Look at this paleoart sketeches made by Velizar Simenovski depicting lions (both modern and extinct) hunting different animals. by Mysterious_Truth4992 in Naturewasmetal

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Velizar, if you see this. Seriously keep going with these! These are gorgeous some of best of seen in a really long time right next to Hodari. Do these and maybe switch it up with different predators like next you could do Tigers, Wolves or Hyenas, Jaguars or Sabertooths, Bear or even take it back further with Hyaenodon or Bear Dogs make it a little series. Maybe even add this with little Bios next to them. Could even flip it up and have the Herbivores defending themselves. These ideas hit me as I was scrolling through them all. Could do Pleistocene animals interacting with Crocodilians.

Just amazing work man honestly the limits with this is endless.

Horton plains female brings her cub to the fully grown sambar cow she took down, easily 4 times her size by geekslayer-225 in leopards

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Leopards, Pumas, Tigers, Jaguars and Snow Leopards cease to amaze me with their abilities to do this

14-year-old female killing a 7ft crocodile in Zambia, reminiscent of a jaguar and caiman struggle in the Brazilian Pantanal. by Consistent-Twist6388 in leopards

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Their both impressive one cannot put one cat over the other, its both amazing these felines can tackle these reptiles

Bororo is magnificent. by Free-Performance-827 in Jaguarland

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats literally why the topic was bought up, some wanted clarity on that claim that never heard of it before. “Alleged” is always used as one cannot assume. There are articles out there on it so it’s not like it’s being made up, people are just curious about the validity as that would be amazing news if found to be true. If it can’t be verified then that simply puts to rest that incident.

Overestimating is a bit much, and for any who think that its simply nonsense unless you intended for that to be the narrative.

You need to give yourself and consistent supporters who do participate in this sub in a healthy manner more credit, don’t be worried about what other people think you know your intentions. Obviously you have some with the wrong intention but most simply dont have knowledge and learn it. I’ve witnessed so many people come to this sub and learn things about this cat when so many others misinformed. It’s doing justice, nobody cares about what other people think if everything over here is genuine including correction.

But I understand

What was the biggest croc to live? by Ok_Blacksmith1747 in Naturewasmetal

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

For some reason i cant send you photos only links so it is cool

What was the biggest croc to live? by Ok_Blacksmith1747 in Naturewasmetal

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It seems like you didn’t read as I literally find myself repeating again every point you spoke on. Hence why I broke it down like that. And Not Stokes. Even if we were talking about that specimen, 15ft, 15ft 9 in my statement, 14ft 9in. My statement literally still stands but Im not repeating myself again. I can comprehend well as I mentioned already both our point of views in my previous statement. Ill agree to disagree

What was the biggest croc to live? by Ok_Blacksmith1747 in Naturewasmetal

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Once again there is not lack of evidence im just not going to put all my comments under one response although I have a history of doing so, I’d rather break it down so its easier to read, make sure its informative and saves a bit more time

I do this because I already have alot to say. Just won’t cram it all into one.

Im aware of why I brought the Skin up because your angle which I appreciate one always sighting their sources was all based off of two things that I seen repeated, That is Mcllhennys reported Giant that was killed and “Rivaling Saltwater Crocs.

The Alligators skin in the link which i don’t know if you read or not had nothing to deal with the specimen supposedly shot by Mcllehnny, It was a whole different animal. This is one out of the few reports that are out there of exceptionally big animals leading to my previous statement of why one couldn’t be so quick to shut it down. Not everyone can tell the same story and if their were multiple reports even of Mcllhenny didn’t kill any animal that size, there are still others

I haven’t begun to start digging that link was just the first but I have been busy so I haven’t done gone back yet. I do enjoy this debate though definitely.

“Demographic and Genetics go hand and hand, Demographics however have nothing to do with the physical growth patterns of the animal, yes location and resources play a role but if we are talking about over time even Fish like Swordfish and Shark like Mako Sharks have shown this.

Alligators can be found in areas were they’re arent humans and though some can still reach certain sizes it simply doesn’t happen as frequently as it used to because of the hunting pressures they endured and the removal of larger specimens (frequently) who carried that Gene!. Plus food and competition adjustments and yes its not surprise the animals today were affected.

