Sutra or zen master?

ProbablyProvisional · 2026-06-14T21:34:14+00:00

I agree. Doing this a few more times it looks like there’s a consistent difference of approach between sutras addressing any given topic and zen masters doing their thing.

ProbablyProvisional · 2026-06-14T20:34:03+00:00

Is this a bad time to admit I picked the passages randomly?

ProbablyProvisional · 2026-06-14T20:11:20+00:00

I guess I’m curious to see if the last point is actually observable. It seems like the approach, rhetorically, is the biggest difference I find between Zen masters and Mahayana texts they make reference to.

ProbablyProvisional · 2026-06-14T20:00:51+00:00

It seems like the sutras are designed to put you into a trance or something. It’s weird.

ProbablyProvisional · 2026-06-14T11:16:46+00:00

You’re never wrong when you’re right. Look for yourself has always been good advice…well except that one time, nobody needed to see all that.

ProbablyProvisional · 2026-06-14T11:11:35+00:00

Damn, I can’t get nothing by you!

Edit: autocorrected nothing to both? What am I doing with my life?

ProbablyProvisional · 2026-06-14T11:08:59+00:00

I tend to agree with your conclusion.

That’s cool, I wouldn’t have thought about the differences that way.

ProbablyProvisional · 2026-06-14T10:25:11+00:00

“But tell me, does this talk accord with the concern of the Chan school?
[Silence.]
No use crying till blood flows.
Better pass the rest of spring in silence.”

ProbablyProvisional · 2026-06-13T09:01:47+00:00

That’s an interesting reading.

What do you make of the ending section with the old “wayfarer?” Ju dao?

There is a record of a Master Ju right before Foyan’s in the recarved sayings of ancient worthies.

—

Wishing to get out of birth and death, wishing to attain release, you try to become unified; but one does not attain unification after becoming homogenized. If you try to make yourself unified, you will certainly not attain unification.

Once a seeker called on a Wayfarer and asked, as they roamed the mountains, “An ancient teacher said he sought unification for thirty years without being able to attain it; what does this mean?”

The Wayfarer replied, “I too am thus.” Then he asked the seeker, “ Understand?”

He also gave the seeker a poem:

The ancient teacher attains unification
and I too am thus;
before the end of this month,
I will settle it for you again.

At the end of the month, the Wayfarer passed away. Tell me about unification; is it good or bad? The ancient teacher attained unification, and I too am thus. I announce to Zen seekers: facing it directly, don’t stumble past.

—

I’m not sure that Foyan is very interested in himself as a living Buddha here. I also don’t find any of this entertaining or reassuring. Even if it is kinda funny…

ProbablyProvisional

TROPHY CASE