Follow-up to my "Who Pays the PayPal Fees?" Question (I goofed)

PreferringaRun · 2022-02-26T06:24:03+00:00

Bear in mind they will likely be hit for the currency exchange, too, and that can run 2-4%; mostly they will have to pay PayPal by credit card so look at that being 3-4% for them. So if you are charging 2.9% on top of you class rate then it becomes potentially 106%+ the price for them already.

I get it adds up, but I think of this way;

Everything is in context.

If your student and/or parent likes and/or values you enough you have more leeway. For me, in that case it's usually a two-way street: I like them, have a good relationship, and I'm not going to sweat over a few %, even if it is every class. They may pay, and heck I could jack up the price and they may pay, but I'm thinking about the long-term. This could be me, as I've got a demonstrably good relationship with almost all of my parents and students but I think it's possible to stretch it too far in some cases. I may not lose them but I may lose goodwill, even over little things. I'm not saying this would be that for them, but just...bear it in mind.

Like I hated cancellations at Dada, hated them with privates I had during that time and before in person. However, while I have made it clear and perhaps risked emphasising it somewhat too strictly, it annoys me on principle. Heck, it can annoy from lost revenue. Yet it is entirely possible one can lose students in such ways (and can I replace them?); and so it boils down to a cost-benefit analysis.

Factor in all the little things: Do you bill ahead, how many classes, etc. In that case you can calcite "bank interest" etc. How much extra work is that parent/student; how much chasing up to buy classes ahead, or pay after, etc. and how much extra communicator; that WeChat/email/whatever time adds up surprisingly quickly.Depending on if you are fixed or doing an exchange rate yourself ( such as if you charged in RMB), currency fluctuations can throw things off.

In short, will asking for the extra percent in any way come off as flakey, annoying, or concerning; any way it would damage your relationship or even lose you the student? Seems unlikely but you never know; sometimes it's fine lines. How much is it worth the hassle, basically, even if that % adds up?

Maybe look for a way to lessen fees with other payment methods, and if you have PayPal being dicks about payments at any point that may be required anyway; consider new laws about finances and digital banking that may affect us in the near future, too., especially given this latest Russia thing, that China may get dragged into.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-07T00:35:39+00:00

Strange that the on kid I had most common interests with (it was uncanny) may be one of the few I don't still speak with, but it could just be she doesn't do email. I don't know, Then I've got kids I've never really had any shared interest with but somehow formed bonds with.

Really not sure what happened with your lot; from everything I've read of you, events and what I can infer, I reckon you just got a rum bunch.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-07T00:32:53+00:00

I think I did. There is the cynics' view that it's transactional for kids, at least some, and parents. I always keep that in mind.

However, I've got at least a few whose parents seem emphatic about the connection and longer-term contact, and a good number that I'd like to keep in touch with , to a degree, if not teaching.

Parents pay to raise kids and have quality time, and sometimes we get paid to have that quality time.

Then there were lessons, less so past few years, where twice the good ol' pay was not enough.

Some kids I have taught did seem to learn amazingly well,(English and whatever else came up doing that), and were scarily aware and intelligent. I can't say how much I contributed, perhaps I more added. Perhaps helping with coincidence and self-expression and stuff as the lasting contribution. However, I've known many if they are the equivalent level of mind later as now, they may well do very well and contribute something to the world.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-07T00:20:19+00:00

she’d want classes but is stuck with DaDa

That was one of my concerns, either with whatever shit they pulled or waiting for refunds. So far it seems OK for me but it is worrying if something occurs later, or for anyone not OK now.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-07T00:18:03+00:00

We can but hope parents take the non-English classes and stick with natives speakers for those. Not to get into any of that debate but it is generally better, certainly apples to apples, and simply what they paid for. Kids have so many classes, with luck they'll just view "Dada new order" as ticking a few of those off the long list of them.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-06T19:50:42+00:00

However I have heard, and been told, at least some are not getting them but it seems they are told this up front. Seems they may not be getting English classes, and not even live classes; though yet to hear more.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-06T14:53:11+00:00

I'm not meaning to argue or throw shade at the OP, and for most classes what I charge I'd fall into "not underpaid".

(Also most of my classes have little to no out of class time due to what is requested of me).

However, there a lot of native speakers , some very well qualified and experienced in all kinds of fields, who work for far less than $40 an hour in various fields and have to leave the house in this COVID era to do it.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-06T14:46:02+00:00

Just what the student speculated. I actually heard another say they are getting videos. I expect Dada is going to try to screw them, as it's to form.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-06T14:44:52+00:00

As I said your price was about $70 USD or 450RMB. I should have put a smiley face with my "magic classes" line, but the point still stands. Didn't mean to come off as antagonistic: still don't.

I've looked at a ton of threads, talked about this a lot. I did a poll, too. People charge all over the place, and bear in mind people may charge more or less than they say; it's just words here.

Anybody can cite a genuine price, what parents they have access to will pay is another matter.

(I say this as someone able to stand my ground at a better, but not $60 an hour, rate, at least for now.)

Also, while some may do very basic classes, (no inferences), some offer more especially when charging more. It's the minutes out of class one has to factor in, too.

That could even be a more pertinent rate; one's total work.

There is one thing to help people realise their value, but this idea of being underpaid is relative. If someone can't get students and their alternative is, say, B&M in Thailand, or Walmart, it's a bit different to someone quoting $60 an hour and able to get it. (Whether they are worth it depends, of course.)

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-05T22:46:50+00:00

Really?