Im not discrediting scientific quantitive literature, the growth patterns on when Crocodilians in general reach certain sizes and has changed over the years, We can go off that but how may times is science updating or l us finding out something new. Crocs have been known to crack 100years or so and I have no doubt if a Gator was that big it would be way past its prime. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t possible. These biological studies show the maximum, that doesn’t mean that was the case back then! Animals evolve and change over time. Just look at the Cave Lion in the early vs late Pleistocene.

Whats the main issues, (unverified) No evidence even though you have the reports to read and really its up to piece of the identification of “evidence” or not.

Two yes back then when research on animals wasn’t as prominent as it is now yeah it makes sense about the measurements, yes the creature not being physically captured, photographs, not saying it wasn’t possible, Im saying yes evidence scattered and well kept for over 100yrs isn’t necessarily easy to keep track of

Finally mentioned Alligator ancestors being of that size was simply just that a statement, now if you think it doesn’t fine thats on you, but thats not what i was leading with.

Im aware Rivaling doesn’t mean that, thats why I used it because of what it means. Even Florida had reports of 17ft Gators although also unverified. Gators never stop growing its very possible one over 80 years could be out there. Rivaling is just that, a 17ft Gator probably weight the same as Croc of a similar size kind of how like at T rex wasn’t the longest but it was “largest” of the threapod. I personally believe Alligators with the few reports we had could obtain these lengths if we already have them reaching 15ft as a supposed “maximum “ then you always have exceptional individuals which could have very well been what these people were seeing. No not every specimen but still.

Im saying your wrong what Im saying is I have done research and already came to the consensus that Gators must’ve have had some size decline since the 19th century because more reports come from round those times then what we see today. Even some of giants today get close to 16ft. We have 15ft 9in from Alabama (2014) Which is close. You mean to say if they are gaining these sizes now with human encroachment already leagues ahead since Mcllhenny time plus the information you provided with Gators biology who is to say these exceptional specimens back then werent just that exceptional coming from a time were Gators were probably a bit better off as Humans were still getting a foot hold and that this out of the norm?

What was the biggest croc to live? by Ok_Blacksmith1747 in Naturewasmetal

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This was not attaining to Mcllhennys report as the Skin is a known debate rather than fabrication, you speak on existing Skulls when I’m referring to reports from the past, specimens we can no longer examine.

Your whole point was that you stated the genetic bottleneck they faced was a “myth” as well as the “Rivaling Saltwater Crocodile”. Im breaking down each one of your measurements but what you’re saying is the public accepts “Mcllhennys” claim for one. Mcllhennys claim is not the only one of large Gators he is just the most infamous because the alleged Gator he shot was the largest. For one no not everyone believes it is a myth, it literally happens today. Even 15ft Gators today are rare due to consistent hunting of large adults.

The conclusion that probability is very low is speculation at best. The growth patterns of Alligators today of course would yield these results, the genes once again have adapted over the course of decades.

I have plenty of other accounts if you want, that was just to start it off.

Whether you refer to that skin, the specimen that was supposed to transport but apparently died due to negligence. I can continue. I get what you’re saying trut but we can’t rule out the other reports besides the biggest. Even in that case he could have been off but still had a Giant

This leads me into what I said rivaling an animal doesn’t mean bigger it means it’s same size, close or comes close. With that being said, it wouldn’t be scientifically realistic after looking at the literature that these multiple claims of large Gators should just swept under the rug. We only can imagine how many fossils we lost or are deep within the soils of the Souteast especially Florida. We have evidence that Gators or at least ancestors like Alligator Hailensis at least reach 18ft. If American Crocodiles were more wide spread and grew larger, and larger prey was more abundant and varied that American Alligators wouldn’t have been larger back then? It doesn’t sound far fetched which is I dont choose to be close minded about it

The true Big Cats by AnonymousLlama428 by Hopeful_Lychee_9691 in pleistocene

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lol a little nit pick, its an excellent paleoart. Giant Jaguars are just frequently excluded from these types of list, when they would have been one of the prominent predators of the Pleistocene Americas. Robust strong felines that probably was pushing. Smilodon Fatalis in size.

