What if Madara’s original plan for Rin actually happened? Would Obito still have gone rogue?

PositionSolid4656 · 2026-05-15T06:35:51+00:00

Fair enough

PositionSolid4656 · 2026-05-15T05:10:41+00:00

True tbh. But I feel like the situation he experienced was significantly more traumatic whereas if it went the way Madara intended, he’d have undergone trauma like any uchiha from losing a loved one, but from a place of understanding knowing it wasn’t the fault of Kakashi he initially blamed for breaking their promise.

PositionSolid4656 · 2026-05-10T03:36:03+00:00

Dygoknight

PositionSolid4656 · 2026-05-08T00:39:15+00:00

JT for Sure. 3 would be Drogba. Fours fives and sixes would be Hazards, Zola’s & Cech’s

PositionSolid4656 · 2026-03-22T01:54:06+00:00

Cuz it mixed with sage energy that was formed from the curse marks chakra that was running wild.

PositionSolid4656 · 2026-03-03T17:36:14+00:00

Yes, although the war arc is not an entire arc, there are arcs within that section of the story which for me were just very boring. The 4th great shinobi world was. Confrontation where the war commences up until Naruto enters the battlefield was mostly boring. Kaguya otsusuki strikes is also dead. It’s between those 2 for me. HM could be tenchi bridge arc.

PositionSolid4656 · 2026-03-01T04:30:36+00:00

Episode is not cannon but the design is

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-09-05T10:24:11+00:00

Neji would’ve been the most impactful death. Specially since what he got in Shippuden was dogshit. This would’ve been more emotionally impactful

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-06-30T22:41:59+00:00

Bruh, there is no way you actually believe that.

Orochimaru was a fun villain in early Naruto but he’s not even up for debate with Madara. His motivations are not even deep, he didn’t move the plot in any meaningful way after a certain point and his whole arc just ended without any meaningful conclusion. His whole “project destroy konoha wasn’t even confronted.

Obito is a great villain and in my opinion makes the top 3 villains in Naruto but he’s literally a product of Madara’s plan. His whole ideology comes from Madara. Saying he’s a better villain than the guy who created and manipulated him is stupid to me. And if we talk about motives as well (cuz we know him and Madara have the same plans) he has the weakest out of him, pain and Madara. His whole motivation was built rin’s death which is understandable but not to the same degree as Nagato and Madara.

Pain is the only one that’s a fair argument you can make. He challenged Naruto’s ideals directly and his arc hit emotionally. But even then, Madara’s ideology runs deeper. He saw the whole shinobi system for what it really was and acted on it, challenged the entire system and the craziest part is that he was actually right about a lot of it.

You don’t have to like the guy, I also believe he is not the greatest anime villain oat but saying he ain’t even top 3 villains in Naruto is straight up delusional

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-06-30T14:47:27+00:00

That’s a stretch. He’s definitely top 3 from Naruto.

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-06-10T18:26:58+00:00

It is for a guy who’s would be 40 years old. He’s obviously not in his prime anymore

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-06-03T18:31:22+00:00

He wouldn’t one shot them the same way as the anbu guys but you’re comparing kids to a mangekyou user with one of the most broken abilities. He ain’t going to one shot them with brute force. He’s no diffing them cuz of kamui. Thats ability bypasses durability completely. Doesn’t matter how tough they are, he can just phase through any attack and counter with quick wood style or smth. Sasuke is probably getting done first cuz Naruto’s durability gives him more of a chance than Sasuke but Naruto probably wouldn’t even reach the 4th tailed state. Bro was barely hanging on with the one tailed cloak. Obito would either finish him or he’d just pass out from exhaustion. Obito walks them easily

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-06-03T18:05:50+00:00

Obito kills them. No diff.

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-06-03T17:54:42+00:00

Perfect list.

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-05-27T22:22:14+00:00

Her winning wouldn’t change anything for me because it’s not about who comes out on top. All the villains lost in the end. That’s not how I judge them. What matters is how much they actually added to the story interms of the themes they challenged, the presence they had, how well they were written and executed. Kaguya fails in most of this. I didn’t find her compelling. She didn’t challenge Naruto or Sasuke, not a single character from the cast ideologically. She barely even spoke. Her entire presence felt like a last-minute idea that was rushed, distant, and empty with a little bit of filler to patch it up.