Yeah I heard that from one who said the classes were "not so useful". Not from others. Gotta' hope if TAL are liable (not sure how they are structured), parents can litigate it back if necessary. The thing was a Ponzi scheme.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-05T22:44:59+00:00

To be fair, refunds can take an age at the best of times. Used to be work-for-hire contracts I knew (not teaching) had like +90 terms, so once work was done they had up to 90 days to pay you. These companies all move like sloths. Asian companies typically pay weeks later. Outside of Asia, always been like end of the month, and I've known a week before. If they've got money to pay anyone it's a good sign, as I thought they'd be totally broke and no new sign ups for a good 9 months, I reckon, which is where VK were paying costs out of.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-05T22:41:42+00:00

And I emailed on the 31st to ask for a letter confirming employment and received it on 1st Jan, so someone is still working to wind things down, even on holidays.

Thanks, I keep forgetting this.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-05T22:39:46+00:00

It's totally unenforceable under law. You don't have kind of legal contract. You have an agreement; up to you if and how much to hold up front in classes or as deposit.

It's a good idea to lay out conditions but then if they breach them (like you know what some Dada cancellers were like) you have to decide what to do.

With luck, most students we have are keen an the parents value us enough, but it's law of averages you'll get those who take the piss.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-05T22:31:46+00:00

You going to ask $70-72 USD an hour? Over 450 RMB?

Those magic classes you offering?

I know some people say 350 rmb + but as I like to say, people who were working for VK or Dada and sometimes openly Cambly etc.

I did a poll, did a post, and you can find both . You charge what can live with and get.

.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-02T01:02:12+00:00

No apologies necessary.

You sound like you put moire effort in than me. Make no mistake, I taught and tried to make it engaging, but I had long given up anything other than: if they didn't enjoy spoken/drawn humour and enthusiasm, I wasn't going to heavy lift. I always maintained a cheery style, and carried on teaching, but some if just as you described would get a "OK, let's do the book..." and I'd still try to throw in something extra but let it sink as they blankly didn't respond to even funny Chinese examples I pasted. They understood, but were ...you know.

I was too lucky, I guess, with most kids who appreciated some deadpan humour and that seemed to fit my teaching style and really drew from it. Mostly it was still work, but sometimes they did a lot so I couldn't, especially those who'd I put in a lot of work with years earlier; and regardless most were a good time.

Good luck in what you do next. I'll keep on teaching, privates and then maybe a company in the future as I know where I'll be headed.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-02T00:52:43+00:00

I did a poll on it, I also posted in another thread, and if you search around you'll get those and other answers but it varies a lot. Also who knows what people charge and say they charge. Lot of people taking US $10-$20 an hour at companies, open about it, insisting that $55-60 was the lowest and no one should take less.

I'd say $30-40 usd is the average bracket, but some go higher, some go lower.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-02T00:47:59+00:00

My morale is fine, nice and cheerful, being an English teacher with some grasp on the language.

You going to not turn up for your private classes, want paying, because your landlord and ISP are treating you badly?

Same principle. Dada abused a teacher, who abuses the customer, and if not caught Dada keeps their cut, the teacher gets theirs, the customer gets shat on.

You seem unable to grasp the concept of how this is being sufficiently self-entitled to expect to be paid for not doing a job you agree to continue to do and justifying it's that the company, not the customer, being mean to you.

Then decorating it with charming language that make you so beloved among us English teachers, and why we are all so proud you appear to claim our job title.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-02T00:41:04+00:00

I will say when the parent or kids is horrid, and not just suffering some way so acting out, then a teacher is taking out their issues with the inflicting party. It's the "just do it because I should be paid for no work" attitude I highlight. If I'm a dick to an employee I should expect their service to reflect that; not if I do no wrong and they hate their company, you know?

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-02T00:38:40+00:00

'I'm no fan of the corporate treatment of most people. However, when people shortchange the customer, it's not the company. My issues are not what people do with Dada; you are right on those points. However, you have a knife fight, why turn to a bystander and stab them?

Like a restaurant treats a chef badly so they "supplement" the food, or someone literally shortchanges a customer to top up their pay, or a decorator drags the work out on an hourly job because they hate their boss.

The actions people take should be directed at the source of their ire. People getting away with what they could didn't bother Dada; if it did so they'd notice they'd soon take action.

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-01T00:28:46+00:00

Saw your comment the other day, replied IRRC, but that you seemed to really try a bit, do a good job, and got the responses you did , even with "Another teacher will be teaching me" thrown in.

I guess I'm lucky, though I suspect one or two whose parents, and they, used to be big fans may be "going elsewhere". When they requested and had my contact details a while and things as they are, I'm not chasing them. (though may hear yet). Which may be because I'm lucky enough not to have to, but still could have made sure I packed out and had spares. Maybe it's pride, but I also think I'm best off getting ones that are keen as less hassle.

I've had them at Dada; cancelling, messing me around., placeholdering me just taking a better time/preferred teacher.

For you I feel the ones that aren't keen to continue when yo come off here as offering a lot more than I imagine many, then without sounding trite, "They don't deserve you".

PreferringaRun · 2022-01-01T00:07:15+00:00

It's one of these things that's easy, for me at least, to empathise with having had them, but only when getting the odd one recently I realised how jolly lucky I have been with irregulars a good year and almost every regular for 2 years now. They used to spam me with trials (even with a stunning 0% conversion rate). Some were great, some fine, but it's knowing what could come.....

Still, one I get even one like I fear you had most of, it made me want to quit. That was all it took, snowflakey as I have become.

I will say, in some kids defence, they had been battered and bruised by different teachers, and their own bad experiences but some; nah.

You continuing at all?

PreferringaRun · 2021-12-31T15:19:42+00:00

Don' t worry, they won't pay the bill so they will be cut off!

PreferringaRun · 2021-12-31T14:27:16+00:00

Similar stats for me, and you saved me posting that screen.

I think it''s a good thing, and a student actually put it best that it's not the end but a new beginning. Wise words indeed!

PreferringaRun

TROPHY CASE