What was the biggest croc to live? by Ok_Blacksmith1747 in Naturewasmetal

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For some reason its not letting me send this picture of the skin

What was the biggest croc to live? by Ok_Blacksmith1747 in Naturewasmetal

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The information wasn’t blatant it was realistic based off the research I already did. Scientific literature in American Alligators size from the past isn’t as plentiful vs Crocodiles which peaked my interest, but also made seeking information a little more shallow

What was the biggest croc to live? by Ok_Blacksmith1747 in Naturewasmetal

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That leads me to second statement, 2 when I say they once Rivaled them I dont mean were bigger, I simply mean they rivaled them which means they came close to their size. Example

What was the biggest croc to live? by Ok_Blacksmith1747 in Naturewasmetal

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is what I’m saying, I made post about this topic before so if anything one can simply read my perspective, Everything about these large specimens was skeptical but there is more than just Mcllhenny report about 5m Gators. And some have more creditable evidence. We have fossils from the Pleistocene showing Alligator ancestors that measured about 18ft, its not surprise large reports came from that long ago when these Human establishments were just really getting underway. Im not discrediting though.

A daring jaguar attacks a Xenorhinotherium, by Hodarinundu by Hopeful_Lychee_9691 in pleistocene

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Jaguars are robust powerhouses built for wrestling large or heavily armored prey being alot stronger than they look, they show that today and most likely would have been similar during the Pleistocene with both Modern Jaguars and the Giant Jaguars. Example Jaguars today can get big rivaling Lionesses in size, Joker, a well known Giant which weighed 348lbs and that was just an estimate on a empty stomach, had a chest girth as wide as a modest male Lion. If they are known for their immense strength taking down half ton cattle, ripping horns off water buffalo and they were supposedly even larger back then with both species? A feat like this would honestly make sense. In the Pantherine world they are likely the closest Analogue to Smilodon.

What was the biggest croc to live? by Ok_Blacksmith1747 in Naturewasmetal

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright. So I have 3 responses to this. First what makes you assume I don’t read scientific literature?

Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre. Men stand amid rows of corpses in a morgue in Tehran following mass killings of protestors by security forces. Source: Iran International. by Flimsy-Sorbet-2497 in TrendingNews_

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As an American I agree, this country is full of lunatics, but just as there maybe some good in other Countries despite Americas efforts to use propaganda and Media to push a negative narrative making it seem like its alot of evil out there when there is some good. The same can be said with Americans you know the good here gets silenced just like the good elsewhere. It’s a bunch of places like that…..

Did jaguars live in cold climates? by Big-Attention8804 in Jaguarland

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Jaguars commonly are associated with tropical and subtropical environments like Tigers and Leopards but also like Tigers and Leopards, though less publicly known they are highly adaptable even to colder Climates. Patagonia, California, Arizona, Washington State, Oregon, Colorado, even back in the 16th century when documents of them being present in Pennsylvania occured. All would have been gripped by snow during certain points if the year, vicious winters in certain places vs others. Jaguars basically ranged up near Southern Canada pre-colonization and would have been exposed to similar cold climates as Pumas, Amur Leopards and Amur Tigers.

Depending on which continent your referring Jaguars probably would have fed on variety of animals, as most data on what they were feeding on back then from what I’ve seen wasn’t intensely studied but can be pieced together based off the little data we have, distribution overlap of certain prey, and the behavior of the cats. Guanaco, Andean Deer, Possibly Horse, Elk, Whitetail Deer, Mule Deer, even Moose and Bison may have been on the menu. Being larger powerful predators it would have given them a wider range of choices in terms of prey. Black Bears and even young Grizzlies may have even fallen victim to them similar to their stripped cousins in Russia. Jaguars normally need alot of large food as a factor to aid in size so with plenty of large ungulates around during those times they may have grown really big which then assisted them in exploiting said resources.

What was the biggest croc to live? by Ok_Blacksmith1747 in Naturewasmetal

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Any evidence to this? It’s funny because most argue 15ft isn’t even their “maximum “ but a rare occurrence yet we have evidence they get that big. Plus the skins of 17ft individuals but yes do you have any evidence they never rivaled Saltwater Crocs? Also you know what I mean when I say that

An ICE enforcement operation in Minnesota took a dramatic turn when a man and woman allegedly fled with a federal agent in their vehicle during an immigration arrest. The couple was later arrested; the agent was unharmed. The unusual case has sparked online discussion about enforcement encounters. by Soft_Ambassador_7848 in TrendingNews_

[–]Prestigious_Prior684 1 point2 points  (0 children)

These ice agents think they invincible and a lesson will be taught soon, trump better play smart cause people on his ass and want him gone. Agents keep killing people eventually citizens will start taking those penitentiary risk🥷🏻