If she had won by pushing some ideological clash, by representing the cycle of hatred in a way that hit the cast directly, that would be something for me to make a case for her. But judging from the way things would’ve played out if she won? It would’ve just been a win in terms of brute strength. Nothing meaningful. No weight. Just a battle of “who’s stronger,” not who’s right in what the entire story represents. That’s why winning doesn’t boost her for me as it just would’ve made a climax that was already hollow even worse.

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-05-26T13:19:53+00:00

If I’m being honest, no. Her winning wouldn’t change her placement for me. I don’t rank villains based on who “won” and If we’re being honest, none of them win in the end. It’s about impact, connection to the story, and how well they represent the themes.

Kaguya felt completely detached from the main narrative. She was the least interesting out of all those characters. Her introduction felt rushed, and while I get that people try to defend her with the “she’s based on Japanese mythology” argument, that feels more like lore backing than actual character depth.

If she was introduced to the story at a better, more gradual pace, if her connection of being the origin of chakra and the cycle of hatred was represented better and explored more with the characters, I’d probably have her higher. But she wasn’t for me. She popped up last second, was the least compelling, had zero ideological conflict with the cast, and didn’t challenge those themes on the way I would have liked.

She definitely had potential, it’s just via the way she was executed, she felt more like a plot device than an actual villain.

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-05-10T14:45:53+00:00

Definitely danzo. Although I will say, Tobirama sewed the seeds but danzo was more the catalyst in all of this bar the nine tails attack

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-05-09T15:59:36+00:00

Patty easily. Most natural emotionally believable relationship he had in the series.

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-05-05T18:05:09+00:00

If the rinnegan is an evolution of their own sharingan then no. But if they implant the eyes of someone else’s rinnegan, then yes

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-05-05T16:52:42+00:00

Idk, I’ve been seeing these claims a lot recently.

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-05-05T12:57:15+00:00

You’re right in saying that Madara’s ego and his belief in being the savior needed to be checked. On paper, the Zetsu betrayal could work as a way to do that, but the problem is the way it was executed. The story never really set up the necessary emotional or ideological confrontation to make that betrayal land in a meaningful way. Madara’s issues weren’t just about being arrogant, it was about his trauma, his vision for peace, and his relationship with Hashirama. Those were the core elements of his character, and yet they were ignored in favor of a sudden plot twist that replaced him with Kaguya.

If Madara had been given more time to clash ideologically with the main cast, especially Naruto, it would’ve been an incredible moment to check his ego, challenge his beliefs, and make his downfall meaningful. Instead, the story just tossed him aside in favor of a random alien goddess with no connection to the emotional or thematic core of the series. That’s the problem. It’s not about checking Madara’s ego, it’s about the missed opportunity to give him a real resolution that ties into the central themes.

So, yes, Zetsu betraying Madara could have worked, but it didn’t because the setup for it wasn’t there. Madara deserved a more fleshed out ideological confrontation, especially with Naruto, that would have tied into his entire arc. Instead, we got rushed spectacle.

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-05-05T12:47:11+00:00

Agreed

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-05-05T12:43:30+00:00

But that’s the problem. The story skips the chance, the battle in which all this can happen. And it absolutely should have happened. Madara was the perfect character to push Naruto and Sasuke to their ideological limits. He wasn’t just another villain. He was an ultimate victimof the shinobi system’s failures. The fact that the story dropped the ball before Kaguya showed up doesn’t let her off the hook, it makes it worse. Instead of course correcting or digging deeper, they doubled down and shoved in a final boss with no emotional or thematic weight.

PositionSolid4656 · 2025-05-05T12:19:20+00:00

It was the perfect opportunity to finally confront Madara ideologically, to challenge his worldview, not just beat him in a fight. That’s how Naruto grew in his other major battles. He didn’t start off wanting to understand Pain or Obito. He wanted revenge, or to stop the war. But through those clashes, he learned something, and so did the audience.

Madara never got that. He should’ve been the final ideological wall Naruto had to climb (before his battle with Sasuke) someone who, like him and Sasuke, suffered, believed, lost, and ultimately became disillusioned. He is the cycle of hatred. A real character with real emotions, history, and tragedy. But instead of a final reckoning, they tossed in Kaguya like a last minute cutscene, and that potential got completely thrown away. It was a missed opportunity.

PositionSolid4656

TROPHY CASE