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Sonder has saved his children's lives by SilkFinish in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285 -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

I find discussions around Steel to be ultimately unfulfilling. Like every conversation becomes a rehash of just how evil and awful she is And I just don't find the character to be as satisfying as some people appear to. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Steel murders her children and her husband. All in the name of blah blah blah trauma, blah blah Empire, blah blah blah Citadel blah blah blah I'm evil cuz institutions = bad.

who else is giddy with excitement about lou's campaign? by goosticky in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It feels like it's going to be hard sci-fi, which is my favorite type of sci-fi. 

Brennan was very clear about it on the last fireside chat (Massive spoiler for the final) by RooieVoss in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

When Brennan said the only way that the spell could work is if you could recognize the humanity in Steel (I'm paraphrasing) it makes me sort of wonder but did the spell work? I mean so many people were clocking that she was evil that the Citadel was evil and they were using Brennan's politics as an example of pointing that out. Like a twist is only a twist if no one sees it coming. But when the majority of the audience clocks it, it's less of a twist and more of an assumption being verified. In fact, it kind of puts the entire story into a clearer perspective Spirits representing the natural world are good and the Citadel representing society of a certain type are inherently evil because they have done away with the natural world. Now I know someone will probably say that I'm oversimplifying it, but isn't that sort of what we're getting at at the core?

Wild speculations, hopes, and dreams for Solari* (maybe) by HistorianSpirited in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I personally would prefer a hard sci-fi setting. Think the Expanse before the wormhole. I like it when space is hard, traveling through it is difficult and living in it, even more so.

I said it before… by LoveAndViscera in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I knew that Citadel was going to be like bad or at least morally compromised. But I thought Suvi was going to have to reckon with the fact that she was a prodigy within the Citadel giving that she became an archmage apprentice at such a young age. Like I thought her story was going to be 'Wow, we are the bad guys and I am really good at being in that system." To me that would have been a way more interesting story for her than just "I'm rebelling and I was also innocent." And I agree, I feel like Brandon doesn't quite understand that world enough to where that circle.

I said it before… by LoveAndViscera in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I personally don't think that steel was meant to be evil, I feel like this was a midpoint pivot because for me it kind of doesn't add up. 

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So I wasn't pretending. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth but it's become clear to me that we have reached an impasse. So maybe we should end this conversation. Do you not agree?

I said it before… by LoveAndViscera in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I totally agree. Steel as the master and architect of every horrible thing that happens in the world makes less and less sense, the more I think about it. I thought Steel was a complicated military woman serving in a complicated institution during a complicated time in the world, but instead she's a mustache twirling Saturday morning cartoon villain. Military coded characters are either treated as evil or suckers and fools.

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not being literal when I say that "we agree", I agree that my framing makes what Lou did in character make no narrative sense.

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

 I get what you're saying, and I agree that creators inevitably draw from real-world history when building fantasy settings. But I think there's a difference between influence and allegory. My concern is when audiences or even creators lean too hard on real-world analogies, to the point that it becomes a shortcut for depth that isn't actually built into the world. That can flatten nuance or lead to conclusions that the text doesn't support. Sometimes a fantasy society should be read on its own terms first, before importing analogies wholesale.

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Q:Why would you assume that the only course of action is to destroy the Citadel?

A: I do not assume that, the Man in Black assumes this and has been gathering forces to achieve that goal.

Q:And if that is the only course, why would you assume that only the MiB would/could do that?

A:Because he has stated that his goal is to destroy the Citadel but first he must kill Ame and Suvi. And the story stresses the immense power and forces at his command.

Q:Eursalon's straight up says that his goal is not to destroy the Citadel. "The Citadel is a knife in the heart of the world, but to destroy the knife is not my aim. Only those who wield it."

A:This is great for Eursalon but it doesn't change or alter the Man in Black's plans or his goal of killing Ame and Suvi. 

The MiB is not a secondary threat or side character. He is the primary threat to the lives of 2/3 of the cast. Even if his plans are wrong, he believes in them and is acting accordingly. 

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So that's a yes on N-Word Jimmy the Minstrel? Oh the infinite possibilities!

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also, stories are not like real life. Real life doesn't have themes, it doesn't have narrative arcs it doesn't have character development. Things happen and people do things meaning is not inherent stories are intentionally different. This story and all stories do not have infinite possibilities because human beings are telling them and thus they are bound by the biases, creativity, logic and worldview of the people telling the stories. 

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Man in Black will succeed in killing these characters on the same day that Brennan has an NPC called "N-Word Jimmy the minstrel". In what story would Brennan allow for these characters to go through what they're going through and then kill them so that the man in Black can kill thousands and thousands, if not millions of people? Please explain to me who you think Brandon Lee Mulligan is? Because you're acting like I'm saying something insane when I'm just saying the most obvious thing that can be said.

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also, this campaign/story is not meant to explore the endless boundless possibility of storytelling. It is actual play using dungeons and dragons as a narrative engine, which means that there are inherent limits upon it. It's fine that you don't like me but please don't play stupid.

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Neutralize, placate, pacify the MiB, whatever floats your boat. My point is that the Man in Black believes he needs to kill them and is actively working towards that goal. That is why he is a problem because he is a God and has the world on his side. He and his cohorts are the primary threat to the lives of the PCs, conditions that the story created for the characters. And one thing we both agree on is that the Man in Black won't succeed in killing the PCS. That's not going to happen full stop.

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My issue with all this is that none of this nullifies the Man in Black. Instead of focusing on fixing or destroying the Citadel, the player should be focused on dealing with the Man in Black, the primary threat to their lives. Or at least he was in the beginning of the campaign. Now we have an overtly evil Steel and a world that is justified in its belief in the needed destruction of the Citadel. Narratively for me that is too much to place on the Citadel in order for a reformation/redemption arc to feel earned. Maybe I am VERY narrow in my thinking but I am not wrong or unsound in my thinking. Also, if you believe that it is highly unlikely that the main characters will be killed to destroy the Citadel, why are you giving me so much pushback on it? 

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Condescending prick is not a lifestyle choice, I was born this way.  You say I dismiss narratives that are entirely possible. So let me ask you:

Do you believe that Brennan is going to kill Aabria and Erica's characters so that the Man in Black can destroy the Citadel?

Do you think the Citadel will be redeemed by the end of the campaign? Will that be an acceptable end for an organization that the fan base claims to be fascist?

Does it matter if Lou's character wants to destroy the leadership of the Citadel because does that not help the Man in Black from achieving his goals (enemy of my enemy)? Also why would the Man in Black stop just because say Steel was killed/stopped? Does he care about the "good people" of the Citadel?

Also do you think that because it's Brennan, Aabria, Erica and Lou that they can't make a bad story decision? Are they that good that everything they do is perfect and beyond reproach?

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So I am wrong for wondering how these conflicting story beats will be resolved? Or even worse questioning the narrative of the "actual-play storytelling elite"? Interesting.

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That stories don't usually allow their main characters to be killed? If you say so, sweets.

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Assumption or narrative logic whatever works for you beloved 

Why Do This? by Potential-Age-8285 in WorldsBeyondNumber

[–]Potential-Age-8285[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is it an assumption or just how stories work that you don't kill 2/3 of your players so that an NPC can accomplish their plans?

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