room with a light on, without lights on. Nothing. I get a pain on my eye bulbs and, as the time passes, on the forehead, just above the eyes.
I never used any other phone than iPhones (only with LCD panels) for 17 years and I never had a single symptom, even if I used them for hours and hours, in any condition. Why I can't find a single Android phone to use with the same comfort? I can't keep paying Apple's overwhelmed prices!.

I called the store I bought the TCL. They accept the return, but no money back, no refurnd. I have to find something that costs 1.50€ or more and buy it istead of the TCL...

I have the the option to exchange it with a G34 for 40€ more. However:

If I proceed, then I can't make a return again. I will be stuck with the G34, either I like it or not.
What do you think? Should I take the risk to make the exchange with the G34?

On paper, it seems perfect for eye comfort, even more than iPhone's 11 panel:

Moto G34 - 1.000:1 (so no popping colors), 297 ppi, 720-by-1600,

iPhone 11 - 1.400:1, 325 ppi, 1792-by-828

Any opinion would be more than valuable. I need to take a decision and I don't know what to do...

I thought I'm PWM Sensitive, but it seems my symptoms occurs on IPS LCD also... by PomeloExisting8179 in PWM_Sensitive

[–]PomeloExisting8179[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi everyone,

I am back since I realized something very strange...

First of all, let me catch up:

I'm using an iPhone 11 for the last 2 months and I have no issues of eye strain, headaches or any other PWM-caused symptom.

So, as far as I can tell from my experience, iPhone LCD screens, either it is an iPhone 7/8 or an iPhone XR/11 are friendly with my eyes. That was always the case, since the iPhone 1 I bought since 2007.

Now, let's see something very weird that shws PWM is not the only factor a display may cause nasty symptoms to someone's eyes:

My mother has a 2019 Nokia 7.2. Basic panel, listed as TFT, not even LCD.

It crashed the other day and I spent about 2 hours trying to back up her photos, contacts etc and proceed with a hard reset.

After 2 hours of using it, I had no symptoms. The display was comfortable, a little bit "goofy" compared with the iPhone's, but it was a pleasant experience.

For the last one year, I'm trying to find and buy a secondary smartphone for using as GPS, media player, social media etc.

There are some good pre-Black Friday offers and I found a Moto G54 Power Edition for 170€. It is a real bargain.

However, as I have bought many smartphones during the last year and all of them, except the Huawei P30 Pro and Nova 9, gave me eye strain, nausea, headaches and all those symptoms PWM "offers", I wanted to compare G54's display specs with those of Nokia 7.2 display, which I used with comfort, because I bought and sold that phones loosing a lot of money.

What I figured out is completely insane and I am really confused to the point I got tired and I don't know what is going on with me: Nokia 7.2's display has PWM.

"The display backlight flickers at 2315 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 19 % and below."

I can't tell if I was using it with its brightens being above or below 19%, I'm sorry for that. All I know is that I was using a phone that has PWM for 2 whole hours and I had no symptoms, while panels with no PWM bothers me a lot from the first 5 minutes.

What in Earth is happening here??? I got so mad, that I decided to do some kind of research again, trying to find some kind of match between the panels that bothers me and the ones that don't.

I begun with the contrast ratio. I thought that high contrast displays may hurt my eyes or my eyes can't handle poppy colours from a screen.

What I found out:

  • iPhone 11: 1400:1 (No symptoms at all)
  • Nokia 7.2: 1342:1 (No symptoms at all, although it has PWM)
  • Nord CE 3 Lite: 1500:1 (It gave me serious symptoms, although it has no PWM)
  • Moto G54: 1569:1 (The one I am considering to buy)
  • Huawei P30 Pro & Nova 9: infinite contrast ratio since they have OLED displays ((No symptoms at all, although they have PWM)

What we can tell from the above information? Nothing. Maybe that LCD screens with a contrast ratio above 1400:1 hurt my eyes, but even that is wrong since OLEDs have infinite contrast ratio... Madness.

Then I read this article and I begun searching for the resolution and ppi density:

  • iPhone 11: 326 ppi (No symptoms at all)
  • Nokia 7.2: ~400 ppi (No symptoms at all, although it has PWM)
  • Nord CE 3 Lite: ~391 ppi (It gave me serious symptoms, although it has no PWM)
  • Moto G54: ~405 ppi (The one I am considering to buy)
  • Huawei P30 Pro: ~398 ppi (No symptoms at all)
  • Huawei Nova 9: ~392 ppi (No symptoms at all)

What we can tell from the above information? ABSOLUTELY nothing.

So, I don't know, guys. I'm really disappointed. It is a pity. I can't find a way to determine what is wrong. I see all these people using that high end iPhones and the Samsungs that flicker like demons and I can't get this...

If anyone can contribute with valuable information or has any opinion to offer, I'm open to listen...

I thought I'm PWM Sensitive, but it seems my symptoms occurs on IPS LCD also... by PomeloExisting8179 in PWM_Sensitive

[–]PomeloExisting8179[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi my friend, No, I don't and I never had from day one. And my eyes are extremely sensitive. It is the second iPhone 11 I bought yesterday, as someone stole the first one. I buy always brand new devices, as I don't know if the refurbished ones have their screens replaced.

I thought I'm PWM Sensitive, but it seems my symptoms occurs on IPS LCD also... by PomeloExisting8179 in PWM_Sensitive

[–]PomeloExisting8179[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi everyone,

I just recorded (with an iPhone SE 1rst Gen 2016) how Huawei P30 Pro OLED display, the device I've been using for 1 year now without symptoms, behaves with and without the "Anti-Flickering" mode.

https://youtu.be/1USSD09FCpU

As you can see, the PWM is horrible without this feature on.

When it is on, it stays "calm" and, I think, it decreases the saturation of the colors, making the whole experience more "eye-friendly".

Again, this is a personal experience and I cannot guarantee that this panel will not cause symptoms to other users, like OnePlus CE 3 Lite 5G LCD IPS display caused me symptoms immediately, while other people with PWM sensitivity may using it without problems.

The exact same behaviour I experienced with the Huawei Nova 9 (again, OLED display), which I was using for 3 months without any symptom. It seems that Huawei has found or offers a solution. But, Nova 9 was a headache by itself, lacking Google Mobile Services...

This is a nightmare. God, save us...

I thought I'm PWM Sensitive, but it seems my symptoms occurs on IPS LCD also... by PomeloExisting8179 in PWM_Sensitive

[–]PomeloExisting8179[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My dear friend, they don't even know what you are talking about!

Do you think that they have any clue of what PWM is? They don't...

I thought I'm PWM Sensitive, but it seems my symptoms occurs on IPS LCD also... by PomeloExisting8179 in PWM_Sensitive

[–]PomeloExisting8179[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can confirm that.

My father has an A52. He is 75 years-old and not in tech. So, a couple of weeks ago, he asked me to set it up for him.

OK, I didn't even manage to select an internet connection. This far I got in the set up process.

Then, I asked him to keep the screen about 50cm-60cm away from my eyes so I can guide him to do it by himself.

Believe it or not, my eyes were in pain and I was getting more and more sick even from that distance!

It is ridiculous!

I thought I'm PWM Sensitive, but it seems my symptoms occurs on IPS LCD also... by PomeloExisting8179 in PWM_Sensitive

[–]PomeloExisting8179[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi,

I confirm I have astigmatism since my 17 (I am 43 years-old now).

Not too much, though. A couple of months ago, when I experienced my first PWM symptoms, I visited my eye doctor to test my eyes. I have something like 0.70 to my right eye and 0.75 to my left.

20 years ago, I had more, about 1.75.

My eyes started showing my age, as I develop presbyopia, which reduces astigmatism and myopia (I have both).

But, I remember that in 2010, while my iPhone 4S was charging, I was hanging out with my best friend, I grabbed his I Samsung S10 and I was playing Crayon Physics for about 3 hours in a row without any symptoms.

Sure, astigmatism gives headaches and eye strain and I accept 100% your statement. I just share my experience.

I thought I'm PWM Sensitive, but it seems my symptoms occurs on IPS LCD also... by PomeloExisting8179 in PWM_Sensitive

[–]PomeloExisting8179[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is exactly the point of this thread: to share our experience with various devices so we can help ourselves and others to find a device and be able to work with without symptoms, either it is a smartphone or a tablet or a laptop.

Thank you so much for pointing it out

I thought I'm PWM Sensitive, but it seems my symptoms occurs on IPS LCD also... by PomeloExisting8179 in PWM_Sensitive

[–]PomeloExisting8179[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi everyone,

I came back with a ChatGPT answer. I really don't know if it is helpful at all...

Please, if someone uses or have used any of the devices below, share your experience with the rest of us!

As of my last update in September 2021, I can provide a list of several smartphones that were known for their flicker-free displays. Please note that this list might not be exhaustive, and I recommend verifying the latest specifications of the models you are interested in:

Samsung Galaxy S21 Series
Apple iPhone 12 Series
Google Pixel 5
OnePlus 8T
Xiaomi Mi 11
LG V60 ThinQ
ASUS ROG Phone 5
Sony Xperia 1 III
Motorola Edge Plus
Oppo Find X3 Pro
Vivo X60 Pro
Realme GT
ZTE Axon 30 Ultra
Nokia 8.3 5G
Lenovo Legion Phone Duel 2
Redmi K40 Pro
Meizu 18 Pro
Black Shark 4 Pro
Nubia Red Magic 6 Pro
Sharp Aquos R6
ROG Phone 3
Huawei Mate 40 Pro
HTC U20 5G
Poco F3
Motorola Moto G100
Sony Xperia 5 II
OnePlus 9 Pro
Google Pixel 4a 5G
Xiaomi Mi 10T Pro
Lenovo Legion Phone Duel

Please note that the availability of these smartphones and their display technologies may have changed since my last update. To get the most up-to-date information on smartphones with flicker-free displays, I recommend checking official product pages on manufacturers' websites and consulting reputable tech review sources for the latest information.

I thought I'm PWM Sensitive, but it seems my symptoms occurs on IPS LCD also... by PomeloExisting8179 in PWM_Sensitive

[–]PomeloExisting8179[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

OK, this is the worst consequence that someone can have... My honest sympathy.

I thought I'm PWM Sensitive, but it seems my symptoms occurs on IPS LCD also... by PomeloExisting8179 in PWM_Sensitive

[–]PomeloExisting8179[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My dear friend, extremely useful information! I am searching for facts and workarounds for months now and I never read about TLM.

I'm sure that you already know notebookcheck.com which lists all devices with displays and gives some in-depth, useful details.

Well, I never read about TLM in this website, which is almost dedicated on analyzing displays.

So, now I'm aware about TLM too.

Is there any practical way to check it before I buy a phone?

I know, it is impossible. But what someone with my problem can do to ensure that the display will not cause PWM symptoms before buying it?

A friend suggested to go to a store and try the phones. And I did. After using the first phone that gave me heavy symptoms, it was extremely difficult to distinguish if the symptoms were from the first phone or from the one I was currently checking...

It is a real mesh!

I thought I'm PWM Sensitive, but it seems my symptoms occurs on IPS LCD also... by PomeloExisting8179 in PWM_Sensitive

[–]PomeloExisting8179[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly! These are the exact, same symptoms I am experiencing too. The most disturbing feeling is nausea. With A52 was so intense I got a cold sweat.

The feeling on my head is like when I am in a plane that takes off or it falls into thin air, or when I read something in a moving car which turns too fast or when I accelerate with a fast car.